Discussion on the Future Direction of Model Engineer and Workshop

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes some are redrawn, In the past I have helped Diane sort out some of what gets sent in, Biro on lined A4 is a good example that can’t go straight into the mag. Mine just get reduced from A4 to allow two to a page.

The problem with you deciding how many parts is that it may not suit the page layout if the editor does not have room for what you put in one part or ends up with half a page. That is why I number from 1 through to the end then it does not matter where it goes.

[LukerParticipant @luker]

I’m keeping a keen eye on this thread and ‘Subscriptions – Going Forward’, very interesting! There was a post in one of these threads that gave some insight into both publications that I wanted to quote, but I can’t seem to find it. The post mentioned (and I’m paraphrasing) that MEW was for people ‘playing’ in their workshop and ME was for true artisans. I had to smile at this!

Now the ratio of ME to MEW quoted makes perfect sense. The person who has built a working scale model has, no doubt, made many workshop tools and fixtures (hardly worth mentioning in ME) and had to perfect many machining operations, fabrication etc. in order to get assemblies to work properly. Where someone tinkering in their workshop making widgets is plentiful, scratch builders of working models seem to be a rare breed.

My interest in live steam lies in the complexity of designing for thermal efficiency and materials that can cope with the rigorous of track operation. These additional design constraints make the workshop aspect far more involved. Anyone can make a clack (MEW), but not anyone can make one that seals properly under steam (ME). Who would you prefer describing the nuances of making perfectly round holes? And wouldn’t describing workshop techniques like this be better as a case study or in a broader series?

There are lots of opinions on the best way forward for the magazine, but here’s a little sanity check. If the publication can’t offer more to the reader than the likes of YouTube/ Patreon then it’s doomed to fail. Ultimately it’s the contributors and their novel approach to any topic that draws in the readers, and if the publication cannot entice good contributions, well then…

[BobParticipant @bob17059]

Hi All

Joining this thread rather late in the day but for what its worth here are my thoughts. It is a tough time for printed magazines. Look at what we have lost in the last couple of years, Engineering in Miniature, Hackspace, Stationary Engine and those that survive seem to be a pale shadow of what they once were in their ‘glory days’. Taken with the decline (real or just perceived) in active model engineering activity and it makes me think ‘is there any future in the hobby once the present practitioner shuffle off this mortal coil?’

 

So to be more positive what would I like to see in the magazine? Most importantly a return a core of making stuff. Actual plans that people can build and the ‘Words and Music’ to accompany the plans. In the mix should be short builds that can be achieved in a few hours with minimal equipment and materials aimed not only at beginners but also at more seasoned model engineers that may have stalled on a big build; the model engineering equivalent of writers block. Writers should not be put off from submitted long serialised build articles but these need to be more than illustrated build diaries. The writers should identify issues that other builders may experiences and discuss the pros and cons of various solutions.

 

I would like to see more diversity in projects tackled, we have not seen anything on Stirling cycle engines for a long time and not much more on internal combustion engines. It is good to see the return of construction series on stationary steam engines.

 

I would enjoy more articles on electronics in model engineering. Malcolm High’s talk on lithium batteries at the recent Midland’s Model Engineering Exhibition was very well attended by an appreciative audience. I would like to read more stuff like that in the new magazine. The existing hobby electronics magazines seem to shy away from anything which involves serious metal bashing. I would see this as getting back to our roots when the magazine was titled ‘The Model Engineer and Amateur Electrician’. More articles on design would be appreciated; a bit more of the experimental side of the hobby would be good too.

 

I enjoy articles on industrial heritage as typified by ‘An Engineer’s Day Out’ but less so club visits. I think reviews of exhibitions have their place as does ‘Club News’.

 

I do not care for the idea of brief introductory articles that then rely on extensive reference to on-line sources. For example I want to have the drawings in my hand not a weblink or even worse a QR code. Hackspace magazine used this approach and it did not work. Also drawings need to be big enough to read. Where a weblink is worthwhile it is a link to video content of a model running or similar. The German model engineering magazines do this very well.

 

So I have got that off my chest so to speak. I am a long term subscriber to Model Engineer and have been in the habit of purchasing every edition of Model Engineers Workshop from our local WH Smiths. I also subscribed to Engineering in Miniature until its untimely demise. I would like to take this opportunity to wish Neil well in his new role.

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

Interesting comment about the German Model Engineering magazine(s). What are “they” doing so well? Is this something that the UK Model engineer and workshop could look at?

