Dissembling an old machine vice

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

I was lucky enough to get a beautiful old brooke vice thrown in when I bought my pillar drill and I would like to take it apart and refurbish it completely. Im having trouble working out how it actually comes apart and wondered if anyone had any experience with similar vices?

The large slot headed screws may have something to do with it but I cannot get them to budge with the tools I have. The largest screwdriver bit I own is nowhere near big enough and was starting to damage the slot when I applied pressure. I have seen something called a drag link socket on US websites that looks perfect but I cannot find anything similar this side of the pond.

Heres some photos, I can post photos of the underside or any parts in more detail if requested.

Thanks!

 

Edited By Nick Grant on 10/03/2015 14:04:49

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

Could you post some more pics please? As you suggest the underside might be useful, also perhaps of the plates at the bottom of the moving jaw block on each side. Unless the block holding the fixed jaw is removable it looks as if the moving block must have been assembled from above, and the retaining plates then secured to it somehow.

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Hi there, Nick,

It looks from your photo as if there is a hole in the flange under the side of the moving block. If my suspicion is correct, there will be another, symmetrically disposed, on the flange the other side.

I further suspect that those holes are there to give access to screws that hold the keep-plates on the moving block (two each side?). You'd need to move the moving block until you can see each screw in turn through its respective access hole.

Do the screws in the back of the moving block retain the plate on the business end of the moving block?

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

I had a good look underneath and after poking around I found two holes that were hidden as they were packed with black grease and bits of metal. The holes go right through the base and allow access to the underside of the moving block where 4 screws are visible with the vice in the right place. Taking these out should release everything I think.

However 1 set of screws do not line up with the hole and I beilive I have to remove at least one jaw plate to allow room to screw the vice forward and extract them. There are yet more slot headed screws holding the plate in place and I don’t think they have been removed for a very long time because they are not budging an inch. I tried a big screwdriver with a wrench attached to it for leverage and put all my weight on it while banging the end with a hammer but nothing. The next thing is heat I suppose but I only have blow torch so I’m not sure it will heat the large lump of cast iron fast enough.

Hard to see but the screw just wont clear the casting and this is when the vice is fully closed so I cant get it to line up any more.

The two screws that hold a jaw plate in place. I think if i could remove these I could gain the clearance to slide the main block forward and extract the final screws from the base.

[Swarf, Mostly!Participant @swarfmostly]

Hi there, again, Nick,

I would advise against heat – it's the screws you would need to heat, to make them expand, but any heat you apply will favour the block and make the screws tighter.

It sounds like a job for an impact driver – maybe you should try your local motor-car tyre place? If you do that, though, make sure they have/use a screwdriver bit that really does fit the full widthe of the screw slots.

Best regards,

Swarf, Mostly!

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

Thanks for the tips everyone. I will certainly steer clear of heat as I don't want to damage it. The vice (and drill) came from a very old teddy bear factory in shropshire called merrythoughts. It even has the name merrythought punched into the top so its a real one off piece that I would hate to damage.

I do have an 18v makita impact driver for woodwork but I doubt that would have enough power even if i could get a bit that was wide enough?

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Nick, I have just rebuilt a big vice and the 2 slotted screws in each end most certainly hold the 2 vice jaw plates in place. it may be that the ends of the screws have got burred over and will not be easy to free off. if you need to replace the vice jaws you may have to be quite brutal, and make 4 more screws or use socket head cap screws for the new jaws. You could try welding a suitable size nut on the end of the slotted head screws and using a spanner to get them out.

Chris Gunn

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

Posted by Chris Gunn on 10/03/2015 20:12:38:

Nick, I have just rebuilt a big vice and the 2 slotted screws in each end most certainly hold the 2 vice jaw plates in place. it may be that the ends of the screws have got burred over and will not be easy to free off. if you need to replace the vice jaws you may have to be quite brutal, and make 4 more screws or use socket head cap screws for the new jaws. You could try welding a suitable size nut on the end of the slotted head screws and using a spanner to get them out.

Chris Gunn

The vice jaws are actually in very good condition and wont need replacing (amazingly for something so old!). To be honest I might have just left them on if I didn't need that extra mm of clearance to remove the screws from the underside.

I was considering buying a manual impact driver and giving that a go but just welding nuts on and replacing the screws is a good idea.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

How about winding the jaw right back and drilling new access holes for the rear screws.

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

Posted by Bazyle on 10/03/2015 21:24:14:

How about winding the jaw right back and drilling new access holes for the rear screws.

