DRO’s and mental agility

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

A bit of not too serious rambling (Hence why it's posted in the Tea Room), as it's too cold to go into the workshop.
Having just finished fitting a VFD to my lathe & being very impressed with the end results from this technology, my thoughts turned to DRO's for the lathe or Mill – or possibly both.
Have gone back over a multitude of postings on ideas, tips, methods & comments etc and the consensus always seems to be 'never know how I managed without them' or suchlike.
There seems to be many, many plusses and very few minuses from what I read. Started looking around for suitable units and was surprised with the range & quality on the market.
I initially thought of starting with a very simple one for my lathe cross slide – then depending on the success or otherwise, 2 or 3 axis for the mill in due course.
The crux of the matter is two – fold. Firstly, reasonably priced units (from reputable suppliers) often state accuracy figures of + or – .02 or .03mm. My x-slide calibration dial is .04 / div. now, I'm quite happy that even I – with my less than perfect abilities – could get repeatable mechanical accuracy to .01 using that alone, particularly as I am 'used to' the backlash on my machine after many years of use. So, would a DRO necessarily be the magic bullet for accuracy? (I'm not commenting on nice features like metric – imp conversion / zeroing etc)
The second point (more frivolous, but still relevant I think) is without these techno – aids, does having to rapidly calculate and compensate on the fly help keep our elderly brains more sharp? You frequently read articles about this sort of thing (brain training etc. and there seems to be some good science behind it), and it really got me thinking – is this an underlying 'benefit' of our hobby?
OK. industrial environments, CNC etc – yes, I fully understand the needs and benefits of the technology, but for a hobby, is what I've just mentioned an overlooked feature that is good for us?
Something to ponder over the Christmas period.

Have a good Christmas – fingers crossed for a better 2022.
all the best Mike.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

Good question, Mike – I'm half-way through fitting DROs to my mill, after doing a 3-phase motor conversion. I think I got enough 'brain-training' working out how to fit the DROs in the restricted space , and next I'm going to use the brain to make something, instead of cutting odd lumps off the material because of the backlash in the machine..

Seriously, though, its clear that eventually hobbyists embrace new technologies over time (even using mills), so its probably inevitable that DROs will become 'standard'. I would think any application of the brain will exercise it, so its just a question of what you want to think about (I think).

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I do hoovering and cleaning to get my circulation going before venturing into the garage

Not far above zero at the moment, gloves help too

Even the cheap 40 quid DROs are good to within a few hundredths of a mm, the amount of time they save is great

Edited By Ady1 on 22/12/2021 11:08:45

[Anonymous]

I don't have a DRO on my lathe and don't need, or miss, one. I do have a 2-axis DRO on my vertical mill, and it's probably the single most useful bit of kit I've bought. It saves faffing about correcting for backlash and means that marking out isn't needed. The bolt function is worth it's weight in gold alone. I went with 2-axis as I couldn't afford the third axis – my DRO is professional from Newall. I don't miss the third axis. It's rare I need accurate depths and when I do the dials on the knee are good enough for a thou or so.

Andrew

[Martin ConnellyParticipant @martinconnelly55370]

There has been some data that "Brain Training" actually does very little to improve the brain function over time. The thing about DRO systems is that it is just a different way of working that still requires the use of the brain, just in a different way.

The advantages of a DRO system is that you don't need to count turns on a handle and that you also don't need to do as much (if any) marking out for simple parts. Two of the biggest advantages are the ability to switch between inches and millimetres as required so it no longer matters what initial units your machine was designed for and that backlash no longer has to be taken into account when turning handles. One caveat to the above is that threading metric pitches on an imperial lathe and vice-versa is still as much of a pain as always.

The other time a DRO will be useful is if you add power feed to an axis. If it is set to rapid traverse then trying to count turns of a handwheel is a near impossible task if the handwheel is just a blur.

I think to some extent the people who have home workshops can't be lumped together into a single type of person who enjoys their hobby in the same way that everyone else does. Some people like to restore old machines to an as original state as possible and the idea of adding a DRO would make them wail. Some people will take the view that they will make full use of all modern conveniences as the journey is not as important as the destination. Between these two views there is a spectrum of wants and needs. That's why questions like the regular "what mill or lathe should I get" end up with so many different responses. It would be a boring world if we were all the same.

Martin C

[Henry BrownParticipant @henrybrown95529]

Wouldn't be without one on the mill, it had Z from new so only needed to add X & Y. I've decided against it ion my lathe as the cross slide and compound slides repeat and are accurate enough for my needs.

Mental dexterity? Keeping the enemy (wife) happy provides plenty of that…

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Definite huge advantages on the X and Y of the mill. Much less so everywhere else including the lathe. I think you will get enough 'brain training' just being in the workshop solving problems, mental arithmetic is a very narrow train of thought. Remembering all the tapping drill sizes and fractional to decimal conversions is enough to keep you awake.

regards Martin

[SamsarandaParticipant @samsaranda]

Like Henry, fitted DRO’s to X & Y on my mill, already had one on the Z from new, it’s great not having to count turns of the handle, I always got lost if there were too many turns to count, and you no longer have to worry about backlash, probably the best investment made since purchasing the machines. I am considering fitting some to my lathe, still working out if there is enough room to do so. Dave W

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

They are not so important on the lathe (but are sometimes handy for swapping units from metric to imperial or vice versa) as the cutting to a measurement mostly only occurs in one direction.

