Drill Sharpening Jigs – Advice please.

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

When you first start with Dave’s method, some find it helps if you scribe a line across the tool rest at the correct angle for sharpening, it aid getting the angles equal. Ian S C

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

I wonder whether it is worthwhile sharpening drills 3mm and under. Buying in packs of five drills it is not time/cost effective to waste time sharpening them.

Bigger drills of course will be cost effective.

My drill sharpening machine is a ‘Meteor’ of Swiss origin, I doubt it is made today.

This will take drills from 3mm to about 20mm parallel shank, limited by the length of the groove on the bar and micrometer stop.

Below 3mm I sharpen by hand and eye, or just replace it!

 

Clive

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

Re the original post – As I did not find anything that suited me I made my own jig and it features in MEW176 &177.

 

Regards

John Shepherd

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

Sorry for duplicate post the site was so slow I thought nothing had happened first time.

 

Regards

John Shepherd

Edited By John Shepherd 1 on 24/08/2011 16:48:29

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Clive,

As a decent quality 3mm drill is about 3 Quid, I think the answer is yes. As for number drills, smaller than No30 (about 3mm) are over 9 each, the answer is even more yes.

chriStephens

 

[Steve WanParticipant @stevewan33894]

Hi John

 

Sorry for the late reply! I got a solution just for that…it will be good to build a sharpening jig than buying as this is endless….so many out there!

 

For drill bits I used the Tormek concept to grind 4 facets sides drill bits. See my photo.

 

For end mills I made a simple tool and cutter jig with influence from Quron, Deckel So and only recently Bristol Cutter grinder from MEW. See my photo.

 

With these 2 jigs one could sharpen anything. But to sharpen the flutes of end mill is a challenge though. Also drill bits smaller than 3mm is best done using a hand grinder for better control than a bench grinder.

 

Steve

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Can anyone give me a recommendation for an effective drill sharpener? I already have a Martek and one of those ubiquitous jigs but results on either are pretty indifferent. I would rather not talk about my attempts at freehand sharpening! I know that there have been threads on this in the past. Is there anything new out there?

Edited By mick H on 05/09/2011 15:14:19

Edited By David Clark 1 on 05/09/2011 19:47:34

[Harold Hall 1Participant @haroldhall1]

I came across this thread a few weeks ago and whilst I did not study it in detail soon became aware that sharpening drills was not for most an easy task. This not only with the common economy jig used with the off hand grinder, but also with the much more expensive Proxxon, both of which I have and have had similar findings.

I have though largely mastered the basic jig but as my comments below show I still have some way to go with the Proxxon, if I ever do.

The subtle difference between the Proxxon and the basic jig is that the pivot on the Proxxon is fixed relative to the grinding wheel and the projection of the drill is therefore also fixed. With the basic jig, backing off is controlled by the amount the drill projects. Therefore, after a few drills have been sharpened and the required projections taken note of, interpolating values for other diameters will be very easy and easily measured, there being no need to rotate the drill for differing diameters as is required with the Proxxon.

First, I have to agree that the instructions for both are far from adequate, even though those for the Proxxon would appear to be very detailed. No doubt this is a major factor in the problem the users have. I do not want to sound superior, but I feel a major factor is also that many users do not have sufficient background knowledge to overcome the limitations in the instructions.

When I read the thread I decided to attempt to be of help by adding to my website the basics from my article in MEW relating to drills and drill sharpening. This I have now done and can be found at

http://www.homews.co.uk/page354.html

Hope this helps

As I was going to add to the thread I decided to get out the Proxxon and give it another try. The drill is first fitted with a device that enables it to be accurately rotated 180 degrees between edges and is first set using a cradle for the purpose. The mad thing though is that, this setting is only applicable to a drill in the middle of the range being 8mm diameter, probably, say, between 7 and 9mm. For smaller drills the setting has immediately to be re set by rotating the drill clockwise which can only be done hand held and visually.

