DRO Origin Setting

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for the clarification, Pete

… Much appreciated.

MichaelG.

[Marcel JolinonParticipant @marceljolinon76204]

The unit is a Sino SDS3MS

I have spent the last week searching the internet for a better manual and have downloads 4 different PDF’s but none mention resetting to factory defaults. Information on how to do this appears to be non-existent. I have one with an explanation for setting segmented and Linear compensation, I am still working on that.

When I first entered the setup there was an option to turn beep on and off; likewise there was the set-up options for the Z axis. as the unit is supposed to be able to integrate the cross slide and compound slide I thought the addition of the Z axis may be advantageous. If I did not use that function I had been exploring the possibility of using the Z axis for hole depth in the tailstock, all to be decided upon in the future. First I intended to get the main axes working and learn how to use the unit.

I set the resolutions for the X & Y axes and left Z blank. I also set the direction, Machine type, left compensation as linear, not sure what was meant by segmented error but assumed that this was for rotary encoders. Again I left RAS X & Y as they were.

Brightness was left, but I have been able to change it. That was followed by the option to turn the buzzer off, I left it on, but the option has now disappeared. I brought the unit indoors but the beeping got me into trouble with SWMBO.

Then according to the manual I should have the option to clear the settings, by this I assumed it meant reset to factory defaults. This setting has never been available. I have not been able to find the entry into this function which then requires a password to reset.

I also wish to be able to set the x axis to diameter rather than radius as the bantam’s cross slide dial is set for Dia, and I am used to this way of working.

I have found hints that the 1/2 key can be set as a function or that the segmented error correction function can achieve this but as yet have had no success. The linear error correction function is limited to +/- 1.5mm/M so is out of range.

The unit functions accurately, or certainly better than my0.002mm dial gauge.

Once I have got to grips with it all I intend to fit a similar unit to the mill. Having read the above posts I will probably go for a LCD unit, however I have never had wonderful experiences of Chinese manuals but have normally managed to work them out. Some suppliers are good with communicating others not so. Sino appear to be not so good.

I am wondering if changing the scale resolution to .5 would alter the readout, or is this specifically for matching the scale resolution.

 

The more I read the more worms I find in the can!

[peterhodParticipant @peterhod]

Hi

 

I had the same problems with the first one I bought.

As I remember there are 2 menus. One is the setup Menu and one is the ready use menu. They are accessed differently. Have you tried holding down the inc/abs key when switching on? I remember that on one I had to hold down one of the function keys when switching on to access the setup menu not absolutely sure which function key. On another I think I had to press and hold a key for a few seconds to access the menu after the unit was up and running.

Sorry I can’t help more.

 

Pete

[peterhodParticipant @peterhod]

Hi

 

I’ve found a DRO Manual that might be useful, It was for me. I have it on my PC from 2017 it’s actually in English!

To access the parameters setting press the period (full stop) when the unit is booting up.

To set the radius or diameter just press the 1/2 key and a little character appears on the left of the x axis readout if I remember correctly. I can send you the manual but can’t seem to upload it here. It’s a PDF.

 

Pete

[Marcel JolinonParticipant @marceljolinon76204]

Thanks for the manual, but different layout again.

The problem is that the manuals don’t correspond to the keypad layout, keys are missing, or with a different icon. Pressing them puts the system into an unknown / undocumented mode. Sometimes this is retained in memory, other times not. Turning on and off does not always clear the settings, thus the need to be able to restore the factory default.

I am now at the point where the right hand display has some odd function which is not documented and I can’t find a way to clear it.

I have spent enough time trying all the possible combinations I can think of using the other manuals I have found and guessing at which button does what. With no Z axis available to set I have given up and sent it back.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

On mine when lathe was selected under the setup option, there was a parameter to set to tell it whether you want radius or diameter.  One set it stayed at that setting even if switched off.

Colin

[Marcel Jolinon]

On Marcel Jolinon Said:

…I have spent enough time trying all the possible combinations I can think of using the other manuals I have found and guessing at which button does what. With no Z axis available to set I have given up and sent it back.

I sympathise!   But you’re fighting a computer, and pressing buttons randomly is risky:

• A combination so unlikely it gets past the error checks and puts the machine into ‘undefined behaviour’.
• Selecting a maintenance mode, such as ‘install new firmware’, causing the machine to wait for a download that never arrives.
• Calling for a memory check or reformat, normally only done within a controlled sequence during the factory install, that leaves the computer confused.
• Randomly turning factory features on and off.   Not unusual for the same firmware to be applied to several  models, and then configured to work with yours.   Accidentally reconfiguring the firmware to drive a different model ends badly.  Results unpredictable.
• Triggering an anti-tamper mechanism.  The computer is programmed to detect random button pressing as a hacker attack, as when someone tries the extract the program so they can pirate it.   The attacked computer counters by mangling it’s program in such a way that a clone misbehaves in a way proving in court that it’s been nicked.
• Reset is often a “press this combination during power up”, but might be a physical button on the board, or a jumper, or a pin on a socket. Another possibility is the need to remove the backup battery, so the memory eventually zeros, which the computer recognises and fixes with a factory reset from ROM.   It can take a long time before the power stored in capacitors drops enough to lose memory – 15 minutes or more.

