Donations to keep forum free

[vic neweyParticipant @vicnewey60017]

Posted by JasonB on 16/08/2022 13:08:52:

Also interesting that the other two titles that Mortons took over don't seem to be asking for donations, one uses this forum software, the other uses the new one so can't be to cover cost of keeping the old software going.

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Why is this software so antiquated though, you can't do a simple cut & paste and if you try it it tells you to use keyboard shortcuts to do it. Also that you can't simply add a photo unless you upload it to an album first.

I have 10 different forum shortcuts on my taskbar and non are like this one with it's added complications.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by JasonB on 16/08/2022 12:37:52:

…

I was just hoping it may help build up a little Xmas bonus for me and my fellow moderators…

Excellent idea Birthdays too. I vote for fast cars , wild women and free booze.

PS On second thoughts forget the wild women and booze. A cardigan and small sherry will do.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I wouldn't get over-excited about this! It's purely voluntary. But there are significant costs, especially as lot of time is being put into upgrading the forum and quietly sorting some of the problems it's had over the years.

In the future, we may look at putting magazine content online behind a paywall as a different method of access for readers – no different to, say, newspapers that use a paywalled website as well as having a paper copy. It's an alternative to using an online reader or an app. But that won't affect people who choose to read the mags in other ways.

The forum part will remain free, it will only be new additions behind a paywall – as the archive is at the moment.

Neil

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I seem to recall the question of the "Tea Room" coming up fairly recently, and think it was stated that it was there just for non-engineering related subjects, such as would/may arise in countless Tea Rooms up and down the country. That, I think, is a worthwhile objective.

I would also like to point out that there are people, such as myself, who, having retired miss the ability to ask totally unrelated questions of work colleagues who happen to know something about the subject. A good example, for me, was when I was considering installing a shower – one of my colleagues had recently done just that. Showers were absolutely nothing to do with telecom engineering.

Another aspect, again as a result of leaving work, was the ability to have a good old row about something or other, and yet remain friends. I can no longer indulge in such antics. So "Up the Tearoom!".

Now, about the donation. My personal dislike of adverts is such that I ignore them. Completely, utterly, ignore them. I even go as far as recording TV programs so that I can skip over the ads. Hence, I never saw the Donate thingy.

I am well aware that in some situations, it's the ads that pay for the service I'm using. That doesn't mean I have to watch them. Some might ask how I find out about new devices. Simple, if what I've already got works, then I'm not about to change it unless it is faulty, and if so, then, and only then, will I go looking for information. But, you might ask, what if the new device is more efficient, or offers new features? How much more efficient is it? Should I replace a fully working 10 year old washer just because it's modern equivalent promises to save £x off my electric bill as long as I spend £y first? New features? What I've never had, I (might) never miss. Unfashionable in this day and age, I know, but there it is.

So, should I donate? Would I pay if I had to? I really don't know about the donations. It doesn't seem quite right. Paying for forum access. Hmm, that's a difficult one. Should it be part of a subscription model including one or other of the two magazines? I really don't know. I do like reading the forum, but quite how much I've learned is something else. Of course, how does one measure absorbed information, and let's face it, I will have absorbed some, even if it's only that Joe Bloggs doesn't know what he's talking about! (Mods, if we do have a Joe Bloggs, please substitutute as necessary, perhaps A.N Other?)

One thing I do like is that it can be thought provoking, even this thread!

Cheers,

Peter G. Shaw

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 16/08/2022 14:35:39:

Posted by JasonB on 16/08/2022 12:37:52:

…

I was just hoping it may help build up a little Xmas bonus for me and my fellow moderators…

Excellent idea Birthdays too. I vote for fast cars , wild women and free booze.

……"and the rest I will just waste"…..believed to be a quote from the footballer George Best

Regards

Derek

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

 

Peter,

To paraphrase the late President JFK, "Ask not what your forum can do for you, but what you can do for your forum".

I have gained a lot of useful advice on here and given my slant on other member's questions. Mostly I get ignored, but sometimes my comments are accepted in the spirit in which they were intended.

John

Spelling corrected!

Edited By John Hinkley on 16/08/2022 16:27:12

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

CHAS LIPSCOMBE, I can’t see having re read several times how my comment was related to people buying the magazine? I was merely stating I would not donate if the censorship rules remain the same, quite what that has to do with subscribing to or purchasing either magazine eludes me.

Jason, it’s very rare politics gets discussed on TT in any of the categories unless it is directly or slightly related to the purpose of the forum, however when it does rear it’s head it is allowed to take its course. I cannot recollect a single thread that has been shut down? Also there is the occasional post advertising a new business or a even rarer a product, again these are left unmolested, in fact a link to a business has been very useful to me recently. Personally I find it seems to muddle along quite well being “self regulated”. Granted it can be a bit rough round the edges, it’s a bit like the playground without the dinner ladies!

Paul.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Paul most links to genuine businesses posted by members don't get deleted here either

Though if posted as adverts they would be if they ever got past first approval

We can also easily get more new threads in the tea room than TT off topic gets in a month so it may well seem that more are moderated it's the percentage that needs looking at not the numbers.

Also begs the questing of how unmoderated you want it. Should I allow the daily posts with links to prescription drugs, porn, crypto currency, fake documents or all the russian ones I can't even read, etc that I normally delete (censor) before they even appear on the forum

Edited By JasonB on 16/08/2022 20:01:41

[Jon LawesParticipant @jonlawes51698]

I don't tend to read the tea room threads, you don't have to read a forum like a book, cover to cover….

