DROs for an X2

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

I've recently received my gas spring kit from The Little Machine Shop. It's a shame this wasn't available in the uk as the shipping, customs and then parcel force costs were nearly twice a much as the kit. However I was a god service from TLMS if anybody is considering ordering from them. Moan over. I'm planning to fit some DROs next,probably from Arc and would be interested to see any photos of similar installations. Anything to avoid or watch out for.

Thanks

Bob

[Eric CoxParticipant @ericcox50497]

A quick search for "DRO for X2" produced this

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=1278.0

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Don't some people use car boot lid struts for that job?  Thats as a gas spring, not a DRO.   Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 16/12/2012 10:27:11

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Ian,

I am also puzzled by the title of this thread, I was looking for some more enlightenment as I am thinking of adding DRO to my milling machine.

However, I have also used The Little Machine Shop for stuff (below VAT threshold) and have found the guy helful and efficient.

Best regards

Terry

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Sorry if I confused. I am after DRO info. Thanks Eric the link is great. Looking at the "budget" option, there are perhaps a couple to consider. The DROs with their own display, connected to a common remote display. In some of the images these seem a bit large, difficult to read in sowme positions the indivudual displays and perhaps prone to cable and display damage. Option 2 are DROs with individual remote displays. These seem a bit tidier. Does anybody have any experience of fitting the latter.

Terry I've been looking at the photos of your fire. I can't imagine how devastating something like that must be. I hope nobody was hurt. I know that they are only tools and things, and people have insurance, but I have tools that were bought for me when I was 11, and tools that belonged to my grandad and 40 years of other crap (according to mrs P). They are sometimes more than just things.

Bob..

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

I had a set of the cheapie readouts with dedicated diplay for each axis on my HM46 mill (chester lux equiv) and removed them for a better set .

I will use the old ones on either my lathe and drill press or X2 mill and i am leaning more towards the lathe and drill press option as having 3 separate display units mounted on a board looks a bit like a dogs breakfast !.

Or maybe use them on my home made tool and cutter grinder !

Decisions ,Decisions !

I like the new type with one combined display as i found the old style with a dedicated remote display for each axis was fragile in regards to the usb plugs – very easily damaged or can work loose , they needed button cell batteries which go flat all the time and have no backlight.

The newer type with the combined 2 or 3 axis readout is much neater , uses different connectors on the display ( clips in like a phone connector ) but still has the mini usb on the scale which would be protected by a simple gaurd made from sheet metal , it has back lighting and its rechargable battery or powerpack will run the reader head units as well so no button cells .

You can use this type also as a stand alone unit as it has its own digital readout on the scale but it could be difficult to see if you fit gaurds over the scale – recommended also.

There was another thread on this forum a month or two ago abouth this and there were some photos of various fitouts so have a look back through the posts for digital readouts .

Just remember that they are not waterproof so coolant and oil will kill them very quickly !

Ian

[Eric CoxParticipant @ericcox50497]

One thing I did notice about the mounting of DRO's in the link is why an angle bracet wasn't used on the Z axis so that the DRO faced the operator rather than being flat against the side of the head and thus out of sght.

The X axis would probably benefit from an angled mounting and the Y axis would probably need a remote read out.

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

So Santa came today, well ARC did.Excellent service from them again.

That's the Christmas project sorted out, I plan to fit these and my gas spring over the next couple of weeks or so. Thanks for all the feedback.

Bob..

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

Commercial gas springs are warranted for 2000 cycles. They may last longer, but that is what the manufacturers warrant them for. The main factor is dirt contamination (even tiny amounts of house dust) on the rod which degrades the rod seal.

To put it in perspective, if you cycled the gas spring once per evening 5 evenings a week in a home shop, it would last about 7 years. If you cycled it once an hour for 40 hr / week in a factory setting, it would last about a year.

They work great for a while, just don't weld them on – make them easily removeable so if you have to change them, you can.

A major manufacturer is Hahn, link below.

http://www.hahn-gasfedern.de/en/products/gas-springs.html

Another manufacturer is Suspa, link below.

http://www.suspa.com/us/products/gas-springs/functionality/

Just my $0.02 – your mileage may vary.

JD

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Bob,

I have similar arrangements to what you intend to fit on my X2. My readout box is home made and needs a software update, but I find it transforms what you can do.

