Doncaster ME Show and Warco.

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

I picked up on another posting, on this forum, that Warco will not be attending this years Doncaster Show. This is very disappointing and I replied that I felt that Warco were giving up on their customers and sales in the north of England. I believe that the various shows, up and down the country, are incredibly important for the future success of our hobby. We don't just go to see the models on display but also to review and evaluate potential new equipment purchases by seeing them in the flesh so to speak. My personal view is that we should prioritise and support those companies that attend the shows, to ensure their ongoing and continued involvement at the various events. As their contribution is so important.

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Show website says they will be there?

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

Yes I saw that previously and mentioned it in reply to the other posting. I forget the name of the person posting but he replied that he had received an e mail from Warco informing they would not be attending.

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

Just went back and checked. The topic was Warco GH universal milling machine dismantling advice, half way down page two. Posted by Mark Webster. I hope it is wrong and they do attend as I think Warco equipment and after sales support is first class and I would be disappointed if we did not have them fully involved.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The problem is that the costs of attending shows are enormous – and contrary to popular belief the cost of stand space is NOT the major expense for an exhibitor that bring along lorry loads of stock and several staff.

Bear in mind that it's not just wages, it's multiple vehicles and three night's accommodation and subsistence. Then add in several days of disruption before and after the show.

All in all, it's a big investment to bring a large selection of machines a long way and this has to be seen against a backdrop where the internet has made huge changes to the way people shop.

The result is that it is getting harder and harder for companies to justify that sort of presence at a show, no matter how well attended.

Increasingly future exhibitions will be focused more on models than on trade, but with a good presence of companies selling smaller and more portable goods, like accessories, consumables, measuring equipment and cutting tools.

My hope is that new ways can be found of enabling major suppliers to participate in the shows without requiring them to bring along two pantechnicons and most of their staff.

Neil

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

I think while the hobbyists contribution and cash flow of equipment purchases is of importance and value to the likes of Warco and Chester their main focus and cash-cow is to the commercial sector. ( not discussed this with them so I may be wrong ) so their main focus to advertising expenditure will I would think be in that direction when wings need to be clipped by the 'bean counters'

They just would not be able to survive on revenue generated from the amateur sector.

 

Nick

Edited By Nick_G on 09/03/2017 22:01:05

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

Oh dear, a real shame. Despite having not the best of experiences with Warco in the past, I was always glad to see them at engineering shows.

As far back as I can remember they always made a huge effort with an impressive display of machinery. With lathes from the smallest upto the 1330 and 1440 sizes, and taking a full range of mills including the Bridgeport type machines.

For me it is the trade stands that interest me most at Model Engineering Shows, especially the ones with machine tools. Although I bought all the machines I really need years ago. On top of all the other costs mentioned by Neil, I wonder if Doncaster is just too far North for them.

So if it is true that they won't be attending, then for me the unthinkable has happened, no more Warco at the show I visit. Together with the absence of Arc, Chronos and Proops, plus a much reduced display by Chester I might begin to find future shows a bit lacking.

[RobboParticipant @robbo]

Don't just cost in the number of days of the show.

I recall seeing at the Harrogate show big artics from the trade suppliers parked "out the back".

It must take days to sort equipment large and small and load the vehicles, set off 2 days before to allow for unloading and setting up, then do it all over again to go home and return everything to stock.

I really missed the ArcEuroTrade stand when they stopped attending, but understand the reasons.

Like Lathejack, I am not in the market for new machinery, probably all I would buy from Warco is another 5 litres of cutting oil!

Edited By Robbo on 09/03/2017 23:18:12

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Everyone views shows thru their own eys and never looks at the bigger picture in that times change and the way we shop change.
I can remember going to Wembly and standing outside for hours in a queue for two people to exit so they could let two more in.

We all had shopping lists made up over the years, literally because when you got back home you realised you had forgotten something.
Remember having to post a reply off with a SAE and wait for it to come back ?
Ringing up was out of the question because if you had a phone you couldn’t afford the trunk call charges.

Fast forward to today and we have the internet, no waiting, awesome search features to locate something from a supplier half way round the world you had never heard of.

One reason the trade is changing at shows because whilst all those people just walking round looking, they are not buying but back at base they have punters wanting to buy but can’t because the shop is shut.