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

Jason,

Any of the items listed in your last para are definitely fair game to be deleted, none of those subjects are remotely related to model engineering or common morals and that is taking my point to extremes

It’s the locking of threads and deletion of links I am not keen on. It’s been raised by others at various times. It is simply my opinion that while I accept this as a condition of no charge to me to use, I would not be happy to pay (by donation or other) on those terms. I have no issue in putting the magazine articles or archives behind a pay wall, I used to be an ME subscriber years back followed by an occasional purchaser of ME and MEW but I stopped because there was little in either that interested me enough to buy them, so why should I have access for free. As others have pointed out the forum offers mutual benefit so contributors can benefit in kind.

You are indeed correct about the relative number of postings between the two examples, probably also the number of active members. It’s perhaps also a narrower subject band which does not encourage such a diverse discussion scope. The atmosphere is however more of the beer tent than the tea room where the foreman chases everyone back to work, .

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

I am late into reading this thread but do not object to making a donation to keep the site running. I use a motorcycle forum and have just added another 30 days for $9.99 (£8.34) a cheap way to entertain myself. It was not until I read this thread and looked at the donate bit that I saw it, it is not an in your face pay now banner.

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Posted by Chris Evans 6 on 17/08/2022 09:21:03:

I am late into reading this thread but do not object to making a donation to keep the site running. I use a motorcycle forum and have just added another 30 days for $9.99 (£8.34) a cheap way to entertain myself. It was not until I read this thread and looked at the donate bit that I saw it, it is not an in your face pay now banner.

Sounds like a good earner for someone, has to be a lot of good posts to demand that level of fee.

Emgee

[Darakhshan MuqaddasParticipant @darakhshanmuqaddas23860]

this is paving the way to a paywall presentation, then, at that point, Morton's can stuff it. In the event that, as JasonB says, numerous clients don't contribute anything, all good – charge them. Simply save free use for those ( like me ) who have a membership as an advantage of same. Been taking ME for 60+ years and MEW from no. 1. The greater part of those 60 years oversaw without web's new innovation so won't miss the Discussion enough to want to pay for it on top of two costly memberships.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Darakhshan Muqaddas on 21/09/2022 12:04:15:

this is paving the way to a paywall presentation, then, at that point, Morton's can stuff it. In the event that, as JasonB says, numerous clients don't contribute anything, all good – charge them. Simply save free use for those ( like me ) who have a membership as an advantage of same. Been taking ME for 60+ years and MEW from no. 1. The greater part of those 60 years oversaw without web's new innovation so won't miss the Discussion enough to want to pay for it on top of two costly memberships.

I don't think anyone's thoughts on this are advance enough to be clear about specific plans.

Something that will need to be looked at is what goes behind any paywall; my feeling is it is likely to be another, more flexible, way of presenting the digital editions. Essentially it becomes a new, more convenient (for some), way of accessing the content digitally and as such hopefully encourages readers to maintain or switch to a digital subscription.

It makes sense to keep the forum free, from a business perspective the forum is about building our audience as well as supporting existing readers and subscribers. (One exception – discussion of content behind the paywall might end up limited to those who can access the content, for the obvious reason you are likely to link content and discussion on the same page.)

If so, I believe it's probable that any 'paywall' content is part of a digital subscription, so no-one has to pay extra for it. In essence, it's no different from the digital archive which is behind a paywall. There is already a small amount of 'subscriber only' content that both digital and paper subscribers can access by entering their subs numbers.

The difference a more structured paywall could do is allow non-subscribers to buy access to a single article or issue or perhaps for a period of time.

Neil

P.S. comments above about deleting threads – no one is perfect, but decisions have to be made, often quickly. The moderators do a sterling job of keeping all sorts of rubbish of the forum from dodgy accounts to all sorts of spam messages. If you encounter the odd mistake, please remember the huge effort put in by the moderators to keep the forum an orderly and civilised place for discussion, all of whom are volunteers.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

It strikes me that Morton's are shooting themselves in the foot if the install a "paywall". My contribution will stop when this happens.

Regards

Gray,

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The whole concept of ‘donations to keep the forum free’ seems surreal to me

… or is it just that they are hoping the rich will subsidise the poor ?

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I make regular use of another forum, and pay £20 a year as a 'supporter' – this also gives me the right to place classified adverts, which I haven't ever done. I also get 'supporter' on my avatar FWIW.

It's voluntary and not the same as a 'paywall'.

There is already a 'paywall' here as I mentioned in my previous post. The digital archives are behind it (for digital subscribers) as are some articles, accessible to all subscribers (print and digital).

The forum can't ever be really free – someone has to pay for it!

Aside from the limited advertising, it comes out of magazine sales income, the benefit being attracting and helping retain readers and subscribers, the argument for keeping access 'free'.

Neil

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 22/09/2022 23:49:30:

I make regular use of another forum, and pay £20 a year as a 'supporter' – this also gives me the right to place classified adverts, which I haven't ever done. I also get 'supporter' on my avatar FWIW.

The forum can't ever be really free – someone has to pay for it!

Aside from the limited advertising, it comes out of magazine sales income, the benefit being attracting and helping retain readers and subscribers, the argument for keeping access 'free'.

Neil

Hi Neil,

Morton's should have realised the running costs involved when taking over this magazine. I don't buy a car with a V8 and expect others to fill the tank.

I see an Elitist Forum in the future, one which will not attract anyone considering taking up the hobby. The funds needed to pursue this hobby are slowly being eroded away by the increase cost of materials, energy and the machinery needed to make things. Your "Paywall Fee" will be something that will eat into the Workshop Budget, as it is only going to get more expensive to renew as time goes on, hence the Elitism.

I know of several Model Engineers who have already gone over to making things from wood, due to the high cost of steel.

I also foresee the "Disposable Income" will soon be a thing of the past.

Regards

Gray,

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