Did we go to the moon in 1969

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

.

For anyone that is interested (it's been on many times before) on 'Eden' channel this afternoon is the NASA story.

Nick

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

The only thing that's actually going to the moon is Bitcoin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 28/05/2017 14:57:54:
No we didn't. The Germans did though, paid for by the Americans.

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An interesting take on it Carl

… I had assumed that "we" referred to mankind.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by blowlamp on 28/05/2017 12:16:59:

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/05/2017 09:43:30:

Posted by blowlamp on 27/05/2017 23:35:53:

How did they cope with temperature extremes of plus or minus 150-200 degrees C on the surface of the moon?

Probably helped them that they use Fahrenheit not Celsius…

You must have got your info from a different website to me.

That was a poke at NASA who famously mixed up imperial and metric when crashing a mars probe.

More pertinently, the majority of 'full-sun' moon is at 100C, but only the 'feet' of the lander and astronauts woudl be directly in contact with this and in the absence of an atmosphere they would be more heated by the sunlight than by re-radiation of IR from the moon, so the challenge of cooling (or accepting heat) is really the same as for a spacecraft in orbit. In fact this is even tougher to deal with, sunlit parts of the ISS would reach 250C:

science.nasa.gov/science-news/science-at-nasa/2001/ast21mar_1

The LEM used a 'porous plate sublimator' a very efficient device for refrigeration that works by allowing tiny amounts of water to evaporate into the vacuum of space, also used for space suits (the little ones on spacesuits can dump nearly 600 watts of energy).

http://www.quora.com/How-did-the-air-conditioning-work-on-Apollo-11-lunar-landing-module

In fact the cooling system on Apollo 11 was a bit too good:

"During the sleep period on the lunar surface, the crewmen reported that they
were too cold to sleep. Analysis of the conditions experienced indicated that, once the
crewmen were in a cold condition, there was not enough heat available in the ECS to
return them to a comfortable condition. In addition to the required procedural changes
which were designed to maintain heat in the suit circuit, hammocks were provided for
subsequent missions to improve crew comfort and to reduce heat conduction from the
crewmen."

Much of interest in this fascinating NASA document

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by blowlamp on 28/05/2017 16:01:19:

The only thing that's actually going to the moon is Bitcoin

Ransomed out of the NHS?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

They didn’t use Fahrenheit. They used Rankine. When you get into the calcs in papers and in books by NASA on rocket and space vehicle design, it’s always Rankine along with lots of other weird and wonderful units.

The other thing about these papers and books are the number of German names in the authorship list on the front page. Until well into the early 1980s too.

If you want an example of the above see “Modern Engineering for the Design of Liquid Propellant Rocket Engines”. You can download a copy from NASA TRS.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

That 'temperature on the moon' problem is a good example of earth bound common sense leading us astray. We live on a world with an atmosphere and it's obvious that we would cook if the temperature of the air was 150°C. I own an ordinary kitchen oven and you couldn't live in it.

Cooking in that way can't happen on the moon. There is no atmosphere so the only way astronauts can get hot is by direct contact with the surface, or by absorption of the sun's radiation. The first is mostly dealt with by a bit of insulation and the second by a layer of silver foil.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 28/05/2017 17:19:34

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/05/2017 16:51:03:

Posted by blowlamp on 28/05/2017 16:01:19:

The only thing that's actually going to the moon is Bitcoin

Ransomed out of the NHS?

 

I believe the ransom was 300 USD – but payable in bitcoin, so the earlier you bought yer bitcoin, the cheaper the ransom.

I'm not certain that any release code is even sent after payment. Maybe just forking out for a new hard drive & reinstalling from a backup () would be the best way forward, like you'd have to do with other virus infections.

 

Ali G Interviews Buzz Aldrin

A bit rude in parts so don't watch if easily offended – still funny in my opinion.