Measuring the angle required off the very small sketch in the manual, the angle is 28 degrees for a 3mm drill. For other sizes it is obviously a case of interpolating the required values, typically 14 degrees for 5.5mm drill. For drills larger than 8mm then the drill is rotated anticlockwise again 28 degrees for a 13mm drill. As there is no method of setting these values then they can only be set visually, of course precision is not require.

I decided to carry out a test on an almost new SKF 10mm drill and first drilled a hole, without pilot, into a piece of mild steel and took note of the pressure required.

Next, I set the drills cutting edge vertically, (as I would for the basic jig) first stage above only, and sharpened it. Visually. it did look sharp but the chisel angle looked a little on the small side, rather less than 130 degrees, as did the backing off behind the cutting edges. I again tested it in the mild steel and whilst it did drill it needed very much more force to feed the drill and was obviously not usable.

I then rotated the drill, as indicated above, and resharpened it. This time the chisel angle was far to great and had to call a halt as time had run out. Obviously, the initial rotational angle of the drill in its holder is quite important and as this can only be set visually I have reservations regarding the device.

I will though, when time allows, carry out some more test, perhaps I can come up with some way of setting the angle, other than visually. I do wonder that, as no actual values for the rotation are given, has the draughtsman taken licence and exaggerated the angles to make them more visible, maybe the 28 degrees is not correct.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Chris,

 

I do not know who you are paying £3 to for a decent 3mm drill, I use Dormer PS2 drills from Greenwood Tools and they do not cost that much and are very good (and accurate).

[John ShepherdParticipant @johnshepherd38883]

As the originator of this thread, can I now draw attention to my article published in MEW176/177 that was the solution to my problem. The jig as described has now been in use for some time and continues to give consistent results.

 

Regards

John Shepherd

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Kwil,

J&L catalogue a 3mm Guhring cobalt drill (the best quality drills I have come across) £2.95 +VAT. Dormer TiN coated HSS A002 (£0.75 +VAT which is slightly cheaper than Greenwood) just do not compare! Dormer’s A777 Cobalt drills are 60p cheaper than Guhring, but I like to buy the best when I can afford it, which unfortunately isn’t as often as I would like

chriStephens

[Eric LougheedParticipant @ericlougheed54619]

Juat to throw in a little confusion, I was much impressed with: http://www.youtube.com/watch?src_vid=QbRPPxyw1hw&v=_pDitJb7z-M&feature=iv&annotation_id=annotation_667648

But I haven’t found the gauge this sid eof the duck pond!

Eric Lougheed

[alan frostParticipant @alanfrost17805]

This is a long thread which I think I have read all of but if not sorry for repeat. Guy Lautard’s Bedside Reader (That’s the 1st one and not cheap ) has a jig for grinding small drills ( 1/8 inch to number 60 ) which he improved from an article in ME (Oct 25th 1934 page 397 by Inchometer ,if I remember correctly , Ahem).

Have n’t tried it or made one but skimming through it I don’t see why it would n’t work down to number 80 drills (0.35mm ) given a magnifying glass

Obviously uses fine abrasive paper or an oilstone-I imagine for anything below about 3 mm grinding wheels are out.

My guess is its pretty similar to the jig in Howard Jones post (page 2 ,this thread )

[Anonymous]

Posted by chris stephens on 26/10/2011 19:16:59:

J&L catalogue a 3mm Guhring cobalt drill (the best quality drills I have come across) £2.95 +VAT. Dormer TiN coated HSS A002 (£0.75 +VAT which is slightly cheaper than Greenwood) just do not compare! Dormer’s A777 Cobalt drills are 60p cheaper than Guhring, but I like to buy the best when I can afford it, which unfortunately isn’t as often as I would like

 

Oeeeer, I use Dormer A002 drills for my normal drilling in metric sizes. So far I’ve been very pleased with them. May be I’m stuck in a rut though.

 

Chris: I’d be interested to know in what area(s) the Dormer drills do not compare with Guhring. If the extra cost is justified economically it might be worth buying selected drills that I commonly use; mainly metric tapping and clearance sizes.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Andrew,

First off, Dormer HSS drills do work quite well (and are noticeably beater than common or garden blue cheapies) in ordinary situations like drilling mild steel, but I much prefer to work with Stainless, as I never liked the idea of spending hours making something only for it to start rusting.

