digital tv switchover

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Well Said, Peter, I support your comments whole-heartedly.

 

I have made a couple of long posts to this thread, in an attempt to try and help – some of my comments were made to help people to avoid paying out unnecessarily for some of the rip-offs that have (are) happening in this business.

 

Easily the biggest con is to be asked to pay extra for ‘digital’ equipment, notably LNBs. I am still using two expensive low-noise LNBs which were bought some years ago in the days of analogue satellite systems – both are used (successfully) in digital systems now. The fact is that the receiver paths are still the same – what is different is the signal encoding, which IS now digital, so a different ‘set-top box’ (decoder) is needed, but the crooks try to apply ‘Digital’ to everything to try and can more money out of the unknowing customer. I can only recommend anyone wanting to fit a modern system to use the Internet as much as possible, (even OT threads like this!) to try and understand what is needed, or try and find an expert for advice (not the clowns who sell them in the highstreet shop)

 

One comment I would make, and I will admit I could be wrong on this because I do not live in the UK, but I believe that in some cases, it is necessary to fit new terrestrial antennas for digital reception in some areas, due to change of transmitting site and signal levels, as Peter notes, but even this may not always be necessary – simple re-alignment of the antenna may work. I am sure many people can remember the days of messing about with old bits of coat hanger and ‘rabbits-ears’ to get a picture – often a good one. (but its no good for digital work!) Peter is right – don’t believe everything the salesman tells you.

 

I also, like Peter, am no longer in this business, but I worked for many years in satellite related communications, starting in 1967 (yes, so long ago), and have worked on design, installation and commissioning of several Intelsat and Eutelsat geostationary satellite stations (originally over 30 metres diameter), and more recently in active satellite tracking stations. Bit different from domestic TV, but the principles are the same.

 

It strikes me that this thread is attracting a lot of business – despite the moderator trying to delete it early on – maybe it shows just how widespread the interests of a model engineer can be Someone suggested a thread for general (not ME related?) chat – has the moderator an opinion (to try and get people back on his side)?

 

 spelling errors corrected.

Edited By wotsit on 21/08/2011 12:44:07

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

This thread is rather like the Model Engineer of yore. If you cannot buy it (or cannot afford it) Model Engineers have a tendency to make their own. I have 2 copies of ME magazines from 1949 when everything was ‘for export’, rationed, or “We will put you on the waiting list sir”. In one copy there is the first part of a home built hand shaper and in the other the ‘M.E.’ Improved Projector.

Pat thank you for your information

Wotsit

Yes I know about the tailoring of the ‘Astra’ foot print. It was done at the insistence of the UK Government and Local Authorities, BBC and the CCCP. The Beeb did not want anyone to see the programs who had not paid the licence fees and the CCCP (Russia) did not want anyone to see it at all and the Government/Local authorities were worried about the number of planning licences they would have to issue. I think you can receive it on quadrilateral co-linear

As your experiments in Romania (about 3 to 5 degrees East of me – I am about 19 degrees East) are quite correct the footprint shows that you would need about 3 to 4 meter dish. Have you ever thought about interferometeric techniques? I have!

Peter

You are quite correct. Even digital is transmitted in analogue form, think about your internet connection. When colour was broadcast the sharks sold ‘Colour TV aerials – in all sorts of colours.

Regards

Dick

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Well said, Peter Shaw. Some will recall that i started this thread (now deleted) evincing my surprise at being able to receive all freeview channels on a portable loop aerial……and I had been told I would need a complete “digital aerial rewire.”

[Rob keevesParticipant @robkeeves73950]

Posted by John Coates on 20/08/2011 21:51:03:

Posted by Martin W on 20/08/2011 21:45:12:

John

 

Have you tried retuning the the offending receivers. Sometimes this is necessary when they have completed a switchover as channel allocations are changed. Worth a try if not already attempted.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

Yes Martin. Re-tuned every TV or box after the changeover.

Hi John, can you tell me if you recive the following fine,

 

Yesterday Ch12

4 Music Ch18

ITV4 Ch24

Russia today Ch85

 

These are channels in the same mux as Film 4, could you also tell me which transmitter you use, and your rough location.

 

Thanks Rob.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

HI, Dick,

 

Re your comments about interferometry – the idea was considered, but then I realised that due to the abysmal material on most TV channels, there was no justification in using my rapidly diminishing time even considering such a system. I suspect there would be a problem achieving sufficiently wide bandwidth to cover all the channels required, but I can’t be bothered to follow it up

 

I put up with what I can get now for the limited time I waste watching TV – I have far more interesting things to do.

 

I don’t mind posting information to help others, but I don’t want to waste my time – back to the workshop .

 

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hi,

 

I would like to thank the various people above for their support. I must admit that I fully expected being slagged off especially using the language that I did. Nevertheless, I appear to have hit upon a few home truths.

 

Anyway, just as someone else is using old “analogue designed” equipment, I am still using a masthead amplifier (no longer required) and a distribution amplifier along with the original UHF aerial cable. All this equipment was bought and installed some 15 years or so ago long before digital television had even begun to register with the Great British Public. It therefore follows that all my stuff was designed in the “analogue” era which sort of proves the point that new equipment is not necessarily needed. Furthermore, I am using an internal loftmounted aerial in a bungalow. Furthermore, because the actual aerial cable routing is via the old VCR, the total length from aerial to digital decoder must be something like 30 metres and via three lots of analogue equipment. Mind you, I do have line of sight to the main Caldbeck transmitter some 14 miles away, albeit through a gap between two houses and through a tree. Which, as those of you who know about these things is not the best situation to be in. But it works. What more can one say?

