Diesel Heaters

[Peter Simpson 3Participant @petersimpson3]

Does anybody use a diesel heater to warm your workshop ? Any tips, hints or recommendation’s,

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Peter there was quite a few posts on this subject I think last year suggest you try the forum search function, also plenty videos on YouTube

H

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

I’ve just failed to find the Topic mentioned by Harry!   He’s right though, and I remember the Topic was started by stevegtr, who I can’t find either.  Now I have to go out.

As I remember the suggestion was controversial.  On the one hand, Team JFDI seeing these units as a cheap easy way of heating a workshop in hot debate with the “Is that wise Captain Mainwaring?” brigade.

Cause for concern: the existence of ‘too cheap’ units;  them being designed to fit into an easily ventilated vehicle rather than in a building; fire hazard, including having a tank of diesel in the workshop; home insurance being unlikely to cover the installation if it burns the house down; and some practical issues like the need for an external vent and for the heat output to be directed by ducting.  And whilst Team JFDI are happy to burn illegally sourced diesel in these things, others prefer not to annoy the law.  Your choice!

Not clear how effective they are.  Web reports almost always contain generalities rather than figures, making it impossible to compare them with any of the various forms of electric heating available.   In theory, diesel is cheaper, but I think it would be necessary to burn a lot of it to cover the installation cost.   Much depends on the space being heated.  I suspect, but can’t prove, that electric heating has the edge in most circumstances.  A man in a poorly insulated shed at the end of the garden powered by a 13A spur might well be better off with a diesel heater, which absolutely isn’t a good solution in my indoor workshop.

Dave

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Try here:

https://www.model-engineer.co.uk/forums/topic/can-i-afford-to-heat-my-garage/

MichaelG.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

As someone who has used one I will speak ! The first is that there seem to be many options as to what you buy. I think the one we used was a 5Kw one in a 20 x 8 container. They range from the selfcontained unit with the fuel tank on top to a kit of bits to make up as you wish, then there is a choice of fittings and ducting. The system has 2 sides – fuel side and the fresh air side. The fuel side burns the fuel in an alloy chamber that is finned and has a VERY HOT exhaust that MUST be taken to the open air, this needs some thought as it will be hot enough to ignite wood etc so the opening must be lined with non inflammable material and buy a silencer, one of the parts options, though not noisy it can irritate some . The fresh air side blows air over the alloy chamber to draw the heat and depending on which model as to the ducting options. A 12v supply is needed, this can be an old 12v battery and a small battery charger ( you will need 240v mains)- it worked for us. The fuel was red diesel or 32 sec heating oil and consumption was about 2/3 L a day. There should be instructions which any intelligent person can follow. The fuel tank held about 4l . At about £120 for a warm winter it was a bargain and it’s still going. Good Luck. Noel.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Anyone who fits a self-contained ‘suitcase’ type heater needs to very carefully consider the possibility of any exhaust gases ever leaking inside the workshop.  The unfortunate outcome could be death by carbon monoxide poisoning.

Those fitted to vehicles have the exhaust connection <u>outside</u> the vehicle, so totally isolated from the interior.

Chinese exhaust connections are always suspect and the flexible exhaust pipes are not exactly of the best quality.  Anyone installing these things should also check very carefully the limits to lengths of ducting/pipes along with the permitted bends in those parts.  These are often not addressed in the installation instructions, but are readily available from serious suppliers of these devices.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The one we had was a £120 job, installed 100 yds from the sea. The exhaust was stainless flexi/spiral pipe and was sealed with auto motive exhaust pipe sealer from a motor factor at about £3 for a big cartridge. 3 years later the pipe is as good as the day it was fitted and has NO rust. As to the fitting being outside the cab, No it’s inside the cab on the bottom of the unit and does have the potential to leak if not fitted properly. IF there was concern about Co then it would cost little to install a detector/alarm in the area served by the heater.

