Dodgy files

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

I was tempted by some files on EBAY purporting to be made by Tome Feteira. The seller's site showed photos of some genuine looking Tome Feteira boxes and wrapping but there were no close ups of the files themselves. The things that were delivered to me smack very much of cheapo Chinese tat. I have demanded a refund but the seller has refused and maintains that they are genuine Tome Feteira "new old stock" from the 1970's -80's. Before I take the matter further may I ask whether the forum can advise as to whether the article in the photograph is genuine or could have been in 1970. Thanks.

Mick

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Well I suppose they were not using laser engraving to put their name on them back then which could explain why you have a stamped name and new ones are done by laser

 

EDIT of teh Tome files that I have all are stamped but only the largest has the logo. Via ARC so can assume genuine.

Edited By JasonB on 28/04/2023 14:17:32

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

There seems to be a lot of difference in the quality of the stamping on the specimen that I have and the ones that you show Jason? And there is no name as such only "Portugal".

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Impossible to tell just by looking. Do they cut? A hardness test might be revealing.

Jason's modern examples may be nicely stamped, but who knows if the same was done 40 years ago. Tome Feteiria maybe. Could be genuine, manufacturing reject, old-counterfeit, or modern counterfeit.

Dave

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

It would seem an unusual brand to counterfeit as files are not a high volume product. Tome Feteira are a respected brand these days as the old familiar brands have disappeared. If I was going to counterfeit files I think I would be stamping them with Vallorbe which is probably a more widely recognised brand. It may be worth an email to Tome Feteira with a picture to see if they recognise the branding as theirs from days gone by. If you could write it in Portuguese they may be impressed.

Mike

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

If you've bought them mail order, which you have, from a commercial seller (not sure) then you have a legal right to a refund, you don't have to have a reason. Whether it's worth the fight is another question

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

I don't know whether it's the same seller, but this example appears to show the same maker mark as yours, i.e. the logo with "Portugal" below it. I wouldn't have much reason to think it is counterfeit.

With some makers there is wide variation over time in the marks they use.

As Dave says, how do your files cut?

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Old packaging or new nondescript packaging? I would expect the packaging of the day.

[Andy StopfordParticipant @andystopford50521]

50 years ago Portugal was essentially a third world country; until the 1974 revolution it was controlled by a brutal and regressive dictatorship. Industrial processes (such as there were) relied on cheap labour with much hand work so I can well believe that the file shown is the genuine article.

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Thanks for all the advice gents. I have emailed Tome Feteira for their comments. The files actually cut rather well! So probably it is not worth making a Federal case out of as return postage will not be a lot less than a refund. The site that Bill has identified is the one that I bought from and I am heartened by his observations. I just hate being conned even if it is only by a few pence. Jason has mentioned ARC and I see that they do a good range of these files so it might be wise to stick to them in future.

Mick

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hi Mick,

I am guessing that they are probably genuine. I came to learn about them back in July 2016 from Dias Costa – a member of this forum from Portugal.

You will probably get a reply from Tomé Fèteira in due coarse once they are back from holiday. Out of curiosity, I too asked them when I saw your post. Perhaps Dias Costa also knows as he has their old files, I believe which were handed down to him over time.

As a result of discussion with Dias Costa, the late John S and I visited Tomé Fèteira in Portugal in 2016. Here is a link with pictures and some factory footage of our day trip to Lisbon.

A bit of recent history: the factory was purchased by Blu-Dan from Austria in 2005 and you can read about them here.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 30/04/2023 14:06:59

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Just for further clarification… the packaging shown in Bill Phinn’s eBay link example looks genuine, and Tomé Fèteira normally supplies these files in 12pcs (Dozen) box as shown in the pictures in Bills link.

The pictures in Jasons link, are standard packing as supplied by ARC. They are a single piece packing. Cardboard paper sleeve provided by TF, covered with plastic sleeve supplied by ARC to TF, so that the packaging can take place at the factory. When we first started selling TF files, we found splitting of 12 pcs pack added time at our end, and introduced an element of rust for certain files. So decision was made to get the whole process done in Portugal.

Ketan at ARC.

Edited By Ketan Swali on 30/04/2023 15:17:53

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Hello Mick H and others following this thread,

Had an interesting response from André Santos- Tomé Fèteira this afternoon, which I would like to share:

—————-

Nice to see that people still like to discuss about files. Let me see if I can help :

1. Logo – Our logo, as strange as it may seem, is a shirt collar. In the past Tomé Feteira had many different brands & logos, depending on the quality and the country of the buyer: Crown, Lion, 20, and of course the most famous and top quality Collar brand. Our files were known in many countries mostly by Collar brand ( English countries), Limas Cuello (Spanish countries) Limas Colarinho ( Portuguese speaking countries), Col ( French countries) etc. But beneath the logo was always written Tomé Fetéira, and Portugal. For the last 30 years, , as the logo does no longer resemble so much a shirt collar, we are known worldwide as Tomé Feteira Brand. The story is that during a board meeting, and after many hours of trying to find the right logo for the best quality files, one of the owners was fiddling with his fingers on his shirt collar, and Eureka !! …. he decided that the shirt collar would be the new logo….
2. Attached (edit – I will post tomorrow after converting the pdf images to jpg) are brand registrations from different countries and from different periods. Also advertisements and the guarantee certificate that was put in each box. All of them have the logo and Tomé Feteira Portugal written underneath. The new logo starts in the late 80´s.
3. New old stock is possible. We have over 500 thousand files branded with the old logo. Mostly files of odd sizes: 5”, 7”, 9”, 11” etc. or sizes over 16 “, or special files. These sizes production was stopped as an agreement between all manufacturers over 40 years ago. New old stock , would however now be delivered in new boxes. If sold in the past, the boxes should be like the ones in the attachment.
4. Is the file in the OP picture from us? Black rough tang is consistent with the period. Scratches from grinding the steel before the cutting, look less smooth than normal, but can be. Logo without Tomé Feteira written underneath is not normal, but sometimes happened. Below is a picture of a small rasp with a strange tang I found the other day and kept on my desk among with my pens. It shows only the logo and Portugal.

5. But mostly, what makes me question the origin is that the logo is badly stamped / stamped twice, causing a visually unpleasant result. At the time, and until the late 80´s all files were literally tested one by one, for hardness, for cutting and for visual imperfections. A file with such a bad logo normally would not have passed inspection and would not have been sold / exported. It would have been redirected for the local market of second quality files. But who knows? Does the file have a shiny finishing? Like a varnish? From that period files were protected against rust with a kind of coating/varnish made from pine tree resin.
6. Brand copying – Yes our brand has been copied since the beginning until today. People forget that outside Europe, files are still sold in volumes of hundreds of millions. 2 months ago I had a person writing from South Korea asking to buy directly from us a special diamond coated file. He sent the picture with our logo and name on the file. Well, we did not ever produce such a file. Somebody just put our name on it. Last year the same happened in China with our Silver Bullet Horse rasps. So it is also a possibility. But a recent copy for sure would exhibit the new logo.

Ketan, no definitive answer but I think this could help your friends at the forum

————————–

Ketan at ARC.

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Thanks to André (and Ketan) for giving us this fascinating reading.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

André Santos- Tomé Fèteira referred to brand registration documents in his point 2. I have converted the pdfs to Jpeg and paste below. If you are unable to enlarge them from below links, they are also in album 'Tome Feteira' if you select photos under my name:

—————–

Ketan at ARC.

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