I wonder if there could be some collaboration between different countries and model engineer magazines ….yes I know they might not be in English…..but to swap ideas, articles, exhibitions etc etc?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I’ve mentioned them earlier.

Generally when MiM arrives I spend longer looking through that than I do with ME when the digital comes out as the content is more what I’m interested in even though I can’t read much of it. Particular items I will then translate at a later date but seldom look at ME after that initial flick through and like someone else said the paper one sits in the plastic bag unopened. No laderhosen clad dancers in sight

Idea of their covers here, clean and tidy layout. And you have got to go back to 2016 to see a loco on the cover.

There are several german authors in MiM that have also been in ME.

The US Model Engine Builder was/is good. More focused on the one subject of IC engines but you always got a set of A3 plans and a build article in each issue unless it was a very complex engine in which it was spread over two issued. When it went digital at least it had things like live links etc not just a screen image of a paper page.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

What are the Germans doing so well. The first thing is to value engineers and engineering as a profession. Then there is the manual crafts, we no longer appreciate them and seldom teach them. Noel.

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

I have not commented on this subject thus far as I don’t think I am entitled or qualified. I am a long time ex subscriber to ME, occasional opportunistic buyer of MEW and EIM neither of which inspired me to take out a subscription!  I do confess to reading old editions of all three magazines that have been passed on to me over the years, many of which I enjoyed reading but not to the point I felt I was missing an essential element in my life and thus compelled to be a regular reader!

I have followed this thread from the beginning and the one thing that stands out to me is the generally diverse opinions on what everyone wants or does not want to see in the new offering.  My conclusion is it is an impossible task for it to be all things to all men!  Plenty of people stating things they don’t like in the current magazines but a lot fewer stating they have cancelled their subscription on the basis of the bits they don’t like!

I see the other thread discussing the new cover which prompted me to try and assess would I buy it based on the cover, my previous knowledge of the hobby and experience of the previous iterations.  That to me was a tough question which made me realise I don’t have a conscious opinion of the type of content that would make me subscribe and be sat anticipating the next edition dropping though the letter box as I did as a youngster 50 odd years ago!  There were only 2 items that caught my attention and generated some mild interest, the article on milling in the lathe (these days the advice on here is don’t do it, but that’s all I had in my early ME “career” so it struck a chord).  The other was broken drills and taps – which I assume is going to be advice on how to deal with them.  If I saw that on the news stand while on a train journey or at the airport  with a flight ahead I may well have bought it on the off chance but I don’t think I would be prompted to subscribe.

I think this will be a tough time for the magazine and this discussion will go on and on, probably longer than that on the migration of the old forum to the new format!  People naturally do not like change and need to be convinced change is for the better.  I think there will be a loss of previous subscribers of both magazines, certainly those disillusioned by content but not so far pushed to the point of cancellation, this change gives them an excuse or prompt to act.  Remains to be seen if they can be replaced and even exceeded by new subscribers!  Good luck with it all, hope it turns out well.

Paul.

[GreensandsParticipant @greensands]

I look back with great fondness to the days when Martin Cleeve was contributing articles to the ME and  in particular, the words and music to his superb cross slide mounted swing back boring tool holder. I made a version many years ago and it has given superb service.

[Chuck TaperParticipant @chucktaper]

Back in the day I accumulated several years worth of Model Engineer mags. Time & circumstance caused us to become lost to each other. An outcome I now reflect sadly upon. Perhaps the younger me viewed things differently but I do recall them as having been overall more engaging (and yes that is unlikely to be true).

I now, randomly, buy copies of both mags but not with any regularity. One thing that might again make me a regular would be a series of articles which, taken together, over time, would form the basis of a course or a textbook. Not occasional articles but a thought out and long running integrated set of articles covering all the many aspects, theory and practice, of this field – whatever it it. Certain of the other contributions could be structured to augment this.

Yours etc.

FC

[derek hall 1]

On derek hall 1 Said:

Interesting comment about the German Model Engineering magazine(s). What are “they” doing so well? Is this something that the UK Model engineer and workshop could look at?