As to fire risk of fuel, then choose the separate tank and mount outside. the unit has a pump so there is no risk of gravity feeding if the tank is below the heater. The heater unit is best mounted on an outside wall, this will keep the exhaust pipe short.

If your a fool and you buy one of these, the bonus is you may feature in a forthcoming Darwin awards !

Good Luck. Noel.

[Peter Simpson 3]

On 19 November 2024 at 08:17 Peter Simpson 3 Said:

Does anybody use a diesel heater to warm your workshop ? Any tips, hints or recommendation’s,

I fitted one . It’s the 2nd year in now. 100% reliable so far & does not break the bank to run. I use Kerosene. Here is the youtube link I posted. Look for the playlist ,I think there are around 8 video’s of fitting , testing, etc.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Noel Shelley  posted:

quote “ No it’s inside the cab on the bottom of the unit and does have the potential to leak if not fitted properly. “ unquote.

Please, read my post more precisely/carefully.  I said the exhaust connection was outside the cabin.  The heater is carefully installed by any competent user, with the main body of the heater inside the cabin but the exhaust connection is below a sealing flange such that it is totally sealed from the interior.

The suitcase type are not safe, as a parking heater, for anyone sleeping in the vehicle.

Of course, there is always the possibility of the heater being installed by a numpty.  There was a report from someone in a caravan who had their CO monitor alarming but they didn’t understand why.  It transpired that this person had completely covered the caravan with a tarpaulin because of the very low outside temperatures.  The CO, while being exhausted underneath the caravan still seeped inside because the hot exhaust gases could not escape once they had risen around the caravan due to convection.

Thought should also be given to one’s position with insurance.  If anything goes wrong, the insurers would likely decline any claim.

 

[BobParticipant @bob17059]

I have a Chinese ‘Diesel’ heater in my garage workshop. I run it on 28 second kerosene which costs me about £1.00 per litre although I understand you can get it cheaper. The heater is mounted outside the workshop in its own metal housing. The combustion air intake, exhaust and fuel tank are all outside. Cold air from the workshop is drawn in through a short length of stainless steel duct and the hot air returned through a similar pipe. The unit is powered using a 12V DC switched mode PSU ( mounted inside the garage) The control pendent is also wall mounted in the workshop. The installation was quite involved as large holes had to be cut through the brickwork and a custom enclosure had to be built from second hand box profile sheet. I have a smoke detector and CO detector in the workshop.

 

It is now in its third winter, and has performed faultlessly from day 1. It will raise the temperature of my single leaf brick garage to 17 Celsius even when there is frost on the ground outside and runs all day on 3 litres of fuel.

 

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

The Chinese unit’s that I’ve investigated are clearly not compliant with requirements for a fixed building oil fired heater. The kit ones intended for vehicles are not intended for installetion in buildings either.
That’s apart from quality issues, fuel shut-offs etc. They probably also breach building regulations. Section L says you can’t replace a system with one that produces more CO2 so you can’t replace an electric heater with oil or gas. Additionally they have to be approved to BS EN 13842 and be at least 91% seasonal efficency.
If you do think of buying one include the cost of a good dry power fire extinguisher, a fire alarm with remote sounder and most importantly a good Carbon Monoxide detector.

And if the worst does happen your insurance may not payout and if somone dies you could face a manslaughter charge. This is not far fetched see the recent care home incident in Dorset.

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1977/167/body/made
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/63d8edbde90e0773d8af2c98/Approved_Document_L__Conservation_of_fuel_and_power__Volume_2_Buildings_other_than_dwellings__2021_edition_incorporating_2023_amendments.pdf

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

At least one of the common “suitcase” ones has been subject to a product safety report and recall

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/64e7621520ae89000df26d7f/2302-0090-product-safety-report-vevor-diesel-car-parking-heater.pdf

Lots of VEVOR products have been deemed unsafe. See https://www.gov.uk/product-safety-alerts-reports-recalls/important-safety-message-product-safety-reports-for-vevor-branded-products

 

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

I thought I’d let you know what I have and why.