However, with the mill, for cutting/winding in both directions and bolt hole spacing etc it most certainly helps. The main advantage is the ‘extras’ (like developing a curved cut, or bolt hole positions on a diametrical pitch, etc) found on the more comprehensive DROs.

I use my main DRO to find the coordinates for my other mill. for such duties – the second mill only having basic digi readouts on each axis.

[elanmanParticipant @elanman]

I have a 2 axis on my lathe and a 3 axis on my mill, I would not be without either of them.

On a lathe to get the best out of it you do need one with tool tables on and a good QCTP with a fair few tool holders. That way you can change tools, tell the DRO which tool you are using and away you go, once it's all setup. Very useful if you are working on a job that you need ten of.

Others have said what's good to have on a mill.

Cheers

John

Edited By elanman on 22/12/2021 14:12:22

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I started my working life on dials, then optics & finally DRO's, first 2 were OK, obviously with dials you have back lash to consider but I was younger then & keen as mustard. Mill DRO's are easily the best to use, I did a job yesterday using 4 different datum points just to make the job easier/simpler for me, I think the DRO actually has 50 settable datums? The 2 axis DRO on my Warco also makes my hobby life easier, can't see a need for one on the top slide though, others will disagree I'm sure.

Tony

[John Paton 1Participant @johnpaton1]

Put simply, DROs on my lathe and mill have enabled me to achieve levels of accuracy and consistency that previously I could only dream of.

However just this week I needed to check the taper in my lathe mandrel to ensure it actually is 4.5MT. I made a lash up ‘test probe’ by mounting a boring bar in heat shrink tubing as an insulator and then fixing wires to the tool bit and the mandrel with a little buzzer. Using this at one end of the taper, zeroing when the buzzer sounded and then taking readings at the other end of the taper gave co-ordinates that were input into a precision machining centre. the plug produced was an absolute fit in the taper with and even film of Micrometer engineers blue across the entire surface. I do not think it could be any more accurate. Stunning really and a use of DRO I had never thought of.

I don’t think I could have accurately taken dimensions off an internal taper using other instruments and would probably have had to make ‘no go’ plug gauges and measured how far they entered the taper, then doing the sums to work out CAD coordinates or angle.

[Martyn Edwards 2Participant @martynedwards2]

For me the biggest advantage is the ability to swap between imperial and metric measurements. I'm of an age where I experienced the change to metric late teens and thus find myself swapping between the two systems, something in the brain working on mental visualisations of key measurements in each system comes into play.

Edited By Martyn Edwards 2 on 22/12/2021 16:49:46

[JAParticipant @ja]

I have Newall DROs on my Myford lathe and vertical mill machine. Both are set to inches. I fitted the milling machine with a three axis DRO after using the DRO on the lathe. On the lathe it is nice to have but I find all three axises on the milling machine absolutely invaluable.

My new small lathe, metric, is not fitted with a DRO and I have not missed using one. After a life time at work using both imperial and metric units I will happily use either (or both, bad practice) without problems.

JA

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Put a set on my shaper too, they just make things so much easier

[nigel jones 5Participant @nigeljones5]

For repetative work on the lathe they are invaluable. As stated earlier, I dont know how I ever worked without one. Mine are cheap chinese DROs, 2 axis is under £200, glass scales and repeatable accuracy to a tenth of a thou. Its only when you have a dro that you realise how much unwanted movement can occur when machining what would otherwise be thought of as a solid set up. Definately worth the outlay and you still need a brain to do all the maths.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

Newall on the lathe an Heidenhein on the mill. Would not want to work without them. Biggest advantage for me is speed and confidence more so on the lathe for ease of setting say the length of a bolt or spindle. Face off zero the axis and set the saddle stop to distance required, no faffing and measuring required.

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

I have DRO's on lathe and mill – luxury on lathe, massive advantage on mill. Not sure that it unsharpens my mind – just saves time.

I do have a belief that doing crossword puzzles gives the 'leetle gray cells' some beneficial exercise though, as well as being fun.

Here's something to cheer those of us stuck in isolation over Christmas with only reading matter for consolation:

Hobby magazine surprisingly redeeming Noel (5,8)

Robin.

Edited By Robin Graham on 23/12/2021 01:56:52

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

I would say essential on the mill for ones own sanity. Mind you there was never a DRO on the mill I used during my apprenticeship 40 years ago.
Even for basic work the thought of counting turns and remembering backlash increases the chance of making a mistake. Let alone the convenience of the divide by two function for centre finding. There are still enough mental challenges in the hobby outside this.

I agree a luxury on the lathe, I don't have one fitted.

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I'm quite glad to hear these opinions as I have thought something similar; DRO on the mill has enabled me to make better items to a greater accuracy with less wastage. However I've really ummed and ahhhed about fitting one to the lathe as its so convenient to just check my work with a vernier or mic.

The tip I got from this website with regards to measurements on the lathe is how much easier it is with a left handed digital caliper; diameters can be checked far more easily even though I am right handed!

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Really interesting comments from you all. Thank You.

After examining the mind-numbing array of rubbish on TV over the festive season (the term rubbish does not apply the latest AArdman Shawn the Sheep film though), I think I will continue to sharpen my ever dulling brain by planning the XY conversion to the Mill in the New Year. You've convinced me!

All the best. Mike

[JAParticipant @ja]

Posted by Jon Lawes on 23/12/2021 08:50:53:

The tip I got from this website with regards to measurements on the lathe is how much easier it is with a left handed digital caliper; diameters can be checked far more easily even though I am right handed!

Left handed digital calipers??

I have a feeling I've missed a "trick" here.

JA

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