 

The thing about the German models is the clarity of the drawings and the fact that many (probably most) of the engines can be made from ‘barstock’ without the need for costly castings. If you can read a drawing you can build straight from the plans with very little German. I have scanned the text of some projects using OCR software set to recognise German then put them into Microsoft Word, again with spell check set to German and finally use Google translate to convert the German to English. This works very well and the AI in Google translate copes with the technical German very accurately. My main interest is in stationary steam and Stirling engines and these are regularly covered in the German magazines. Also they issue separate from the magazine paperback books that have collections of related designs and larger magazine format plans collections See https://www.amazon.co.uk/Bauplan-Kollektion-f%C3%BCr-Einsteiger-Profis-Sonderausgabe/dp/3788311282/ref=sr_1_1?crid=38DNEF7WE3HIC&dib=eyJ2IjoiMSJ9.6u5o8WIxdfOWn9Ns_422oy4Yf2GXK6LZkXIuaRDnNSHGjHj071QN20LucGBJIEps._ADh_aiQqtbjv4318omnaVVZCvQC6hhhnqDIRtzbJwA&dib_tag=se&keywords=Bauplan+Kollektion&nsdOptOutParam=true&qid=1737153998&sprefix=bauplan+kollektion%2Caps%2C65&sr=8-1 for example of the German style

 

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

 

The US Model Engine Builder was/is good. More focused on the one subject of IC engines but you always got a set of A3 plans and a build article in each issue unless it was a very complex engine in which it was spread over two issued. When it went digital at least it had things like live links etc not just a screen image of a paper page.

What has happened to Model Engine Builder? The last one I received was Issue 36 (possibly June 2016). My subscription still has some copies left but no magazines are showing up in my e-mail.

 

[BobParticipant @bob17059]

While on the topic of the cover for the new magazine I do hope you can replace the ‘WordArt’ chromium style used on the title of Workshop. Every time I see it I think ‘That looks like a Year 7 student’s work after they have ‘discovered’ WordArt in Microsoft Publisher’ and are determined to use it at every opportunity. It just grates with me. Please use a ‘grown up’ type face.

 

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Is 25 years a long time or ‘just yesterday’? In 2000 few modellers had home computers and dial-up modems were expensive to use. Our only real source of info on the hobby was the magazines and books. Now everything is internet facing so magazines need to think of what people need in printed form that is not available on the screen. They immediately are a step behind not being able to provide moving images.
Good clear drawings are one aspect and good photographs. That is well thought out and executed photos as the stuff online is so often a quick phone snap mostly filled with background not the detail close up needed. In this vein can you suggest more?
Some say that broadcast linear TV channels are obsolete as people can stream any content of their choice. However people like a planned selection presented to them – so BBC1 etc is still the favourite option. One can find almost anything (ME related) online but can the magazine win with a nicely balanced selection?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

What has happened to Model Engine Builder

Mike Remus (editor & Publisher) does post on HMEM forum and says he is working on the next issue but I’m not sure if we will ever see another. He had serius healt problems a fe wyears bach and that is why time between issues got longer and then almost stopped. #39 seems to be my last issue.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I suppos eone of the reasions the old mags seemed better at the time is that we may all still have been learning but now 20-30yrs later we may skip past some content as we know how to do it or have found our own way and just want to stick with that.

Another is like Bazyle says there are other sources that give a lot more than a magazine can. And some mags give more than others. Good example of the German mag again, there was an article on designing spoked flywheels. As well as the usual there were downloadable STL files so those with a printer could print a pattern or those with a CNC could cut from solid. At best ME will give us a drawing done by a “designer”.

Bazyle mentioned the Gantry CNC possibly in the new cover thread and wanted to see something about making one. Again the Germans have it. Sebastien End has just started posting on his. Youtube about an open source gantry machine. It would be hard for a magazine to ever publish what will be on his channel over the next couple of months. Might be a bit large for some but easy enough to shorten the main axis. Even allows for making a couple of parts from layers of ply so you can get it up and running to then make those parts on the machine itself in aluminium.

Similarly go watch one of LukeR’s videos on his farmers engine, the beginner will learn more from that one video than could be put into several magazine installments.

 

[JasonB]

On JasonB Said:

[…] Bazyle mentioned the Gantry CNC possibly in the new cover thread and wanted to see something about making one. […]

Excellent points, and links! in your post, Jason … but I would just like to expand on this one ^^^

In the spirit of Model Engineer of old … We could do with a fairly serious structural analysis of that particular machine [finite element, etc.] to demonstrate its superiority and actually inspire readers to improve  their existing machinery, or design better.

MichaelG.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Sebastian uses F360 so he may well post the analysis. I know lukeR does the analysis on his boilers as we have seen that in ME

Also worth looking back at Sebastian’s build posts about his larger epoxy granite CNC Mill as he covers the design and build in quite a bit of detail.