We are now living in a modern digital world. I’m typing this sat in bed in a hotel room on a tiny phone and when I have done this I’m going to order 18″ of 3″ cored bronze for Monday delivery for a job I got confirmation on earlier today whilst sat in a traffic jam on the M6 for an hour, I’m just grateful that Leeds Bronze are not at a show this weekend 😋

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

The trade stands are a part of a show that I have always enjoyed but all the stuff they bring to a show can usually be viewed and questions answered in the suppliers own showroom or display area, when I bought my VMC I had seen it at the shows but I visited Warco to make a final decision and order in a much calmer atmosphere and talk when they are not under pressure. As the machinery available it often very similar between suppliers a visit to your nearest will give you the chance to see it in the flesh even if you prefer to buy elsewhere. The high street are getting used to people using it as a showroom and buying online. The models and other displays are things that cannot be seen elsewhere and this maybe what will save the shows. Many of the builders are present and more than happy to talk about their exhibit. Although I live near Oxford I shall visit the Doncaster show and incorporate it into a weekend away. There is plenty to see and do in Yorkshire so while I am at the show my wife will be enjoying some shopping and may even buy something! Then we will enjoy some more of Yorkshires attractions.

Mike

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

Certainly the internet has transformed the way many people shop (me included) – one thing you can't do online is 'try before you buy' and that is a vital step if you are purchasing an expensive machine tool. You wouldn't purchase a new car before test driving it and I don't think most engineers would stump up £3k on a milling machine having just looked at some pictures on the web. And a machine tool is similar in that a lot depends on how it 'feels' when you use it, do the slides move smoothly, does it have cheapo plastic handles – you can't get that from online shopping.

So for someone who wanted to buy a new machine tool and doesn't happen to live that close to Warco the chances are they might go to Chester or Arc, purely based on location. Or they might not buy at all.

From the suppliers perspective, the other aspect that is lost online is the ability to use sales techniques to talk a potential customer into becoming an actual customer and handing over their credit card details then and there. Car showrooms invest large sums in sales people whose job it is to spot someone browsing the showroom and convert them into a definite buyer. At ME shows it is noticable that there is no real effort from the staff on the Warco or Chester stands to hard sell to all those hundreds of people who come through and twiddle with mills and lathes – they wait for potential customers to approach staff who tend to stand around passively. In fact I would hazard a guess that they don't employ a professional sales person on the stands at all. That could be a reason why they don't see the financial returns on the investment they make attending a show.

Maybe the decision to stop attending shows will prove to be a lost opportunity.

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

If anyone is really serious about buying a new machine it is not much to visit the supplier. Warco and I am sure others do have open days as well.

When I was in the injection mould trade we attended major exhibitions to be seen there. I don't think we ever got an order directly from attending a show. If we needed to purchase a new machine I would do the leg work and visit the potential suppliers, it is only around a day to visit and the machine will be with you for many years after.

It cost me a lot of money just to get my lathe and mill into my workshop, I dread to think how much a whole lot of machines would cost to take and collect then return to base.

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Handy to visit if you live near, as I suspect those saying it is easy do, but it is a 2day trip and overnight cost to visit Warco from the third biggest city in the country, Leeds.

Warco's site dosn't list Doncaster for a visit, thought of changing my mill, but decided to stick with what I have when looking at the cost to visit showrooms.

[Dave DanielsParticipant @davedaniels93256]

I've done Derby – Guildford MES Show in one day, no big deal. Although it was on a Sunday, not Saturday.

Leeds isn't all that further. ?? It's about 1 hour north of me, so that would make a 4 hr.-ish one way.

IIRC my journey ave. was 56 mph. or thereabouts.

IF Warco held the Open day over a weekend then I'd probably consider having a look.

Didn't Warco once have a Northern Showroom at Warrington, or am I hallucinating again …. ???

Dave

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Many people have posted videos of their machines on YouTube, these vary from superb to appalling. I am sure that a video demo of the equipment that is supplied would be useful to potential buyers. Clickspring videos are excellent in my opinion, they are well planned filmed and edited to produce a very polished product, he may be a professional? but if suppliers could match that sort of quality it would be most helpful. Many of us have a phone in our pocket that could make a very competent film with a few accessories and a professional approach so cost could be very reasonable. It would be interesting to see if the virtual showroom would produce more sales.