 

Regards,

 

Peter G. Shaw

 

[John CoatesParticipant @johncoates48577]

Posted by Rob keeves on 22/08/2011 08:35:21:

Hi John, can you tell me if you recive the following fine,

 

Yesterday Ch12

4 Music Ch18

ITV4 Ch24

Russia today Ch85

 

These are channels in the same mux as Film 4, could you also tell me which transmitter you use, and your rough location.

 

Thanks Rob.

Hi Rob

None of these are on any of the sets fed by aerial 2 through the booster/splitter but they are on aerial 1 feeding just the plasma.

 

Having looked at the two aerials there does seem to be a small degree of difference in their alignment.

 

I am in Scunthorpe and I think we get the signals from Belmont and Emley Moor

 

Thanks

 

John

[Rob keevesParticipant @robkeeves73950]

Hi John, i will pm you.

 

Edited By Rob keeves on 22/08/2011 21:22:53

[DerryUKParticipant @derryuk]

I bought my aerials from these guys. If you have a couple of hours to spare there is more info here than you can shake a stick at …

 

http://aerialsandtv.com/

 

Derry.

PS I fitted a log periodic

[Rob keevesParticipant @robkeeves73950]

just had this sent to me and thought i might share it. http://www.electronicsweekly.com/Articles/23/02/2012/53048/4g-transmitters-will-affect-tv-reception.htm.

For those who dont know 4G is the latest mobile phone network standard to be launched, as always we are one of the last country's to adopt it, i feel sorry for those who will be affected and as for the people who cant be helped, well total madness in my eyes.

Edited By Rob keeves on 24/02/2012 14:26:45

Edited By Rob keeves on 24/02/2012 14:27:43

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hi Rob,

I also came across this somewhere. BBC Teletext perhaps. Anyway, I've just this evening done some searching. This article:

http://www.ukfree.tv/fullstory.php?storyid=1107051834

gives a reasonable description of what is going on.

Like Rob, I think it's just plain stupid: we are being run (ruined) by money!

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

I stopped watching TV over 12 months ago and focussed on les-lathe and internet stuff

I haven't missed it at all, 95% of the TV now is junk

I'm really looking forwards to missing all the hoo-haa in the run up to the Olympics.

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Please explain someone what the hell has this got to do with model engineering!!!!!!!

Bob

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Model engineers find lots of things interesting and like to help one another out with the technical aspects of a subject. That's what makes them tick.

As you can see from this thread, they are spread all across europe as well, solving or trying to solve different problems.

Model engineers are interested in solutions, especially technical solutions

Because of the level of interest this has also become one of the larger threads in the forum.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

I totaly agree with all of Ady1's comments.

Les.

[AndyBParticipant @andyb47186]

I agree with Ady too.

I have to admit to reverting to the old-time method of switchover…we dumped the telly!

Andy

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Exactly. About a third of our club are not active modellers – they just appreciate the like minded company. Most forums have a section for off subject chit chat. The only place I think it is inappropriate is in yahoo groups because of their single section structure.

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

OK so if this is model engineering chit chat so all of you out there please explain the purpose as to makeing an model of any type and its working capability and produce drawings etc; to make a working one. I think this thread should be moved to general chat as in my mind has no relevance to to ME in general and there is no references to any manufacture of circuits. It would appear to be someone who wants to do digital on the cheap.

Bob

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Bob

Don't stress yourself. I too thought, when this site first opened, that everything would be neatly arranged by topic and only items relevant to that topic would be posted there. I hoped there would be a comprehensive search facility so that, in time, a large and easily accessed vault of knowledge would be accumulated able to provide an answer to any question I might pose. Let's be realistic – it aint gonna happen. So here is a thread entitled " digital tv switchover" – into it's fourth page of responses so far hence of interest to quite a few visitors. I suggest those who have no interest in TV matters best ignore it and read elsewhere – there are plenty of model or indeed full size engineering threads . How about starting a thread on the construction of "Springbok" ? I will never make one but I would be interested in some of the trials and tribulations in the project .

Regards

Norman

Edited By NJH on 25/02/2012 19:10:05

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Springbok/Bob,

It would appear to be someone who wants to do digital on the cheap.

There is nothing wrong with wanting to do this on the cheap, especially as it has been foisted on us by the powers that be. AND from my experience (see earlier posting) it appears that there are a lot of sharks out there aiming to make a quick buck at the expense of people who through lack of knowledge are unable to see through their misleading statements. Frankly, I cannot see that anyone who knows the truth is going to object to my recommendation to wait and see before spending lots of possibly unnecessary money. I have to say that had I been one of the unknowing, and had bought, as was being pushed, a "digital" aerial, possibly rewired my house with "sooper-dooper" cable, used brand new connectors – and then found out that my existing installation would have been satisfactory, then I would have been extremely miffed and angry.

I look on it as my duty, having been there, to advise people about the truth of this legalised scam. And judging by the positive comments from people who seem to be much more knowledgeable about this subject than me, I am correct in doing so.

I agree that it does not seem suitable for an engineering forum, but on the other hand, if by having a completely off-topic thread, I, we, can educate a few more people into not wasting their hard earned cash on something that may be unneccessary, then I do not see why not.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Springbok

It appears to be in general questions.

As we don't have a general chat I think that is near enough.

regards David

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Hi Chaps

Ok David I accept that. NJH Have a thread for the Springbok and on one of the pages shows it running on air

Have been away for a month in Tobago and only just got back so will be in rhe workshop

in earnest again and also bring the thread up to date.

Bob

P.S. never watch TV if I can avoid the pleasure with the garbage they pump out on it.

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Here is a link to the forum that I have been posting on for the Springbok. though I am baseing mine on the 1010 Wildebeeste

http://modeleng.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=general&thread=6488&page=1

Bob

Q why doese it double space when you hit the enter key !

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