Doris – Black 5 Loco

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Despite having acquired a lot of "Doris" information and reading and re-reading. One topic is eluding me. Does the Doris boiler have insulation and cladding?

I cannot find a reference to it. Could she be bareback?

Any knowledge on the subject gratefully received.

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Bareback

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Hi Rod,

Like many LBSC designs, I'm sure Doris was not intended to have any boiler cladding fitted, although if you look at the examples built, many do have cladding, at least over the firebox.

LBSC thought that in the smaller gauges cladding and insulation was not necessary.

John

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

John – Thanks once more for your input. It is a relief to me to hear that.

Rod

[stan pearson 1Participant @stanpearson1]

Hi Rod

Yes John is correct Doris does not have any cleading but i have just finished one last year and did fit cleading you should make the smokebox a little bigger in diameter i didnt and have s step down were it joins the boiler.

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Thanks for the advise gentlemen. Throws up some more questions for me to pose, if I may? :-

Dilemma No. 1. Having a few knocks and scrapes on the firebox exterior. I would like to fill them. Thinking of wiping solder in possibly? Or is there any other method that may suffice please. Bearing in mind the temperature and paint finishing.

Dilemma No.2 then is how does one fix the handrail posts to the copper boiler without re-heating. Or not?

Dilemma No.3. Speaking of painting what would/could be used directly onto primed copper surface of the boiler/firebox.

Hope I am not abusing the forum. This is new stuff to an old engineer who last steamed a Mamod in his teens.

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Hi Rod,

I'd suggest JB Weld for filling in the dings. It sticks like **** to a blanket and will withstand the temeperature of the boiler (150° C approx). You could use Comsol but it would take a fair bit of heat to melt it. You might find the boiler has threaded and caulked stays if it's an old one so you don't want to risk melting the caulking again.

LBSC just says to drill and tap the boiler shell for the handrail stanchions and screw them in with a touch of sealant. Not sure how that would sit by todays standards. Not a lot else you can do unless you fit threaded bushes into the shell first and use Comsol to seal them.

I've used Upol Acid 8 primer on smokeboxes with success. It seems to stand the heat ok so should be fine for the boiler.. Not sure of the best paint to use. Halfords do a high temperature engine enamel which works well on smokeboxes but I think there's only black or red? The modern acrylic car paints might get a bit soft at boiler temperature.

John

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

John – Again my thanks for your advise. Since she is a Black 5 no problem with engine enamel. I have LBSC`s "The Live Steam Book " Not read it all quite yet. Does he mention handrails in there?

Rod

[stan pearson 1Participant @stanpearson1]

Rod

I have always used semi mat cellulose paint on all my locos on top of self-etch primer with no problems, all scratch i used high build primer and rubbed it down with wet and dry.

Regards

Stan

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Stan – Thanks for the info. Could you enlarge on the primer for me please. Is the self etch also high build or are they completely separate products. High build could be perfect for this project, If you airbrush, can I ask what thinning media you use. There are a lot of recommendations from paint thinners to white spirit?? Guess it is horses for courses. But probably will go with Johns engine enamel as the boiler is going bareback. Would be grateful to know what is suitable for reducing that and the proportions for practical airbrushing if possible.

Regards

Rod

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Rod ,

Far better than improvising would be to fit at least basic lagging to boiler and firebox .

The full size engine had thin steel plate lagging covering 4 to 6 inches of insulation – mostly held in place with boiler bands .

The Doris boiler is both oversize and the wrong shape so apart from simple practicality any lagging fitted could improve the visible appearance of the engine a worthwhile amount .

Best compromise would be to fit thin metal lagging sheets as prototype but with no actual insulation . This would give smooth even surface for painting and something to attach handrail knobs to without damaging boiler .

Optionally fit some very thin sheet insulation under the metal lagging – say 1/64 max .

Lagging , as in full size would be in several pieces to aid assembly .

Only difficult bit is firebox front corners where a couple of simple flanged plates may be needed . Real working boiler bands will hold most of the lagging in place .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

[stan pearson 1Participant @stanpearson1]

Hi Rod

If you go bare back you will not be able to fit hand rails, boiler inspectors will not pass a boiler that has been drilled for stanchions, far better to fit thin brass sheet on top of insulation held down with bands, you can then solder in wash out plugs.Self etch is not a high build primer and should only be a thin coat of acid activator and primer mixed 50-50.

Go to auto-paint.co.uk and look at there products, they are very helpfull and will aswer any questions they are at St Helens, i am no way involved with them only buy from them.

regards

Stan

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Stan – Thanks. Perhaps then reconsider the cladding.

Looking into the paint and primer.

Regards

Rod

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Trying now to source 3.5" scale handrail stauntions. Anyone able to help with a supplier please.

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

Hi Rod,

It would be better to try fitting cladding if possible. You might have to clad the smokebox as well to bring it to the same diameter?

I've just bought some stanchions from EKP Supplies but Polly Models and others sell them as well.

John

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

John – Thanks. I not aware of many of the suppliers. Had tried a couple but the smallest they had where 5" size.

Now spent the weeks pocket money at EKP.

Regards

Rod

[Rod AshtonParticipant @rodashton53132]

Been told today that a tandem pair of Black 5`s (full size) are on the southern loop tomorrow. Passing Cosham at about 10/30 am.

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