Trouble is we don’t know.   Often as not the User Manual is supplemented by a Service Manual, but these are rarely made public.  And they are horribly complicated even if the translation is excellent.  Worth searching for on the web and reading them if you have the stamina.

When a DRO requires unusual tuning, one answer is to buy a well supported expensive DRO.

Also possible when considering a cheaper unit is to read their manuals online before purchase.  If the manual is incomprehensible, or doesn’t cover what’s needed, look for another.

Manuals are a problem though, I particularly hate those that come with the same compliance information in 30 languages, and the user instructions are a few inadequate diagrams hidden away in the verbiage.

Grrrr.

Dave

[Marcel JolinonParticipant @marceljolinon76204]

Lesson learned!

I have come across some pretty dreadful Chinese translations in the past but that one took the biscuit.

I have normally been able to work it out, but when there is a function which should appear in a sequence and it missing from that sequence and the keys don’t correspond to the printed diagrams in the manuals then real trouble will ensue, and no telling until the physical device is in front of you.

 

I did take the back off and look for a jumper or battery but nothing there. Somewhat ironic when the Chinese are the biggest pirates in the world!

 

I have gone for a LCD unit and I have already downloaded the manual which appears to be better.

 

[peterhodParticipant @peterhod]

On my LED units I don’t really need the manual as it’s self explatory apart from the passcode to enter setup.

 

I think you will like the LED Unit. Night and day.

 

Pete

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Im surprised that people with new units have paper manuals my unit is over 5 years old and the setup manual is on board

[Marcel JolinonParticipant @marceljolinon76204]

The new LCD DRO arrived this afternoon, what a difference!

To start with the manual is far better, at least I can find the functions and have made a start in setting it up.

Is there any value in setting the absolute point on the scale? is this important for setting up the linear compensation for the scales?

 

I probably won’t have much time to play tomorow.

[peterhodParticipant @peterhod]

Hi

 

Depends. If you are dimensioning from one point and all measurements are from that point you are working from the absolute point. The absolute point is where other dimensions are taken from. If you are working incrementally the next dimension is the distance from the last point.

Working from the absolute point is the most accurate as errors will not be compounded, any errors should only be on the one dimension where the error was made whereas in incremental mode (where you zero on each dimension reached) any errors are compounded.

The absolute point on the scales is a moving target and does not effect linear compensation. For the type of work I do I have never used the linear compensation for 2 reasons 1. I work over comparatively short distances 2. I only work to 0.025mm and when I have checked my scales against a 25mm dial gauge or blocks they have been spot on.

If you are working incrementally it can be a good idea to set the absolute and then switch to incremental then if you make a mistake or get distracted you can always get back to the origin.

That’s my take on it anyway. Others will prove me wrong!

 

Pete

 

[Marcel JolinonParticipant @marceljolinon76204]

Being new to the technology availaqble it hadn’t occured to me with regard to compounding errors. For that reason alon it is probably worth getting my head around it.

As for distractions; plenty; “Is that vialy important? can you tale me shopping, to the sataion, to my friend etc”………

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

How many of us don’t have, or never bother with this feature?

 

[Marcel Jolinon]

On Marcel Jolinon Said:

Being new to the technology availaqble it hadn’t occured to me with regard to compounding errors. For that reason alon it is probably worth getting my head around it.

As for distractions; plenty; “Is that vialy important? can you tale me shopping, to the sataion, to my friend etc”………

What I said about Absolute and incremental doesn’t really apply to turning, more for milling.

When milling you are mostly moving from surface to surface and hole to hole so you are interested in the the distance between features.

When turning you are interested in the diameters of features and how accurate diameters and holes are tends to be more important, for instance sliding and press fits. In these instances you tend to get close with the dro and then start measuring with a micrometer to get the accuracy you need as flex in the machine and tools becomes a factor.

With milling you are generally less interested in how accurate the measurements are. This is because your options for measuring distances between features is harder to measure so you tend to rely on the DRO as it is probably more accurate than any other method of measuring available in most workshops. In this instance you are better with incremental as there is less compounding of errors.

That’s my take on it anyway.

 

Pete

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

I much preferred Absolute dimensions when I was Milling/Jig Boring. Set your X & Y zero’s once and off you go.

