Drawing board v CAD

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Just tried to download a copy of Fusion to try but could only find 64 bit version.

Is it available for 32 bit ?

Paul.

[egaParticipant @ega]

As a Fusion 360 novice I should not be surprised to be corrected but I understand the current program is 64 bit only.

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

I'm pretty sure that is correct – 64-bit only. It's fairly CPU-intensive to do the kinds of graphics things it does, and probably needs the CPU grunt to do it quickly enough.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I was quite good at 2D stuff at school but I find that 3D takes you to a whole new level when things start to get a bit more complicated and you add in a few mating parts

3D CAD panning allows you to visualise and sort any issues before you actually even build the part

I'd love to have more time to learn it and use it competently but its still a to-do subject until more time is available

[egaParticipant @ega]

So far as I can see this is a genuinely new piece of software so it is understandable that it was written for current machines including, as it is cloud-based, mobile devices (this seems to imply that modern phones are 64 bit, too).

Incidentally, there is a good deal of fascinating Autodesk history at fourmilab.ch but it predates Fusion.

[David TaylorParticipant @davidtaylor63402]

My dad was a draftsman who decided to retire rather than learn CAD; he may have lost a few years earnings from that. I liked tech drawing at school but never had to use it afterwards.

I had to learn 2D CAD when people started asking me to draw parts they wanted laser cut. I'm a 'computer person' so surely it would be easy for me :- I don't enjoy 2D CAD.

With enforced workshop downtime I have decided to use it to learn Fusion360. As Neil said 3D modelling is really about extruding 2D profiles to get some initial shapes and then adding/subtracting other solids to get what you want. Completely different to 2D drawing. I'm getting used to it having spent at least an hour most days since Easter mucking around with it. I haven't learned how to turn my models into workshop drawings yet but I know the product can do it and that will be useful.

The product is so complex I have very little chance of working it out on my own but searching for YouTube videos will usually find an explanation.

To give my learning some focus I am trying to design a 1/32 scale model of an 0-6-0 tank engine, and the next few parts I need to make for my 5" gauge project. The 3D model gives a lot of immediate and obvious highlighting of problems such as interference, and the 'parametric' part means you can often change one of the 2D profiles you've used to define a part and switch back the model and see the impact immediately. I cannot imagine a drawing board or 2D CAD program giving the same amount of help – you'd need years of experience visualising things in your head to get anywhere near it.

My dad was a diesel mechanic, then a fitter and turner before he decided he wanted to work in a clean office and got an engineering certificate and started drafting. He told me the guys who didn't have the background of actually building things were often sending drawings to the workshop for parts that either couldn't be built or didn't fit where they needed to go.

[Rik ShawParticipant @rikshaw]

I would imagine that people who attempt to learn a 3D CAD program have varying degrees of success. Anyone who achieves Nirvanah is going to be determined and motivated for good reason. I would suggest that one good reason is to eventually drive a CNC machine they might own.

At the other end of the scale are the interested and curious. I would say that the majority of this group might struggle to master the “dark art”.

I fall somewhere between these two groups in that I have a small 3 axis CNC mill and am struggling to get to grips with an obscure 2 1/2D software prog that came tailored to the machine. At this fairly early stage in the learning process I am slowly making progress – enough progress to encourage me to continue my 2 1/2D studies.

As for 3D? My software will handle the import of G-code and allow it to machine in 3D. To this end I have given up quite a few hours over the last year or so “playing” with Fusion360 but “play” it remains as my efforts at the moment are concentrated on 2 1/2D which I find demanding enough but still enjoyable and rewarding.

With two other projects (from existing drawings) also bubbling away (alright – simmering!!!) in the background, I cannot see that I will ever get the time to properly learn something like Fusion360 and use it on my CNC mill but I’ll keep on playing with it

Rik

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Whatever the case with CAD software, there's still a lively enough market in drawing board – related kit for manufacturers still to be putting the stuff out in some volume. Take a look at the Bay – it's true that the larger sizes of board tend to've been 'pre-owned', but there are plenty of reasonably capable new sets in sizes up to A3, and a few to A2.

