Drill press vice jaws

[jon manParticipant @jonman64714]

I got an Eclipse EDPV4 100mm drill press vice today, i'm not sure if it's ok or there's too much play / movement in the jaws or if this is normal for a drill vice.

When i place a round bar or bolt verticaly in the vice and close jaws, the jaw that moves does not grip the round bar evenly, the jaw is slanted so you have 7mm at one side and 11mm on the other, it doesn't tighten up evenly, is this a fault or just what you would expect from an inexpensive vice.

[jon manParticipant @jonman64714]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Eclipse … How the mighty are fallen !

MichaelG.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

It's just a drill vice so nothing to hold the jaw parallel. A better quality vice would deliberately align to a non parallel workpiece to hold it better.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Jon, I don't think that Eclipse vice is designed to hold round bar vertically, as there is no vertical vee slot in either of the jaws. You might overcome your problem by gripping two round bars of the same size, one on each side of the vice.

Regards Nick.

[DMRParticipant @dmr]

Hi Jon, Your vice is a cheap and cheerful one but your question can be miss understood. The vice jaw will tilt sideways (against the fixed jaw) as there is nothing to hold it square to the fixed jaw on that design. If you can, do as Nick suggests if that is the case.

But do you mean the jaw tilts upwards such that the keep-plate underneath is set incorrectly. There should not be any perceptable play in the moving jaw if you try to lift it. It should be held down on the bedrails by the keep-plate.

Dennis

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Typical inexpensive drill vice with a small amount of designed in float for the moving jaw so it has a decent grip on things lying along the jaws even if they have some taper or unevenness along the gripped sides.

If you want to hold a rod vertical, or accurately restrain a round part, you need either replacement jaws or accessory jaws with a vertical V in the middle dead in line with the clamping screw. The V will constrain the jaw float so the work is gripped properly and held vertical. Assuming the part is round and without taper.

Milling vices are designed and made to accurately hold jaw alignment when tightened. Parts are assumed to be decently parallel on the gripped faces or be held in shaped jaws so the rigidly moving jaws have good contact. Much more expensive and much more demanding on work-piece tolerances.

Drill vices ideally have to hold any old crappy bit of stuff well enough not to self eject. Hence jaw float.

Clive

[jon manParticipant @jonman64714]

Thanks, i'll do what Nick suggested, a bar either side of the vice, i should have asked on the forum for advice before getting it, now i know what the v slot is for, i need a big red L plate.

I've seen a 100mm Harlingen vice that as vertical and horizontal v slot on RDG site are these ok for starting out or should i go for another brand.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

That Harlingen vice isn't really any better. The V slots are tiny and only in the static jaw so poor self alignment and compromised grip.

The V slots need to be on both jaws and large enough to stabilise around the work if things are to be held safely.

Have look at the old Nippy vice to see what an effective set of V slots looks like. The Nippy has less float on its moving jaw than is common with drill press vices so it can get away with the two off centre vertical V slots. But the jaw still floats a bit to accommodate uneven workpieces.

Or take a look at something like the Irwin Record REC414 which takes the floating thing really seriously having a non lifting swivelling moving jaw with V slots in both moving and fixed jaws to safely hold a variety of shapes. But you won't like the price.

It cannot be over-emphasised that drill press vices are made so the jaws float onto what's being held so that the grip is secure when a part is casually put in the vice. The part defines the jaw alignment not the vice body. Within reason.

Clive

 

Edited By Clive Foster on 02/09/2023 00:18:03

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

I have two of those similar vices, jaws are springy hard, then I got one "free" with the mill similar but with V-groves with this one in operation the worse of the lot. At least if I drill through them it won't hurt my feelings, I hardly use them anymore, sometimes to hold pieces I am painting. I also has a smaller one, half the size for small drillpress use, and this one is better seeing everything is shorter.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

If the description is to be believed … You have probably bought a reasonably priced set of castings there, Jon

**LINK**

Eclipse Drill Press Vice 4in (100mm)

I suggest you find a more suitable vice for immediate use, and treat this one as a ‘project’ in due course.

