Do you need an oil change with less than 10,000 miles in 10 years?

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

I run a 2 litre diesel Subaru Forrester and a 1.2 litre petrol Renault Kangoo, between them they total roughly 10,000 miles a year and regardless of miles they both get oil and filters changed at each annual service, sitting doing nothing for periods in our weather causes the engines to sweat and the moisture ends up in the oil, I even run them for s few minutes when not used to get the oil back around the engine, particularly the Subaru which recently sat for six weeks waiting for the village garage to find a time slot, he was extremely busy, to replace its clutch.

Martin P

[jimmy bParticipant @jimmyb]

I change oil and filter on both my cars every year, even though the mileage is less than "recommended". My motorcycles always had a maximum of 6 months or half the "recommended" mileage for oil and filter change.

My theory being that oil is cheaper than engines…

 

Had a mate that used to boast about his Ford Sierra doing 40,000 miles with out an oil change, saying it was all a con. At 50,000 miles the engine was shagged….

 

Jim

Edited By jimmy b on 14/07/2023 04:12:47

[Alan DonovanParticipant @alandonovan54394]

Very slightly ‘off topic’…….

My ‘pet hate’ is those motorists who push down the clutch, push into gear, turn the ignition key and as soon as the engine ‘fires’ release the clutch to immediately drive off. I have witnessed this many times and this MUST shorten engine life very significantly.

I am certainly not convinced the residual oil on the moving parts is good enough to lubricate, especially on a cold start up. Is modern life that busy that we cannot allow a mere 5 second pause between an engine start and driving off to allow the oil to get to pressure and lubricate under minimum load?

That’s it ……. rant over!

Alan.

Edited By Alan Donovan on 14/07/2023 07:50:08

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

My ‘pet hate’ is those motorists who push down the clutch, push into gear, turn the ignition key and as soon as the engine ‘fires’ release the clutch to immediately drive off. I have witnessed this many times and this MUST shorten engine life very significantly.

I am certainly not convinced the residual oil on the moving parts is good enough to lubricate, especially on a cold start up. Is modern life that busy that we cannot allow a mere 5 second pause between an engine start and driving off to allow the oil to get to pressure and lubricate under minimum load?

That’s it ……. rant over!

Alan.

Edited By Alan Donovan on 14/07/2023 07:50:08

The advice given to drivers of old VW Beetles (mine was a 65) was to allow the engine to idle for 10 minutes to allow the thermostat to open before driving off.

This allowed the engine to warm up but the oil cooler was in a full flow of air I presume.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Driving off as soon as the engine is spinning is bad ! But with many vehicles now having turbo chargers, just pulling into the drive and stopping the engine is far worse, the more so if the engine has been working hard ! The turbo may well be at a very high temperature and with no oil flow to carry the heat away sealing and bearing surfaces will cook ! If on failure the lube oil can get into the induction side you will have a runaway that may cost you the engine ! Just let the engine tick over for a minute or 2 to carry the heat away before shut down. Noel

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

The boat I look after has CAT C18 twin turbo 1000hp lumps in it. Pretty low hours, around 3000 each, but they get no warm up time and have to be hot shut down. They probably idle for around 30 sec or less before having to go to 2K+ rpm (the ECU's have all built in safety's removed).

I now change the oil and filters every 2 years but it used to be only when sample results suggest it. I send samples away to Finnings every 3 months. If there is an issue with anything from wear to contaminants (if something not picked up already in maintenance) then I know about it and can change the oil and have a heads up over what else needs looking at.

[NealebParticipant @nealeb]

My motorbike with a wet clutch clunks badly when going into first after a cold start. Starting in gear with the clutch disengaged frees the clutch plates and, I feel, saves wear and tear on gear teeth. I give it a couple of seconds for oil to start flowing and ride off gently. However, this is generally starting at the top of my drive so the engine is barely doing more than idling for a short while before it has to do any real work. I wonder if the car drivers with their "start in gear then drop the clutch" habit were brought up in a similar school – free the clutch on starting?