I suffered terribly with corrosion in the workshop for a few reasons. I live on a peninsula surrounded on 3 sides by the sea, very close by. We get some pretty horrendous weather from the southwest and the render on the south and west walls of my workshop had cracked terribly (dried out too quick when building I reckon) although it was bonded soundly to the wall the inside of the walls (single leaf blockwork) it was physically wet to the touch. It also had an uninsulated pitch roof although the main garage door was an insulated sectional door.

I harshly jet washed off the 2 walls, tanked them with an SBR slurry mix then painted them with Bedec paint (the elastic stuff), it’s dam good! I got hold of a load of 50mm celotex and insulated the roof leaving a decent air gap to the membrane making sure there were no gaps, sticking it in with a little expanding foam and tape bonding all the joints.

Once all that ‘orribleness had been sorted the walls began to dry out (funnily enough!) and I bought a Chinese diesel heaters for £79.95 + about 15 quid’s worth of ducting. I believe it was listed as a 5 – 8kw. 5 is a stretch, and I don’t even think the maths of fuel used etc even remotely add up for it to possibly be an 8kw.

I’ve got a lean to shed on the north side of my workshop so the heater is installed on the external side of the workshop wall but in the shed. It draws air in from the upper area of the workshop and puts it back in lower down. Combustion air is drawn in from where it is in the shed and exhaust out through a long stainless ‘flexi’ through a stainless gland in the shed wall. The added bonus of that is the exhaust keeps all the stuff (gardening etc) in the shed nice and dry!

It runs off a small 12v power supply on the wall in the workshop, I have a CO monitor near by just in case.

I run it on domestic heating oil as that’s what we have for the house which comes in at around 70 odd pence a litre. I’ve run a line from the tank into the lean to shed to a small pump to fill the tank.

I know the fire extinguisher is probably woefully inadequate but it’s better than nowt!

When it’s reasonably cold I just run it over night for around 12 hours but when it gets proper cold outside I leave it on 24/7 on lowest setting. That uses around 2.7L in 24 hours. last winter I left it on for over 3 months and the temp in the workshop was really comfortable, didn’t measure it properly but the controller said it was around 16 deg even when 0 or below outside.

Not the cheapest to run but for what it does it’s more than worth it and so far it’s been faultless although the main fan motor is starting to get a little noisier than it was (barely noticeable but it’s a slightly different noise) but a replacement is about £12- £14 delivered.

One of the best things I’ve bought for the workshop and I haven’t had to treat any of my tooling or equipment for corrosion since, normal use and handling is enough. No condensation on any of the kit etc.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

One of my friends has a oil fired system & lives remotely on his Farm. He has just had 1000 litres delivered. 51p per litre. Shame I have to pay £1.00 but only buy 50 or so litres at a time. My earlier comment ,I made a mistake. This is the 3rd year I have had mine fitted. Not internally ventilated like the old gas heaters people had hung in a bathroom or over a sink. These units are sealed. They vent from outside the building or vehicles & so does the exhaust system.

There is a guy on youtube called Joshua delile who has done some great revues on the chinese diesel heaters.

Way back I had a Fairline targa 33 motor cruiser. That had a Eberspacher 3kw unit fitted. I had it in bits when it failed & from memory was exactly the same as the much cheaper unit I now have in the workshop. That cost me over £300 for a new control unit which had burnt out. Double what i paid for the whole unit I have in the workshop now.

You could disscus safety all day long about the workshop & rules. Welding & gasses for welding , even working on your own vehicles at home. The list is endless on what you should or should not do. You are your own safety officer as long as you use your noodle (Brain).

I would not be without the heater & come again I would do the same. Throughout this winter I am hoping as the last 2 that 50 litres of Kerosene is going to keep my garage & workshop nice & toastie without killing me or burning down the building.