MichaelG.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

MichealG

Unless there are serious constructional or manufacturing deficiencies there is, from the specification at least, nothing wrong with that little Eclipse vice.

For the job it is designed to do.

Namely hold parts or stock by gripping along the line of the jaws so they may safely be drilled. Some degree of float in the moving jaw is a desirable trait as drill vices must be made to accommodate completed parts, unfinished stock and similar items that may not have both sides true.

Complaining that it won't do other things is silly. At the inexpensive end of things you have to accept that things tend to be one trick ponies. Although well chosen accessories can often add other tricks to the repertoire.

As I said previously best answer for holding round stock is set of auxiliary jaw pads with a vertical and a horizontal V slots running through the middle. I'd make two one with narrow slots for very small work and one with larger ones. Unfortunately copying the excellent Nippy set up is a non starter as the moving jaw isn't sufficiently stable to cope with the V slots each side of the middle. Actually not a bad idea to make three sets copying the sizes used on the Nippy.

]The Nippy is an excellent vice. I bought one after using one at work.

But the limited float on the moving jaw restricts grip on non parallel parts. I've seen part self ejection when used by careless folk at work

Back on topic I'm a little surprised that no V slot auxiliary jaws are sold for these inexpensive vices.

Better to spend time making accessories for what you have rather than waste money on another cheapie of slightly different specification that will perform no better in practice.

Clive

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Jon, that Harlingen one looks a little similar to a cheapish mill/drill vice that I've had for many years, although it needed a bit of work done to it, to minimise jaw lift. It has a 8mm wide vertical vee in the centre, and two 4mm ones either side of the fixed jaw, plus a 6mm horizontal one. It will hold up-to a 20mm piece of round bar vertically, securely enough for drilling in the middle vee, but not for any milling operations, the two smaller ones each side would probably only hold about 12mm, but I would put a piece of bar the same size in both the smaller vee's, if I needed to drill just one piece, as the moving jaw would tend to twist otherwise. The only thing they don't seem to say, is how big the vee's are on that Harlingen one.

I've only ever used this vice for very light milling, but very infrequently though, but it does do well for general drilling operations.

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 02/09/2023 09:26:38

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

In my view the Nippy is the gold standard for small drill press vices made to hold adequately true stock and parts accurately. Not so good as a vice with more floaty jaws with mis-shaped things tho'.

Capacity is 3 1/2" width by 2" opening with an extra 1" of opening for things that can be held via a shallow surface by removing the top jaw plates. If they can still be bought new they will be too expensive but they do turn up second hand at not too silly prices.

Making auxiliary jaws with a suitable selection of similarity proportioned slots for your vice would solve the issues you have.

Pictures

Jaws close up

Underside.

Note the relatively substantial guide plate needed to improve jaw stability so it can cope with the side V slots. Jon probably did something similar to his vice to minimise lift and making it stable enough for very light milling. Something I'd not do on any drill press vice however well modified although the Nippy might well be up to work on the end of round stock held in the substantial centre V.

Hope this provides some inspiration.

Clive

[jon manParticipant @jonman64714]

I will keep an eye out for a vintage nippy and or record 414 in good condition.

I've been looking online and seen sets of aluminium jaws with vertical and horizontal slots, will this type of jaw be ok.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Clive Foster on 02/09/2023 09:08:19:

MichealG

Unless there are serious constructional or manufacturing deficiencies there is, from the specification at least, nothing wrong with that little Eclipse vice.

For the job it is designed to do.

[…]

.

Fine, if you say so, Clive

Having used my J&S version of the Nippy for nearly 40 years now perhaps I was being overly critical

… it’s just so much easier if things are better designed and better built.