You can tell the difference, using a decent Cobalt drill, when drilling work hardening materials such as stainless or Titanium. To my mind Guhring drills are beautifully made and their all ground finish just feels “right” and sharp!

I would expect that Dormer’s cobalt drill is broadly similar to Guhring’s cobalt, but at the top end of the market I feel that price still denotes quality, so i buy the “best”.

 

I have many hundreds of HSS drills in various sets but when one is used regularly or is lost or broken, and i can afford to, I replace with cobalt . The price of some of these drills is the reason I like to be able to sharpen them, which brings us neatly back to the point of this thread.

 

To sum up, if you are happy and content with you drills there is no need to spend extra money but if you feel that they are blunting quicker than you think they should, it might be worth investigating an alternative.

chriStephens

 

 EDIT I just noticed that even Greenwood say the Guhring drills are,”NOT JUST YOUR AVERAGE COBALT DRILLS…” I would agree, but you have to make your own mind up.

Edited By chris stephens on 27/10/2011 15:33:39

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

Hi all,

 

As a matter of interest, where are Guhring brand drills made? Anyone know?

John

[Anonymous]

I think the company is German, but they are multi-national, so who knows where the drills are actually made. Probably in several worldwide locations.

 

Have a look at this thread, for an interesting discussion of the brand:

 

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/cnc-machining/guhring-drills-221316/

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Oh dear,oh dear, how the mighty have fallen. On the other hand, mine still seem to be working.

christephens

[Anonymous]

Chris,

 

Thanks for the exposition. Funny that you should mention stainless steel. The only problem I have had with the Dormer drills is in stainless (316). I’ve blunted a few drills by pussyfooting around with the feedrate. If I need to drill more than the odd hole or two in stainless steel I tend to buy a specialist drill from my local tool supplier. I’ve just looked at the last one I bought (6.2mm) and guess what, it’s a Guhring! It worked fine, so the practicalmachinist thread notwithstanding I shall to continue to buy them as needed.

 

Regards,

 

Andrew

[Martin PeckParticipant @martinpeck15887]

Hi John,

I actually own a drill doctor 500x and have had good results from it, but only on drills above 3mm up to 13mm. There is a learning curve, as with any new tool, but it is quite short. This machine is an improvement over the earlier machines which apparently were difficult to set up. The only problem I have had so far is setting up to sharpen a split point drill (Dormer A002). I've found you need to use the increased back off angle setting to compensate for the part removed when creating the split point. At this setting the split section does not line up with the grinding wheel to renew the split point. For standard drills it works fine!

[Raymond AndersonParticipant @raymondanderson34407]

Andrew, yes you are correct GUHRING are a German company. I have a lot of their drill bits and their HSCo end mills, great gear.

Chris, have you ever tried WalterTitex Drills? I would put them above even GUHRING although they are even more expensive, again Walter are a German company . so Guhring or Titex , both top notch gear with price tags to match. either or does me.

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Raymond,

Now you come to mention it, I do have a few Titex drills about somewhere but I have not used them enough to comment, but thanks for the tip.

chriStephens

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Hello all, my first post here ( doesn't seem to be an area for new member introductions, so this is it )

Is there any consensus about drill sharpening methods ? I'm lucky as regards smaller drills, having bought a huge collection in 0.1mm increments from the estate of a deceased model engineer ( a bit of a sad way to get them really ) Drills over about 6mm however are going to become a problem soon as I now live in a rural area of Spain and quality drill bits are VERY expensive ( as is anything engineering related )

While I can sharpen a drill freehand the resulting hole is unlikely to bear any resemblance to the size stamped on the shank. Sometimes it doesn't even resemble a hole

I'm thinking of upgrading my grinding rest to controlled feed and building the four facet jig described in MEW 142 – does that sound like a good plan ?

[Author]

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