Mike

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Try Leeds to Surrey on a weekday, can take an hour to get to Sheffield 30 miles away on the M1, no average 56 mph.

[Andrew EvansParticipant @andrewevans67134]

I was at the Yorkshire Show (agricultural show) a few years ago, idly admiring a new massive, state of the art New Holland tractor. The salesman homed straight in on me, and starting talking, while my son had a sit in it – within 2 minutes I was nearly ready to signed a PO for £200k with an idea it would be a useful tool for my 40ft suburban back garden It was only my wife who rescued the situation by enticing me away with a pork pie.

My point is that I have spent time at Warco / Chester stands at a number of ME shows, looking at machines in detail and at a time when I could potentially have wanted a new lathe or milling machine and had money in the bank. No one spoke to me – sales people were there but waiting to be approached. Ultimately the conclusion I reached was that I was better off with better quality 2nd hand stuff – and have been very happy with that decision – but the likes of Warco made no effort to persuade me otherwise and spend my money with them.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

…'Handy to visit if you live near, as I suspect those saying it is easy do, but it is a 2day trip and overnight cost to visit Warco from the third biggest city in the country, Leeds'…

​I live another hour up north… 'Boro', so should I have the wherewithal, & the need for a new machine I'd be in the same boat as Ian & I've given up driving long distances now due to back probs so visiting daaan saaath aint going to happen. I believe Axminster have opened a showroom in South Tyneside during the past 18 mo. or so, so maybe Warco / ArcEuro etc might consider opening a branch up in our neck of the woods, there are plenty of colleges, University, & training centres in our region to possibly consider 'commercial opportunities'.

​There are quite a number of 'us model engineers' in our region, be it professional / amateur to be of interest to suppliers & whom I think would love to go somewhere local to peruse offerings. I have travelled to Harrogate & latterly Doncaster but have shared transport costs with other 'modellers' so it was worthwhile, but we are now saying is this becoming 'a trip to far' & have all decided that trips to Crystal Palace & the likes is too long a hike without stopping over… we are all over 65…( ok there are plenty of young 'uns out there  )… on limited incomes, so costs do play a part, I realise that Internet shopping is the norm now & yes I am guilty of said offence, but we 'oldies still like to see, touch, feel how a machine looks & operates 'in the flesh' & I for one am guilty of spending more than planned when touching an article at these shows… hmm that's nice, could do with that, might come in handy one day' etc. … food for thought?

​Just my tuppence worth.

​George.

Edited By mechman48 on 10/03/2017 11:13:43

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

I concur with Andrew Evans' earlier posting. The internet has changed our purchasing habits for some things. Most people would be OK buying small tooling and accessories over the internet but I do not believe most people will make a major capital purchase this way. If it did ever transpire it would be very bad news for the likes of Warco and Chester as people would start to buy direct from OEM's and purchase over the internet direct from Chinese manufacturers cutting out the middle man. Their only advantage if this does occur is the, not to be underestimated, after sales support that a UK based supplier can offer. However as I say this does not bode well for UK machine tool suppliers, especially to the ME hobbyist.

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

Don’t you think that suppliers haven’t already done their homework based on cost v profit.

OK for punters to come up with ideas like open another showroom etc but it’s not their money on the line. In this thread alone various posters have said they like to look but are OK on a machine front.
So who paying to run artics, staff and goods up and down the country for 5 or 6 days at a time ?

[John Stevenson 1Participant @johnstevenson1]

As regards driving to visit a supplier I’d bet that if her indoors TELLS you you have to drive to Hull or Southhampton to catch the next cruise ship, you WILL be driving

[Ian HewsonParticipant @ianhewson99641]

Don't mind Hull, bugger Southampton!

[alan ord 2Participant @alanord2]

So who paying to run artics, staff and goods up and down the country for 5 or 6 days at a time ? Quite simply WE are as the cost is amortised into the sales price charged to the customer!!

[Bob n AboutParticipant @bobnabout]

I personally would rather see Warco invest in having good online videos of their products in action and ask customers to provide their own videos. As much as I like drooling over the kit at a show I far prefer seeing someone else with more skill than me showing the ropes on their machines. YouTube is now my first search for new machinery warts and all.

Would love to attend a Warco open day, but it's just too far.

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