The Z-axis is on the right (operator's right) side of the column.

The Y-axis is mounted to the base underneath the table on the right and seems to be well protected by the table itself and the two 'concertina' guards.

The X axis is on the back of the table itself, protected by a some fairly thin 25 x 25 aluminium angle that acts both as a shield and (because I mounted it with the top flush) a sort of extension to the table.

In all three cases I have use brass plates to link the reading head, so they can flex to allow for tiny misalignments but are stiff in the direction of measurement.

You can cut the scales to length – take care not to make the label peel off.

I will try to take a few pictures, but its not the easiest to photograph.

Neil

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Bob,

I've fitted a more-or-less identical set of DROs and a remote read-out to my mill (an Amadeal XJ-12) – the kit having been supplied by ARC. I chose not to have any splash guards, as I don't use flood cutting/cooling fluid. I clean up scrupulously after each session (believe that and you'll believe anything!) and haven't had any problems, yet. They are at the cheap end of the market, but seem to perform well and maintain positions adequately. They certainly out-perform me and my machining abilities. If it's not too cold tomorrow, I'll take a few pictures and post them in my album for you to see the way I've mounted them.

Only one thing I found – the X-axis scale had to be fitted "up-side down" as it were, so that the mini usb plug doesn't get clouted by the Y-axis table when traversing. I found out the hard way and had to buy another scale! Ouch!! Not a very elegant solution, but with the remote read-out display, it doesn't really matter. Oh, and I removed the built-in batteries and powered it all from the supplied mains power unit. Works a treat and no more run-down batteries 'cos I forgot to turn the DROs off!

John

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Thanks Neil and John. Photos would be great.

Bob..

[John McNamaraParticipant @johnmcnamara74883]

Hi All

Re Counterbalancing the head of anything?

A piece of plastic drain pipe maybe 100mm fitted under the bench to contain weights (made from a couple of cast iron window weights or other scrap you have lying around).

Some stainless steel cable tied to the head and weights.

Some self made pulleys to direct the force……..

No Vat, little cost, and almost unlimited life. (Oh and constant force unlike gas springs that are temperature sensitive and degrade over time.

Cheers

John

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Bob,

It's not cold, but it is wet! Nevertheless, I've taken some pictures and posted them in my album.

John McNamara – nice idea, I like the notion of having a sash mill. Unfortunately a similar arrangement for me would involve the weights going through a drawer and cupboard, too! I'll work on it.

John

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Have these 'DRO's improved recently ? I tried using the cheap scales and readouts about 5 years ago and had endless trouble with them, such as :-

Connectors from readout difficult to fit to scales and insecure.

Scales sometimes 'froze' and wouldn't start working again until the battery was removed and replaced

Update rate on the scales was very slow, it was neccessary to crank the wheels on the machine in a tortoise like fashion to avoid overshooting.

The 'off' button on the scales was really a 'standby' button and the battery was still being drained.

General 'glitching' from display and from scales – blank readouts, refusal to zero.

I should point out  I didn't buy the scales or displays from ARC
I gave them away to a friend eventually saying ' here, see if you can make these work, I give up '

 

Edited By Siddley on 20/12/2012 13:52:16

[dcostaParticipant @dcosta]

Hello Siddley,

Siddeley: Connectors from readout difficult to fit to scales and insecure.
There are a type of scales in the same range of values not suffering from this problem because the display is remote and the cable has only one connetor to connect to the display. I think they are called iGaging. See please ***LINK*** .
You can see here ***LINK*** the cable coming out beneath of the "cursor" box so the oil doesn't flow in by gravity.

Siddeley: Scales sometimes 'froze' and wouldn't start working again until the battery was removed and replaced
Never happened to me with these scales.

Siddeley: Update rate on the scales was very slow, it was neccessary to crank the wheels on the machine in a tortoise like fashion to avoid overshooting.
Never happened to me with these scales.

Siddeley: The 'off' button on the scales was really a 'standby' button and the battery was still being drained.
Not verified. So, no opinion.

Siddeley: General 'glitching' from display and from scales – blank readouts, refusal to zero.
Never happened to me with these scales.

Note 1: I have no connection to Arc Euro Trade
Note 2: Have you read my answer to your message I let in your personal mail box in the forum?