Some people have even created a water jacket aroung the exhaust & get free hot water toboot.

Steve.

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

If your workshop is well insulated and draught proofed you might want to try a dehumidifer, the one I have puts out a reasonable stream of warm air and this plus reduced moisture levels seems to work, easy to install as it just plugs in and no dealing with smelly diesel.

 

[Adrian R2]

On Adrian R2 Said:

If your workshop is well insulated and draught proofed you might want to try a dehumidifer, the one I have puts out a reasonable stream of warm air and this plus reduced moisture levels seems to work, easy to install as it just plugs in and no dealing with smelly diesel.

 

And also waterproof!

Although I think a dehumdifier is usually the best answer to workshop condensation, it ain’t always so. Taf_pemb describes a workshop that leaked like a sieve, at least until he fixed it.  And it may still be wet by normal standards.  Anyway, if water is getting in through the walls, roof or floor, then a dehumidifier will struggle to remove it, and a big one running continuously is costly.

Taf_pemb applies a different solution to his condensation problem, which is to keep his workshop and contents at a constant temperature.  Works because condensation occurs when temperature changes, and preventing that makes it unnecessary to remove the water.  Problem with heating is that it is expensive to keep a space warm for months on end, especially if it’s poorly insulated.  Heating a thin wooden shed all winter will give the old wallet a damned good thrashing!   There’s a cross-over point where the cost advantage switches from dehumidifying to heating.   I think Taf_pemb understands his local problem and has applied the right method for his circumstances.    However, heating is definitely wrong for my workshop because it’s dry and well-insulated:  not much water gets in and temperature only changes slowly with the weather.  That means I don’t have a serious condensation problem, and keeping my workshop at a constant temperature would be a complete waste of money.  I too understand my local problem, and my answer is different.  Taf_pemb and I are both right!

Plenty of others are in the middle, owning workshops that are neither horribly problematic or completely trouble free.   Two factors to consider when dealing with condensation:  where is the water coming from, AND, how much does the temperature fluctuate?   Stopping water getting in, and removing any that does, plus adding insulation to stop wild temperature changes, will usually provide the cheapest answer.  Even if heating is the answer, insulation reduces the cost.

Tactics matter too.  For example, though a fan heater is a good way of keeping the operator comfy, they warm the  workshop’s air much faster than any metal present.  Thus any water in the air will condense on the machines, making corrosion highly likely!  So I only use a fan-heater on the coldest days, instead dressing warmly and relying on slow heat from the lighting and running the machines to gradually lift the temperature.  If rapid heating is needed by the operator, keeping the machines above ambient with black heaters is much cheaper than heating the whole workshop.   Machines kept warmer than the air stops condensation.

Dave

 

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Has no-one tried split aircon for heating??

[Taf_Pembs]

On Taf_Pembs Said:

I thought I’d let you know what I have and why.

I suffered terribly with corrosion in the workshop for a few reasons. I live on a peninsula surrounded on 3 sides by the sea, very close by. We get some pretty horrendous weather from the southwest and the render on the south and west walls of my workshop had cracked terribly (dried out too quick when building I reckon) although it was bonded soundly to the wall the inside of the walls (single leaf blockwork) it was physically wet to the touch. It also had an uninsulated pitch roof although the main garage door was an insulated sectional door.

I harshly jet washed off the 2 walls, tanked them with an SBR slurry mix then painted them with Bedec paint (the elastic stuff), it’s dam good! I got hold of a load of 50mm celotex and insulated the roof leaving a decent air gap to the membrane making sure there were no gaps, sticking it in with a little expanding foam and tape bonding all the joints.

Once all that ‘orribleness had been sorted the walls began to dry out (funnily enough!) and I bought a Chinese diesel heaters for £79.95 + about 15 quid’s worth of ducting. I believe it was listed as a 5 – 8kw. 5 is a stretch, and I don’t even think the maths of fuel used etc even remotely add up for it to possibly be an 8kw.