[Phill SpowartParticipant @phillspowart84010]

I think some of the appeal of linear TV, which magazines also give, is that it gives “curated” content of a reliable quality. In the case of magazines you also get a certain amount of sanity checks and peer review (e.g. LukeR and pals arguing over stainless boilers on the letters page). There’s also been a rise in popularity of email newsletters, for similar reasons. People want a selection of interesting, possibly obscure things to read/watch from a reliable source, rather than trying to drink the firehose of data themselves. That’s before you get on to AI generated nonsense that might be wrong, dangerous or physically impossible.

[vintagengineerParticipant @vintagengineer]

I didn’t renew my subscription because it wasn’t the magazine it used to be!

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Not worth starting a new topic, but I just wanted to share this with any devotees of the old ‘Amateur Electrical’ projects:

https://dn720207.ca.archive.org/0/items/electrictoymakin00sloa/electrictoymakin00sloa.pdf

… I think it kinda fits this discussion.

MichaelG

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

Not worth starting a new topic, but I just wanted to share this with any devotees of the old ‘Amateur Electrical’ projects:

https://dn720207.ca.archive.org/0/items/electrictoymakin00sloa/electrictoymakin00sloa.pdf

… I think it kinda fits this discussion.

MichaelG

Outstanding!

(In my own opinion)

[PeteParticipant @pete41194]

As vintagengineer pointed out, “I didn’t renew my subscription because it wasn’t the magazine it used to be”. I have a fairly extensive collection of the Model Engineer magazine from the very first 1898 issue. Not every issue though. But in my opinion, it’s heyday was likely from around the 1960’s and on up into the mid 1980’s. I fully appreciate most of the magazines content is through reader and subscriber submitted content. And some of the most prolific writers during that period were extremely experienced, knowledgeable and highly respected model engineers. And who I think had a relatively rare and unusual combination of talents. The best example I can think of would of course be George Thomas, but there were also many others. It doesn’t matter how well any author might know the subject, if it’s poorly explained or unclear, then it’s wasted effort. Even the first 10 yrs of MEW were far better than the last one yr. trial period I decided to subscribe to it. Some authors over that year seemed to be doing there best to submit pictures and simple drawing heavy content that could have easily have been condensed, and with little actual writing on there part in an effort to maximize payment. Others did long drawn out 2-3 months of an article that could again been condensed into at most one single issue due to it’s simplicity that just didn’t require all that hand holding detail. Maybe that set payment scale no matter the lack of, or highly interesting, simplicity or how much effort has actually been done needs to be rethought. And the actual payment should be on a floating scale? This is very obviously a niche market magazine, and how any other magazines in the publishing industry do things may not apply to it nearly as well.

Graham Meek’s articles would be another example of the typical author the magazine needs to start catering to and very much encouraged if they can be found. I don’t pretend to understand anything about a magazine editor’s job, but this whole thread is giving direct and almost instant feedback in a way that literally can’t be bought. And something the past editors of both Model Engineer and Model Engineers Workshop could only dream of prior to the the vast majority of the readers having access to the internet. In general, most willing to give there opinions in this thread seem to be dissatisfied with either or both of the magazines content. And from my own perspective, that seems to have been true for some time. So if that content is the largest issue? This is one instance where the customer and that honest opinion feedback it’s getting right now in this thread really ought to be taken as the highest priority for the magazine, or it simply isn’t going to survive.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

There does seem to have been some odd editing and page layout going on of late. Take the Sirius article mentioned in another post.

It is supposed to be about correcting an error (not actually an error) yet the two largest photos are of the parts that are said to be wrong. The actual correction is the smallest of all the drawings which even if there was an actual error seems to be completely A about T as the correction should be more important. It could easily have been reduced by a page then only two wasted rather than 3.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

MG’s link above page 60 shows the optimum amount of detail for a locomotive construction series!

Incidentally just last week I picked up a bit of “useful but rusty metal” identical to the horseshoe magnet on page 30 and was going to ask on here how to re-energise it – but this magazine explains a few pages later.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

I’ve had to prepare Harold Hall’s obituary. I looked back at some MEWs from the 1990s and the thing that struck me was each issue was absolutely stuffed with plans for tool builds.

It was also notable that authors in those days seemed to be able to describe and illustrate a useful tool (with good figures and relatively few photos) in just a single instalment.

I get far too few such contributions these days. Is it because tooling is now much cheaper?

Neil

[Author]

Posts