I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year
Dias Costa

Edited By dcosta on 20/12/2012 15:11:48

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

I do wonder if many of the problems I had with the scales were related to the poor fit of that connector. It wasn't anything like the ARC version, but was similar to a telephone jack, except with 4 wires and smaller. I had to trim the crudely shaped connector to get it to fit and then seal it in place with silicon ( after providing strain relief )

If ARC have solved the issues with cheap scales then it's got to be a good thing.

Sorry for not replying to your message, life has been crazy here over the last week – preparing for my wife to visit her family in the UK, one of our cats broke his leg somehow, had to rebuild the flue for the log burning stove ( again ) – I simply forgot

Feliz Navidad

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

…………………

Terry I've been looking at the photos of your fire. I can't imagine how devastating something like that must be. I hope nobody was hurt. I know that they are only tools and things, and people have insurance, but I have tools that were bought for me when I was 11, and tools that belonged to my grandad and 40 years of other crap (according to mrs P). They are sometimes more than just things.

Bob..

Hi Bob,

It was devastating but as it's detached there was no damage to any other building or persons. Most tools are of course replaceable but many had been collected over a long time, some I made as apprentice pieces, many I bought and some I inherited like yourself. Ihad collected many sets of taps and dies over the 50 years or so which I will never replace now and a superb collection of woodworking planes, including traditional wooden planes and moulding planes together with many other tools. I have now decided to become totally metric.  There has been an ongoing argument with the buider about problems, esp[ecially the floor.  They have now decided to dig out the concrete floor (6m x 7m) and replace it, that is another couple of months gone in the new year

I am considering a set of scales for my milling machine and was up at Arc chatting to Ketan and spotted these ones that you have. Let me know how you get on with them as I have a birthday in May, too late for christmas now ,

Best regards and seasons greetings,

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 20/12/2012 15:32:47

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Siddeley: Connectors from readout difficult to fit to scales and insecure.
There are a type of scales in the same range of values not suffering from this problem because the display is remote and the cable has only one connetor to connect to the display. I think they are called iGaging. See please ***LINK*** .
You can see here ***LINK*** the cable coming out beneath of the "cursor" box so the oil doesn't flow in by gravity.

The old-style connectors were useless. I just soldered teh wires in place and filled the hole with hot melt

Siddeley: Scales sometimes 'froze' and wouldn't start working again until the battery was removed and replaced
Never happened to me with these scales.

I find that when remote powered they are very sensitive to glitches on the power lines especially on power up. I keep meaning to fit 10uf capacitors in the battery compartments.

Siddeley: Update rate on the scales was very slow, it was neccessary to crank the wheels on the machine in a tortoise like fashion to avoid overshooting.
Never happened to me with these scales.

There is a 'fast' option that can only be activated remotely on most scales. This updates about 10-20 times a second – I find it easier to use normal speed and go gently!

Siddeley: The 'off' button on the scales was really a 'standby' button and the battery was still being drained.
Not verified. So, no opinion.

This is so the scales do not 'forget' their setting when switched off. Think of it as a blessing! Cells should last a year or more unless thetemperature gets close to zero (when the discharge rate soars).

Siddeley: General 'glitching' from display and from scales – blank readouts, refusal to zero.
Never happened to me with these scales.

Probably transients on the cables again – make sure they are routed away from motor/control box/switches/fluorescent lights.

Neil

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Hello Bob,

I have fitted inexpensive DRO's to my SX3 mill. Would like to use better ones but these are OK at the moment. Have had them for about a year now. Only had problems on a couple of occasions when the reading bars had some oil on them. A wipe over with a clean rag fixed the problem. If one does fail to work, I will replace it. They only cost me less than $80 each.

Also made a coolant system from a car windscreen washer pump.

Paul J.

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Just spent the past couple of days installing My DROs. I'm pleased with the result and enjoyed the project. I just need to make a cover for the X axis.

[Gone AwayParticipant @goneaway]

Bob, am I right in thinking that, in the z-axis, you have a scale on the coarse feed but not the fine?

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

There isn't a seperate quill feed on these machines Sid, just a coarse and a fine operating on the Z axis rack.

In practice it doesn't seem to be a problem.

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Hi Sid, as per Siddley's comment. When the coarse feed is disengaged, the Z axis is then controlled by a fine feed hand wheel. You can see it on the top RHS of the first photo.

Bob P

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