I’ve got a lean to shed on the north side of my workshop so the heater is installed on the external side of the workshop wall but in the shed. It draws air in from the upper area of the workshop and puts it back in lower down. Combustion air is drawn in from where it is in the shed and exhaust out through a long stainless ‘flexi’ through a stainless gland in the shed wall. The added bonus of that is the exhaust keeps all the stuff (gardening etc) in the shed nice and dry!

It runs off a small 12v power supply on the wall in the workshop, I have a CO monitor near by just in case.

I run it on domestic heating oil as that’s what we have for the house which comes in at around 70 odd pence a litre. I’ve run a line from the tank into the lean to shed to a small pump to fill the tank.

I know the fire extinguisher is probably woefully inadequate but it’s better than nowt!

When it’s reasonably cold I just run it over night for around 12 hours but when it gets proper cold outside I leave it on 24/7 on lowest setting. That uses around 2.7L in 24 hours. last winter I left it on for over 3 months and the temp in the workshop was really comfortable, didn’t measure it properly but the controller said it was around 16 deg even when 0 or below outside.

Not the cheapest to run but for what it does it’s more than worth it and so far it’s been faultless although the main fan motor is starting to get a little noisier than it was (barely noticeable but it’s a slightly different noise) but a replacement is about £12- £14 delivered.

One of the best things I’ve bought for the workshop and I haven’t had to treat any of my tooling or equipment for corrosion since, normal use and handling is enough. No condensation on any of the kit et

You need a guard over that exhaust in the shed. If something is lent against it or falls onto it there will be a fire. If the wall surface is not fireproof there should be a metallc heat shield between it and the exhaust as well.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Robert has a very good point ! The exhaust does get VERY hot, will melt plastic and char wood. Noel.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

If the exhaust is very hot it suggests that as a heater they  are very inefficient. Does anyone have figures? My gas fired heater is better than 70%, cant find exact figure

[Taf_PembsParticipant @taf_pembs]

Dave, The workshop is proper dry now, it isn’t a very old building, it was just the cracking of the external render that was the issue… fortunately!

 

Robert, yes, head down and tail between legs. A mesh guard is on the to do list (I was supposed to do it in the summer). I did lag it but the lagging I had was a waste of time. It will get done as soon as I can get hold of some reasonable mesh.

[duncan webster 1]

On duncan webster 1 Said:

If the exhaust is very hot it suggests that as a heater they  are very inefficient. Does anyone have figures? My gas fired heater is better than 70%, cant find exact figure

Found figure for similar model 82%. Balanced flue so no combustion products. You do need a gas supply, they will run off bottled gas, but that is quite expensive

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

David McLuckie, on utoob, has made quite a lot of reasonably sensible vids.  More clever than the average mutt on the subject.

He has collected and measured the waste heat from the exhaust and compared it to the heat from the hot air..

There are others, but mostly not very competent when it comes to these experiments/calculations.

80% would, I think, be about right?  Probably on the optimistic side, dependent on the operating conditions.

[mark smith 20]

On mark smith 20 Said:

Has no-one tried split aircon for heating??

Do these things exist for DIY in the UK? Last I looked you couldn’t buy one unless you had F-gas certs, even though they are readily available in the US, where I believe they come pre-charged with dry-break connectors.

[mark smith 20Participant @marksmith20]

Yes they do , i have had one for around 10 -15 years  as i do alot of work in a conservatory attached to the house which is bloody freezing in winter unlessits sunny. Its the older non inverter type .It came pre gassed with quick connectors . I havent used it for a while as energy costs are high now. But when i used it almost every day for a few hours it was quite efficient and didnt add that much to the quarterly electric bill. The inverter ones are supposed to be cheaper to run.

I bought it new off ebay ,it was only around £200-300 andive had alot of use out of it. I would of thought they would be ideal for a well insulated workshop.

[Author]

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