Tony

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

I have Easson glass scales which does have a zero reference mark in the centre and an offset from this reference can be stored in case of power failure. (But never used it)

https://www.toolpros.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/EASSON-ES-8A-DRO-user-manual.pdf  ,Page 20

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

I must admit I have never even thought in absolute / incremental terms, as I prefer to work from datum points or edges, so just set to those and press the appropriate ‘0’ buttons.

My DRO set on the mill is a Machine-DRO one, is reasonably easy to use although switching between inches and mm seems to need the thing switching off, pasuing then switching on again. (On the unit, not the mains socket.) Nor have I really explored its funtcions beyond straight meausurements.

However, its operating manual is clearly-written and makes sense! So perhaps I have missed something in the book, about that units-conversion.

.

Electronci equipment should not be so enclosed it may overheat, but I have draped a sheet of ‘Cellophane’ or similar loosely over the DRO unit to protect it from dirt including my oily fingers. (The workshop calculator is in a Polythene bag for the same reason.)

.

Pete –

I am a bit puzzled by:

 With milling you are generally less interested in how accurate the measurements are.

Umm, I am! My model-engineering will never win prizes but I do like bolt-holes to match, square bits to be square and sliding bits to slide. Essentially there should be no difference in accuracy between absolute and incremental settings; but on the odd occasions I create real drawing I always use absolute dimensioning unless another approach is better… so not often.  (Accuracy or precision? I never remember the difference.)

If Hole B is 1.00″ from Hole A which is 0.25 from the edge, I move the work to the indicated 0.25″ then 1.25″ , from the edge. Not 0.25″ then set the indicator to 0.000 and move 1.00″ from there, whether dial or digits. Either way, A and B are still 1.00″ apart. If they aren’t it’s ‘cos I’ve cocked it up, not by the technique being wrong.

There are times when Hole A (or B) should be the datum, particularly in rotary-table work, but those are not common.

 

I believe we need consider how we use the DRO (or dials!) with respect to the drawings we are using.

I suspect most model-engineers work from purchased drawings for their main projects, and these may influence the choice of DRO use. The dimension styles on older designs can be poor, with all sorts of chains (incremental in a bad way), back-and-forth dimensioning, umpteen-sixtyfourths-inches even for wholly-turned parts, and no datum edge or corner selected for millers’ convenience.

I gather some people resort to re-drawing the thing so it is dimensioned correctly for their methods of making. This is fine and can flush out original errors, but adds another miscalculation risk layer so needs considerable care.

So there may be occasions when the absolute / incremental argument is not very helpful; and then it is to the machinist’s judgement how to approach the work.

In the end we hope the different components unite and work properly. Holes A and B in one part should match their other-halves in the other part straight off the mill; the DRO system should help us achieve their blissful union!

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

I generally work to the principle of “Set up in Abs, Work in Inc”

– because it’s easier to preserve a datum if you are undertaking more than one op. per setting

– for multiple ops. it’s usually easier and more reliable to use ABS to layout / find the ‘start positions’, and then INC to define the individual ‘interventions’ / cuts / interstices, etc..

I might even use the SDM function if necessary.

It depends how one works – without wishing to digress too far, I’m still learning how to sequence my work to make most economical use of workshop time – I think the way in which one uses a DRO has much to do with this.

When I first started I’d have an edge-finder out every 5 minutes – one of the current ‘bees-in-my-own-bonnet’ is to get as much done at one setting as I possibly can..

[peterhodParticipant @peterhod]

Hi Nigel

 

You said you are puzzled when I said.

“With milling you are generally less interested in how accurate the measurements are.”

When I said this I was commenting on how you trust the DRO in the two different scenarios of turning and milling.

When I am turning and have turned a diameter of 25mm for example and I want to then reduce the last 20mm of the shaft to 18mm I set the diameter of the shaft on the DRO to 25mm. I would not then just move the tool in to 18mm on the dro and expect that the shaft would then be exactly 18.000mm if I powered into the end of the shaft. This is because of deflection of the tool, bending in the lathe, play in the bearings, pressure on the tool, carbide or HSS etc. Depth of cut etc. All these things come into play. I would use the dro to get within maybe 0.2mm and check the diameter with a micrometer and go from there.

With the mill, I would use the DRO to exactly move to the next hole or surface 7mm away without thinking about it as the DRO is the most accurate way for me to do that. The forces on the tool are different in general so working with a DRO on the lathe and mill are subtly different.

I always work to 1 thou or 0.0254mm or  1/2 thou with interference fits.

I hope you see what I am getting at now.

I always work to close tolerances whether I need to or not. You never know when it’s going to come back and bite you. Hence my comment about compounded errors something others might not have thought of.

Pete

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