 

 

Edited By blowlamp on 28/05/2017 18:41:43

[Steven GreenhoughParticipant @stevengreenhough56335]

Posted by Michael-w on 27/05/2017 18:14:32:

Posted by Steven Greenhough on 27/05/2017 17:30:20:
But how many places and resources have we found when looking for somewhere/thing else? How much of what we have was actually the product of a different initial requirement? Saying such things are a waste of time and money just because we havent seen 'results' inside of half a decade isn't really fair when you consider that at some point our existence will have to come down to something greater than the balance sheet.

Never mind the resources though, the distances involved are beyond what we think of as far away. To accommodate earth on a drawing, to scale, would need an immense* piece of paper to include pluto. We simply don't know of, or have a form of propulsion that could take us to where we could carry out a meaningful search.

* Bill Bryson –

‘On a diagram of the solar system to scale, with Earth reduced to about the diameter of a pea, Jupiter would be over a thousand feet away and Pluto would be a mile and a half distant (and about the size of a bacterium, so you wouldn’t be able to see it anyway). On the same scale, Proxima Centauri, our nearest star, would be almost ten thousand miles away. Even if you shrank down everything so that Jupiter was as small as the period at the end of this sentence, and Pluto was no bigger than a molecule, Pluto would still be over thirty-five feet away.’​

Michael W

Edited By Michael-w on 27/05/2017 18:20:42

But so what? I'm not talking about the resources as the prize, I'm talking about the journey as necessity. Who's to say it's a there-and-back again scenario? At some point we need to realise that Conquest in the Viking sense is an old hat notion. Bringing back goods, jewels, spices, fabrics and resources to the Independent Republic Of Earth can no longer be the motivation of human endeavour. We used to think there was Heaven, and Earth. Earth was ours to do what we want with and Heaven would be waiting for us if we did it right.

This must seem like folly to anyone with even a reasonably rational mind

If the human race is to survive/evolve/perpetuate beyond the apparently limited scope of our earth-bound existence then we must get moving. Even things like global warming are insignificant when we consider what (very eventually) happens to our Sun. So we will have to spread. If we disregard this simply on the basis of scale (because it's too big and scary to contemplate), then we may as well give up now.

We're unique among Darwin's species in that we can control our own evolution. In nature, it's not something magic that happens under the table, it's an observable feedback loop, it is cause and effect. It takes many generations and individuals, but it's driven, not some sort of happenstance. Yet we can do it artificially, in labs, manipulating DNA in test tubes, or we can do it the old-fashioned way, by choosing partners for reasons other than their ability to procreate… BUT we are not bound by the rules of natural selection because we understand them. When the time comes we can truly stop cancer, we will have made the mechanism of evolution obsolete. The difference between us and every other species, extant and extinct, is that we know the difference between those two states.

I'm rambling a bit, all I'm trying to say is that even though the task is almost unfathomable, we will have to be up to it IF we are to carry on, and I think that net profit in resources is a sad motivation when looking at things like going to The Moon, Mars, or LV426…

[Steven GreenhoughParticipant @stevengreenhough56335]

Posted by Chris Trice on 28/05/2017 12:46:04:

Posted by fizzy on 28/05/2017 11:04:46:

"Those who believe the moon landings were faked simply lack the intellectual capacity to understand the science that made it possible"

What a thoroughly arrogant statement. I understand a great deal of the science which makes it extremely unlikely to have occurred.

 

Yet you're wrong because they did so you don't. There is no room for debate about this unless you want to claim the Bumble Bee can't fly also. Did you ever consider that you're stupidity holds the human race back? I'm sorry if I come across as offensive but it's like trying to hold a rational argument with an irrational person. It can't be done. Which parts do you struggle with and I'll attempt to answer them for you?

Not just because of this post, but most of what you have written…

If I'm ever in the same corner of the univers as you, you must allow me to buy you a drink!