Edited By Mick B1 on 18/04/2018 10:34:09

[Mike Palmer 1Participant @mikepalmer1]

For those who are struggling with Fusion and other complex packages myself included, it is worth understanding that these programmes are designed for industry and mass manufacturing. The principle as I understand it is one of designing in 3D to understand the shape, then go to ortho to get a 2D drawing. Which is contrary to those of us of a certain age who are used to drawing in 2D from the start which is what most of us probably want to make a one of part. The simpler 2D CAD packages are best for this approach

Mike

[HOWARDTParticipant @howardt]

I used 2D AutoCad for twelve years before moving over to 3D Inventor in 2000. Spent my remaining working time with Inventor, 16 years. After being made redundant I worked as a contractor for various companies with Inventor and the level of expertise was abysmal even though some had used it for a couple of years or more. I found the move from 2D to 3D a struggle but soon realised that you need to work in a a logical way as if you were creating the part on machines. Rather than start with the shape of the finished part, start with a simple shape ie rectangle or round from which by removing shapes you can achieve the finished part. By removing shapes it is easier to modify later on. I now use Fusion360 on a Mac, creating parts and drawings for the 3 1/2inch Evening Star I am working on. New users of any Cad system would probably benefit from a bit of one to one with a proficient user rather than relying on books and videos. In the past there used to be night classes for AutoCad but now long gone. Cad packages are complex pieces of software which cover many aspects of engineering, most of which you don't need, so they look more complicated than they are.

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

I started with TurboCAD many years ago when I picked up a cheap copy in a closing-down sale. I then updated it a few times, until a few years ago. It was good for 2D drawings, although I was continually frustrated by the difficulty of going back and making changes. I normally junked the lot and redrew from scratch. I did try working through the 3D drawing tutorial but found I had to go back to the manual if I left it for more than a few hours! From what I've seen at exhibition demos, though, they do seem to have improved this somewhat.

However, I then started with F360. The difference was like night and day. Easy to draw, easy to modify, easy to build complex multi-component 3D models. The big issue was, though, and I suspect from some of the comments made in this thread, that people treat it as a drawing package. Easy mistake to make – you do indeed start with a "sketch" which looks superficially like a 2D drawing. It is not – anything but. It is just a stage on the way to building a 3D model, and that is the key feature – don't think of it as a drawing package at all, think of it as a 3D modelling tool. Once you have your 3D model, then producing 2D drawings is only a few mouse clicks away. Get used to the idea that you add dimensions to your model only as a last result – wherever you can, link elements of the design together. The "constraints" list is your big friend here – use them wherever you can, and only use dimensions where you must. Create your model like this, and the ability to go back and make changes becomes trivially easy in almost all cases. You are never again going to have two components with holes that are supposed to match that are not in alignment.

I have been part of a team in SMEE that has given a number of iive video tutorials, and I've run a morning session at home for some of my fellow local ME society members. Whoever said that a bit of hands-on tuition is almost essential at the start was right on the button – try and learn without understanding some of the "why" and not just the "how" and you will struggle. That's the problem with a lot of the online Youtube, etc, tutorials – there's lots of "just do it like this, whizz, whizz, whizz" and not so much of explanations of the underlying principles. Which aren't difficult, just not at all obvious to someone coming from a more traditional approach. Says someone whose drawing office school days date from about 45 years ago…

Edited By Nealeb on 18/04/2018 17:26:55

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I would love to learn CAD properly but I've never had so little extra time for stuff in my entire life

Being knackered after a bit of effort doesn't help either, gone are the days I could pootle about til 3am to fit it all in

[Adam MaraParticipant @adammara]

Looks like I am one of the oldest on here, retired from part time work last year at 77 (gave up when I stopped enjoying it, to much red tape these days!)! I have been using computers since the BBC microcomputer days (Early Eighties) and have used various drawing programs ever since including Designcad, TurboCad and CorelDraw from the original version. At work (a sign maker) I used a specialist program which also drove a CNC router. In my 50's I did a couple of City and Guilds courses on VersaCad, which was similar to AutoCAD Never went back to a drawing board after that The last machine we bought at work was a laser engraver, for which CorelDraw was the suggested software, so I tend to use that for any drawings these days.

Had a Unimat 3 in the eighties, but when I started up business on my own I did not have time to use it, so it went. After semi retiring 4 years ago bought a lathe and milling machine, but only now beginning to use them seriously, first major projects to make is a sharpener, as I have lots of used cutters from the router!

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

Just as a quick follow-up to my previous post – I have recently started the Don Young 5" gauge Black Five. My first job (after looking through the drawings and reading the "build manual" – collection of reprints of articles!) was to start creating a F360 model, beginning with the tender. In a few hours, I had clearly demonstrated a problem (clash of two components) that DY was aware of but only because builders had told him about it. A very experienced and highly-regarded designer had not seen this problem in advance from the 2D drawings. Great demo of the power and utility of modern CAD software. Bet DY would have done an even better job if he had had access to it!

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