MichaelG.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Others have beat me to it Look out for a Nippy. I have used one for about 40 years. 3 vertical Vs and 2 horizontal ones. When I bought it it seemed one of the better ones at a fair price, time and use have proved it to be so ! Noel

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

Soba manufacture a nice wide range of machine vices, even their more economical ones appear well made. I own a couple and am well pleased. ( No connection with Soba or it's retailers)

Regards Mike

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Mike Hurley on 02/09/2023 10:40:34:

Soba manufacture a nice wide range of machine vices, even their more economical ones appear well made. I own a couple and am well pleased. ( No connection with Soba or it's retailers)

Regards Mike

I have what I believe is a very nicely made SOBA milling vice. I also have two of their drill press vices as well and they are much better than some out there.

[jon manParticipant @jonman64714]

Chronos have this vice with soba printed on it that looks like a record 414, it as soba on the vice but shobha in the description,**LINK**

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

jon

That Soba vice is a decent design but the jaws are essentially free floating in swivel. So it can only securely hold things that are pretty much centralised across the jaws. Put something on one side an it will tend to be pushed out unless you have a matching spacer the other side.

It's arguable that vices of that layout have too much swivel capability on the moving jaw, something approaching 30° each way I think, so significantly tapered items can be held. But with only limited frictional grip so things can relatively easily be spat out. Aluminium or soft fibre jaw covers are desirable when holding something with significant taper. But it will hold such tapered things quite easily, unlike other styles. I've seen a blank end morse taper held in a vice of that style so a cross hole could be drilled. That would have been a major pain with other types of vice.

As ever there are always compromises involved so its important to understand the strengths and weaknesses of what you have and work in an appropriate manner.

Bottom line is that designs for securely aligned jaws are the province of milling vices which are much heavier, more expensive and need higher jaw forces to hold things. Despite all the extra cost they don't hold uneven or tapered companies as well as a relatively inexpensive drill press vice having some jaw float enabling it to self align on whats being held will.

Clive

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

If you want to hole round bar vertically just put a Vee block against the fixed jaw and let the moving jaw find it's own position against the work piece

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Jon, don't get too concerned about the name on these things, the style of these vices hasn't been limited to Record. I have two No. 412 vices, one of which is a Record, which a previous owner had modified, the other one is a Fabrix one, of which there is an advert in Buck & Hickman's 1964 catalogue, but I don't know if it was made before, at the same time or after Record was selling their version.

A while after I made my last post, when out in my garage, I had the same idea about using a vee block in your vice as JasonB has suggested.

As you can see in the above photo, both the Fabrex and Record vices have used the same castings and are the same style as each other and the Soba one.

Regards Nick.

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 02/09/2023 06:52:26:

If the description is to be believed … You have probably bought a reasonably priced set of castings there, Jon

**LINK**

Eclipse Drill Press Vice 4in (100mm)

I suggest you find a more suitable vice for immediate use, and treat this one as a ‘project’ in due course.

MichaelG.

I had one of these – it was OK for the price but suffered the usual problems of jaw lift and general sloppiness.

I re-machined the working surfaces, squared off the jaw faces, and added an anti-lift plate under the jaw – the body casting was made in such a way as to suggest the designer had considered the possibility of having this feature.

It worked very well, including use on my Eliott 10" shaper – a duty far beyond anything it was intended for.

[jon manParticipant @jonman64714]

I ordered a pair of aluminium jaws with vertical and horizontal v ways and a v block that came today.

While i was waiting for the items to arrive i thought i'd have ago with just the drill vice on Monday, i thought it was secure and tightened enough, i was nearly through when either the drill bit caught or the bar slipped from the jaws and it started revolving, i now have a shallow groove on the vice jaws.

I should have waited for my order to turn up, i was only going to make a small 40mm long connector with a 8mm x1 thread to fit my 12v motor.

You learn by your mistakes, mine don't be impatient and wait in future.

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