My particular hate are those bikers who insist on starting bike, then spending 5 mins putting their gear on "while the bike warms up". Always feels to me like "while the bike is wearing out" – I much prefer to warm the engine with gentle riding until warm, after those initial few seconds to let oil circulate.

Edited By Nealeb on 14/07/2023 10:45:03

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

Posted by Simon Robinson 4 on 13/07/2023 22:33:13:

Posted by Howard Lewis on 13/07/2023 14:30:48:

Running the engine will cause moisture and carbon to enter the oil, and any sulphur that was present, apart from any othger constituent (Base oil stock and the various additives) are likely to put acid into the oil.

One, the additives will have become depleted, and the frequent cold runs, inferred from less than 1K per annum, the oil will be in a very poor state.

I have seen engines subjected to continuous short runs, and poorly (infrequently ) serviced where the rocker levers were moving up and down in slots in the sludge.

Vans used by local councils rarely get really hot, and, like Noel, I have heard of cases where the sump plug could be removed with little fear of an oil drip onto the floor.

There have been cases of crankshaft seizure because the oil pump could no longer pump the sludge around the engine.

I've seen one strainer, 6" diameter with barely a 1/4" hole open, with the rest blocked by sludge, where this happened.

Economising on servicing does not pay. The "savings". get spent on repairs or eplacement.

I've seen engines where "To save fuel" the idling speed was reduced to just enough to keep the engine running. The fuel savings didn't pay for the rings and liners needed because the oil did not get thrown up the bores!

That Fiat engine might well be in bad way beacause of poor lubrication and corrosion.

If you are thinking of buying it, think VERY carefully

Howard

It ceratinly needs a good flush and new filter, followed by another new filter

Edited By Howard Lewis on 13/07/2023 14:33:33

To de-sludge it, would adding an Engine flushing compound like Wynn’s to the existing oil, then running the engine for 20 mins before draining it, then filling the oil tank with a mix of economy oil and Wynn’s running for 20 mins before draining that out. Then change filter and add the recommended good quality 5w 40 be a good idea?

Also is paraffin or diesel just as good an alternative as using Wynn’s for flushing?

Having bought a 72 triumph 2.5pi estate which turned out to have low oil pressure, but no light. With the valve springs completely buried in enough black sludge.to fill a one pint measuring jug I don't fancy the chances of that lot coming loose without clogging every gallery the engine has. The bearings on it were all copper so already knackered.

However being we are now in a new Century with fully synthetic oil and bearing clearances that require much thinner oil and manufacturers forbidding flushing oil, there are cheaper ways to get a boat anchor if you need one.

Unlike JimmyB I had a workmate with 250K miles on a Sierra doing 60 miles a day, regular servicing helps.

Anyone doing only a 1k miles a year should probably consider a Nissan Leaf as it's clearly a shopping car

Edited By Dave Halford on 14/07/2023 11:10:13

[Chris Pearson 1Participant @chrispearson1]

Posted by Alan Donovan on 14/07/2023 07:48:59:

My ‘pet hate’ is those motorists who push down the clutch, push into gear, turn the ignition key and as soon as the engine ‘fires’ release the clutch to immediately drive off. I have witnessed this many times and this MUST shorten engine life very significantly.

I am certainly not convinced the residual oil on the moving parts is good enough to lubricate, especially on a cold start up. Is modern life that busy that we cannot allow a mere 5 second pause between an engine start and driving off to allow the oil to get to pressure and lubricate under minimum load?

I have never seen that. In defence of the practice, I understand that modern pumps provide instantaneous pressure; and those fuel-saving stop start mechanisms at traffic lights (for example) do pretty much the same thing.

I would certainly never do it with one of my old cars, but then again, I have to start my Alvis on the handle because the starter motor is broken and I cannot find a replacement.

