Do you get what you pay for ?.

[Eric CoxParticipant @ericcox50497]

I need to buy a set of 3mm taps. My local engineering suppliers quote £17. Two model engineering suppliers quoted £5.56 and £3.50. Do they represent value for money or are they a false economy.

[Eric CoxParticipant @ericcox50497]

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

At £3.50 I doubt it. Try Tracy Tools or Kirjeng.

[IanTParticipant @iant]

There will undoubtedly be some differences in quality Eric.

 

However, there will also be a big difference in the amount of use you are likely to put them to, compared to an industrial user. I have taps and dies that have only been used once for a particular job. I also have some taps and dies (ME mainly) that I only use on brass.

 

So I would think about how often you are likely to use them and also whether you can standardise on what sizes you normally use.

 

Metric screwing trackle is cheaper these days than Imperial and the ones I have seem to be fine – and I did not pay a fortune for them.

 

It also makes a difference to the price whether you buy carbon or HSS – and again in my view this is mainly down to the amount of use you expect to get out of them – although I do prefer HSS – I think carbon ones ‘chip’ more easily – but this may just be the ones I have.

 

By and large my view is that for Metric taps/dies I use the well known online suppliers and I find these affordable and suitable for my purposes. For my Imperial needs I have used Tracy Tools in the past and they have been OK but I did pay a premium.

 

 I guess that I would not be too upset to throw away a Metric tap and replace it – but hopefully my Imperial stuff will last a lifetime (at least what’s left of mine)    

[Frank DolmanParticipant @frankdolman72357]

     I have read somewhere that carbon steel taps are fine for use by hand

   but since the thread is sometimes not quite co-axial with the shank, they

   are a bit dodgy in a machine.  It seems to me that this trouble would be

   more serious with a little (like M3) tap, because it would be percentage

   error that would lead to breakage.

     I can’t claim enough experience to say that this anything better than

   surmise.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Carbon steel tooling holds an edge FAR better than HSS, but is dependant on what you are cutting. Perviding you adjust the hole size to suit the application you should have no problems.

 

  Machine tapping?? Got a propper tapping head ??

 

  Regards Ian.

[mgjParticipant @mgj]

Circlip – you are dead right. Carbon steel is a lot harder than HSS – until you get it hot.

 

Treat it right and it will outlast HSS.  Coolant and don’t tap under power. Use a spindle crank instead

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

hi Eric,

if you are buying Metric tapping kit, you have the opportunity to buy decent kit rather than the cheap AND nasty that some of the suppliers to the model enginering market flog to the unsuspecting suckers.

A manufacturer of Made in UK taps and dies is Lyndon, which are available from places like Tilgear or J&L  I can recommend their  spiral flute taps, about £5+vat, you only need the one tap and you don’t have to keep backing off when tapping because the swarf comes out of the hole as three “wires” rather than flute clogging little chips. Stricktly speaking they are intended for machine tapped blind holes, but that does not stop them from working just fine manually on through holes too.

chriStephens

[Rob ManleyParticipant @robmanley79788]

Another vote for Lyndon – never had problems with them whereas some taps I used to buy from the ME world before I grew wise were almost scrap. 

[macmarchParticipant @macmarch]

For those who are new to tapping may I suggest that spiral point taps are used, provided they are through holes or are deep enough to hold the swarf.  These taps eject forwards thus the body of the tap is thicker between cutting edges making them stronger and if you do break one it is a lot ‘easier’ to get it out. There is also the advantage that for some reason sp pt taps seem to drag themselves into the hole and stay perpendicular.  I find spiral flute taps very good for the soft metals.

 

Eric. I can reccommend Kirjeng.  You can choose to have used or new on most items he sells.

 

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Taps are a lottery. I have a set of even number (0-8) BA carbon steel LAL taps and dies that belonged to my Grandfather (pre 1960s) and I was only using some a week ago. I have bought various ones recently –  a full set of BA was cheaper than just the odd ones, some small metric and BA sizes and various ME sizes – and some are excellent some are dodgy with no obvious indicator price or material, though HSS seems to be more resistant to breaking than carbon steel.

 

Oddly the best set of taps I have, I got on a market for £19 – a full HSS set of three taps and a die for M3 up to M10. I have tapped everything up to stainless with them without any breakages (touches wood).

 

But I suggest starting with a fairly cheap set, and replacing the odd breakage with better quality HSS.

 

Neil

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

If what you want to tap has a flat surface around the hole, use a steel block, drill block to clear the tap stem, hold the block tight to the face by hand and tap away. Portable tappinf stand, prevent breaking the tap by leaning it over. I frequently tap M2 without needing to look at what I am doing, just keep clearing the tap or as Macmarch says above use spiral point for throughholes and spiral flute for bland ones, works a treat.  I too have old LAL taps and dies which I bought in the 50s and I still use them, going off a bit now, so great care needed. Never cut without fluid (except perhaps brass).

[Dinosaur EngineerParticipant @dinosaurengineer]

You do tend to get what you pay for . The cheap taps will be carbon steel with a cut thread and to class ‘C’ which is the widest tolerance class . The dearest will be HSS with a ground thread to a far higher tolerance catergory . It all depends what you intend to do with them .For a 1 off job then obviously the cheapest will possibly do . If you intend to use them over a lifetime of model engineering then the dearest will last much longer and give a much closer fit  over the corresponding nut.

Spiral point taps may only require one tap to be bought but these need careful alignment with the hole as they do not have the self aligning taper of the conventional hand taps.

If you think £17 is dear ,ask the price of a set of serial taps !

[BogstandardParticipant @bogstandard]

I used to use a lot of different sized taps and dies and usually bought in bulk (9 or more).

 

I could not find fault with the ones supplied from the Tap and Die Company, especially when power cutting stainless. Normal taps and dies can work out very cheaply when you purchase in bulk. Just look at the cost of 6mm taps if you buy 9. It is the same for dies, but you don’t have to purchase as many.

 

http://www.tapdie.com/

 

Bogs

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

I have generally bought HSS ground thread taps and dies as required, Tracy Tools have excellent service.  I’m a very cautious about carbon steel taps, and especially cautious about cut threads (as against ground), every tap I have that ISN’T ground thread has large burrs which make the thread form a bit unrecognisable.  Just have a look at a cut thread tap with a loupe and explain to me how that can be expected to cut a decent thread, especially in Al Alloy which I use most.

I bought a couple of ME taps and a die from an Australian supplier (I have the good fortune to live in Australia) they were a reasonable price, not cheap, and was assured by the supplier that they were good quality, they were awful.  

Be careful, and buy “quality” HSS/GT as required (i.e. not in sets) is my advice! 

cheers

Bill Pudney

[mickParticipant @mick65121]

Even the best quality taps and dies will jam and therefore snap in sub-standard materials, when I was working in industary I found that materials of Polish origin where by and large the worst offenders.    I dare say today with materials being imported from just about any where, they may be better in comparision.    If you don’t source your materials from a stock holder, ( and who does?)  who is duty bound to issue a mill cert on request, there is no real way of knowing what the material you are about to machine really is.   In the past I’ve machined HE30 sourced on-line, that came off the tool like chewing gum     So the best approach, in my opinion, is to invest in a good quality tapping paste or fluid.  I use Tapmatic Gold, not cheap, but once you’ve used it I think you’ll be a fan, as it works its’ magic on just about every material, including Ali.

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