Imagine, if you will, two sides of a coin; on the one side we have science, knowledge, what we have discovered AND observed in a rational, quantifiable and qualifiable manner. Science here is a broad field, but is basically anything we can create to our design, or observe and explain. Science is not conjecture, 95% of us might not understand that science, but that's because we need to accept that we're not a sharp as we think we are, and some things cannot be dumbed down enough. Some science may appear genuinely contradictory, but that is not down to the facts being un-real, only that our understanding is inadequate, which brings us to… On the other side of this coin, is simply the stuff we're still working on. The 'science' we know might not explain or control it, but 'some science' will and who knows we may get to the stage where own 'that science'.

(Oh, hang on, some may have expected religion, belief, creationism, superstition, conspiracy lizard people etc. to be on the other side of the coin… I'm afraid not. That's a totally different currency. It's what some use, either to explain the unknown or discredit the known… it's a particularly low value currency, because it's everywhere, it's called B-$.

Edited By Steven Greenhough on 28/05/2017 20:46:17

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Please can we not bring religion into this discussion?

N.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

You should not rubbish other people’s beliefs.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 29/05/2017 08:47:17:
You should not rubbish other people's beliefs.

Y'know. I don't agree with that. If people's beliefs are demonstrably wrong and have a negative impact on other people or things, they should be shown up as the fallacies that they are.

In a world of well established scientific knowledge based on observation of facts and experience, carefully reasoned explanations and peer review etc etc, it is ludicrous that beliefs, whether they be based on millenia-old texts written by those bereft of scientific method, or based on personal opinion gleaned from the local pub or the internet, should somehow be given equal creedence and for some reason should be respected.

Ignorance should be called out for what it is: ignorance. Allowing ignorance to gain the same value as science in public debate is going to take us back to the dark ages. The fact that someone believes in that ignorance gives it no protected status.

That's what i believe, anyway.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by Carl Wilson 4 on 29/05/2017 08:47:17:
You should not rubbish other people's beliefs.

Hi, I agree, however, beliefs that condone persecution are not acceptable in my view.

Regards Nick.

[Simon CollierParticipant @simoncollier74340]

Well said Hopper. And why is the greatest scourge of the world, religion, off limits for discussion?

[Nick_GParticipant @nick_g]

Posted by Simon Collier 1 on 29/05/2017 09:47:03:

And why is the greatest scourge of the world, religion, off limits for discussion?

.

Same reason in pubs years ago there was often a sign (usually in the bar or 'tap room' side) that stated words to the effect :-

"No talk of religion, politics or money lending."

Reason I suppose without a great deal of imagination it often led to fall outs and fisty-cuffs.!

As a side note and off topic I know. Why were tap rooms in pubs called such.???

Nick

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Nick_G on 29/05/2017 09:56:02:

As a side note and off topic I know. Why were tap rooms in pubs called such.???

.

Presumably because the best ale is/was delivered in small casks [Pins] which were then tapped.

MichaelG.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

OK so I didn’t add all the caveats. Obviously the beliefs of Adolf Hitler and his ilk and as a further example latter day Islamic extremists were and are utterly reprehensible and should be shown up and ridiculed at every opportunity.

What I meant was that in general it is poor form and bad manners to label someone as ignorant simply due to the fact that they may have a faith of some kind. A lot of us have been to what the earthly equivalent of the biblical hell is and come out the other side relatively unscathed – and very often a faith of some sort is all that gets you through. Sometimes it is all there is.

We are all intelligent, thoughtful people here. Well, you lot are anyway. So a little bit of respect for what others believe is in order.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

Unless of course they believe the moon landings were faked. In which case they are just numpties.

[Carl Wilson 4Participant @carlwilson4]

I’ve got to stop posting here. That band saw review ain’t gonna write itself.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Two things destroy the good harmony of internet forums: politics and religion.

Both are matters of faith, opinion and personal commitment with no provable right or wrong. Impassioned discussion, of them inevitably ends up in offence, often to people who don't join in but simply turn away.

Some of the comments made above could have already left people feeling insulted and upset.

Who would like their sincerely held and fundamental world-view to be classed with loony conspiracy theories?

This thread will have to close.

Neil

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