Thats a good idea actually, or increasing the size of the original hole very slightly. Something to think about, thank you.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Don't mess about with electric impact drivers, they are more for use with masonry bits, not loosening screws that have been done up forever. Use the manual sort, with a bit that fits well…make one if you have to by grinding the end of one. My impact driver will take a half inch socket, which means you can use the big screwdriver bit that comes with some socket sets. You should put a twisting force on the impact driver before you thump it.

Heat is actually fine to use. You want something like big propane burner, not oxyacetylene which is too local. Bring the job up to moderately hot, eg spit fizzes on it, but not red heat…just a good black heat is plenty. Try the impact driver while it is hot. If no joy, let it cool down and try again while cold. Repeat as necessary. Try leaving it soaking with penetrating oil, take care of course if you reheat it later. I have had screws that resisted this sort of thing for days…everytime I walked past I would give the screw a tap or two on the head and then try the impact driver, and once or twice a day I would try the heat. Quite often when they eventually give up and come out, it is a much lighter thump on the impact driver than you tried before. The repeated heating and cooling helps break the bond between the screw and the hole, penetrating oil will slowly work its way in, and some of the earlier thumps may have had an effect that was not noticeable at the time.

John

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Nick, you could try hitting the screw heads using a pin punch which is about the same diameter as them but not bigger to help loosening, if you don't have any pin punches an ordinary piece of round steel bar will do. Before you hit or use an impact driver on the two screws that hold the fixed jaw, clamp a piece of steel bar in the vice, as this will help the impact to be directed into the screw rather than into the vice and it will also help prevent any fracture on the vice jaw itself.

Regards Nick.

[mechman48Participant @mechman48]

As a last resort drill a pilot hole & try an EZ out stud extractor, or drill the head of the screw out & once the moving block is off redrill / counterbore the retainer plate & fit SHCS plus enlarging the access hole a mil or two larger for future access.

George

Edited By mechman48 on 11/03/2015 08:48:18

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

Get a manual impact driver,hit it with a big hammer type ,they really work. I bought mine many years ago as many leyland/BMC cars secured their brake drums with 2 countersunk screws ,pigs to get out if rusted,the impact driver always got them out.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

I remember my Dad winding me up by saying look at these two small screws holding on the brake drum, luckily I spotted the four wheel studs also held the brake drum on but it did make me think for a few seconds and I was probably about 11 years old.

Mike

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Manual impact driver is the way to go. If needed make a screwdriver bit to suit, a good fit is needed. BTW those brake drum screws did not always come out ! I had one or two cars with drilled out or sheared screws, just had to be careful when wheel changing.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Is it daft to suggest chucking it into a bucket of cheap brand cola for a few days first? That works to loosen small 2-stroke pistons that have been neglected…

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

Ive got a manual impact driver on order now so hopefully with all these tips I can get them shifted in the next few weeks. Does anyone know if you can get flat bladed bits bigger than 12mm? That will do one side but the other is more like 14-15.

@pgk pgk, cola? really? Not heard of that one.

Thank you for the help everyone.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

cola contains phosphoric acid, cleans up/out all kinds of things, including you.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

The trouble with cola is it will replace that lovely patina with a dull, flat grey.

Neil

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

I have to say I think I would feel uncomfortable dunking it in cola. I will stick to wd40 (not the best I know) and the impact driver for now and see if I can shift them

I will be painting the base black but leaving the rest natural, drill marks and all. It does have a beautiful patina under the grime.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nick Grant on 11/03/2015 23:06:35:

I have to say I think I would feel uncomfortable dunking it in cola. I will stick to wd40 (not the best I know) and the impact driver for now and see if I can shift them

.

Nick,

If the WD40 doesn't penetrate, try 'PlusGas Formula A'

MichaelG.

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

Get the whole thing hot, not too hot, too hot to touch. Then dunk in diesel or paraffin. As it cools the liquid is drawn in.

[Nick GrantParticipant @nickgrant21535]

Well I managed to get the last two screws out from underneath by filing the hole slightly larger and doing the vice up as tight as I could, the bolts just squeezed out. I will continue to try and remove the jaws however. Now the moving block is only fixed to the body of the vice by the shaft. I see what I thought was a pin that I could hammer out and everything would slide apart but of course it wasnt that easy…. The pin wont budge at all so im wondering if I am going to have to drill it out to finally get this vice apart? Or is there some other trick for this final part of the disassembly?

This was the side of the pin I tried to apply force to via a punch and hammer.

and the other side of the pin

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