[Bruce VoelkerdingParticipant @brucevoelkerding91659]

I live in the States where there are "Quick-Lube" Stations all over. You just drive up and they change your Oil & Filter while you sit in the Car. They are very convenient. I have tried in vain to get an answer to this Question – how long does an Oil Filter last ? The typical ones I see appear to have a paper Cartridge. How long before the paper Element starts to disintegrate ??? I had a Ford Focus station Wagon that I stripped to carry my Steam Locomotive. I would get comments that I shouldn't wait a year between Oil Changes due to the Filter Life.

As an aside, all the "Quick-Lube" Shops (there are about 3 or 4 major Franchises here) I have visited have Pits that you drive over. None of them lift your Car up in the Air. But I have heard that at many new ones, they use an Oil Pump with a Suction Line down the Dip Stick Tube to remove the Oil. (that was the only way I could change the Oil on a certain Sailboat years ago.)

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

It may surprise you Bruce that many new cars do not have a sump plug.

[Chris Pearson 1Participant @chrispearson1]

Posted by john halfpenny on 14/07/2023 13:53:13:

It may surprise you Bruce that many new cars do not have a sump plug.

If they do, they probably don't have a dipstick. Mine doesn't.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Always good tolet the engine idle for a minute or son after start up, before applying load to ensure that oil reaches all the parts that it should.

ESSENTIAL if the engine is turbo charged to ensure that the turbo IS lubricated before it is spooled up to manyn thousands of rpm.

Even more imnportant, before shutting down to let the engine idle for the turbo to spool down while oil is still flowing, for cooling as well as for lubrication.

Otherwise the static oil in the turbo, which might have been red hot just before, will carbonises and eventually block oil flow thorugh it. If that happens, the unit will be ruined.

Turbochargers run at very bhigh speeds, in some cases over 100,000 rpm, and being perfectly balanced, take a long time to come to rest.

Instant cold starts have to happen for stand by generators, such as for hospitals, but they should be monitored very carefully to ensure that a isaster ir prevented.

Lifeboat engines can start during launch so that oil is circulating before full load is applied, and can idle during recovery, so the life of the turbocharger is easier.

An instantaneous hot shutdown can result in a crankcase explosion, even on a naturally aspirated engine

This can be really damaging.

If you haven't experienced one, just be assured that it is not impossible to destroy the engine.

Quite terrifying!

Sump blown off the flange (Still bolted to the crankcase or cylinder block ); on main propulsion engines, crankcase doors blown off and stairways twisted like paper clips.

TRaking care of a machine can be cheaper than repairing the dame caused by abuse.

Howard

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Howard Lewis on 14/07/2023 19:39:41:

Always good tolet the engine idle for a minute or son after start up,…

Howard

Umm, for the opposite view have a read of this website. Includes: 'According to most experts and manufacturers, modern vehicles don't need a dedicated warm-up time and starting your car and spending twenty to thirty seconds adjusting mirrors and buckling up is usually more than enough. In extremely cold weather, most manufacturers recommend driving gently for the first six to ten minutes but do not recommend idling your car for extended periods to warm it up. Many performance car drivers and motoring enthusiasts still prefer to spend a few minutes getting their engine up to temperature before driving off, even if it's not mechanically a requirement.

Not having an opinion means I just start and drive off. For what it's worth none of my cars, or any of my mates, went to the scrapyard because they weren't warmed up. Rust got most cars when I was first on the road due to winter salting. Later the killer was usually cost: an older vehicle with multiple small faults that added up to more than the old banger was worth. Many things tend to wear out at about the same time: leaky exhaust, rimmed discs, spongy shocks, weeping radiator, dripping oil, slipping clutch etc. And if an MOT is due and the thing has 4 iffy tyres and a boot full of rainwater as well…

Dave

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

I think a lot of the opinions on this thread are based on old experiences back from the seventies or earlier. I would have agreed with them, but for seeing a torn down 100,000 mile petrol engine at Jaguar engineering 10 years ago. I found it hard to comprehend the absolute cleanliness and lack of visible wear on component parts – no carbon build up, and no sludge. Modern oils, fuels and filtration, and tight manufacturing tolerances, make an enormous difference.

However, old habits die hard, so I continue with all the good practice mentioned here, and change oil at half the manufacturers recommendation on my current modern. I wonder if it is in fact necessary.

 

 

 

Edited By john halfpenny on 14/07/2023 21:31:34

[J HancockParticipant @jhancock95746]

2013 Mazda 6 2.0L l diesel, will never get to the one year service interval because by 6000 miles the oil high level alarm is on.

And this is Mazda's way of cleaning the emissions by injecting fuel on the exhaust stroke.every 50miles run.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

My Vauxhall Vectra (I know, laugh now) had a lot more oil on it than the previous Nissan Bluebird. I always thought this explained the longer oil change interval. Having said that first time I changed the oil in the Vectra it was so clean I was tempted to put it back in. I didn't, as others have said a gallon of oil is a lot cheaper than a new engine. Both cars did well over 150000 miles. One was written off in a RTA, the other fell to the government scrapage scheme.

Back in the 70s,my friend had a series 1 Land Rover. It used so much oil that we were all instructed to pass the old stuff to him after an oil change, if it was good enough in our engines, it would do another couple of trips arond his.

[Bruce VoelkerdingParticipant @brucevoelkerding91659]

we had Stand-By Diesel Generator Sets at our Glass Plants (GE Lighting) in case the Plant lost Power. Since most of our Transmission Lines are above Ground, it is not uncommon to lose Power during a Thunderstorm or Ice Storm. There was not enough Power to run the Plant, but enough to run the Glass Furnace(s). The Diesel Engines were kept at Operating Temperature by some means (Block Heaters in the Coolant ?). Sadly, all the Lighting Glass Plants are gone in the US.

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

You are right Duncan. I have a modern V8 petrol that takes fully synthetic oil. At 6000 miles, it looks, smells and feels like new – but I change it for peace of mind and to demonstrate a sevice history.

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

My jeep swallows 9.75 L of oil and claims a 12k mile service interval – it gets done once a year, which is 6k regardless.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

I do an oil and filter change once a year, just before the MOT – this is usually about 8 to 10 thousand miles for me. A mechanic friend told me it helps lower the emissions for the test

Rob

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

Posted by Grindstone Cowboy on 15/07/2023 22:26:25:

I do an oil and filter change once a year, just before the MOT – this is usually about 8 to 10 thousand miles for me. A mechanic friend told me it helps lower the emissions for the test

Rob

I hope you don't use him as a mechanic…

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Not since he died, no. It seems plausible to me that if oil is going to get involved in the combustion process, either past the rings, down the valve guides or through whatever exhaust gas recirculation process your engine employs, that clean oil would be better than oil full of carbon and particulates, no? Anyway, as they say in the Bronx: "It couldn't hoit!"

Rob

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by Simon Robinson 4 on 13/07/2023 12:51:06:

My neighbour has a diesel multijet Fiat Panda car. She has had it 10 years since the last oil change but has done less than 10,000 miles as it’s the families second car. I checked the dipstick and it’s the correct level and oil smells ok. It’s black which is normal for a diesel. No oil warning lights. Engine sounds just like a diesel should. I was surprised after such a long interval between oil changes. The car isn’t fitted with a DPF and is a common rail direct diesel injection.

I know in a petrol engine, oil changes are needed a lot more often because petrol isn’t a lubricant like diesel is. I’ve also heard of diesels going well over 30,000 miles without any oil change. Can diesels really tolerate such long intervals between an oil change?

Edited By Simon Robinson 4 on 13/07/2023 12:52:02

Nothing wrong with that, my car gets an oil and filter change every hundred thousand miles whether it needs it or not, it's only £25 and 20 minutes work so why not?

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

The comparison – early in this series of messages – with cooking oil is not helpful or even relevant. Cooking oil is vegetable or animal in origin, but mineral oil is, well, mineral. That means it has been hanging around on the earth for millions of years, and anything which will go off in a year or two has gone.

Cheers, Tim

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