Did i make the right choice buying an old banger Myford lathe.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Looking back at the mention of the Vulture, one good thing in its favour was that it effectively spawned the Merlin powered Lancaster from the Manchester.

But, did the installation play any part in the problems with the Vulture?

I have seen a Leyland engine installed in a chassis, with the original coolant pipework intended for a Gardner, merely sleeved up from inch and quarter to two inch. I'll bet that that did not do much for the coolant flow rates!

(Any one who has seen the internals of a Leyland water pump and a Gardner will know what I mean )

Howard

Edited By Howard Lewis on 19/02/2020 15:26:59

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Strange how some designs are good but just a few things wrong with it make it bad.

We went to Le-mans some years ago. We all went in open top sports cars. My mate had a beautiful TVR Griffith 5.0. Stunning car. He kept saying my car is overheating. At the Villa one night I had a look at it with him. Straight away I said Steve take your number plate off & get a stick on for the bonnet, like my old E-Type was. He took off the No plate and A Walla. Car was as cool as a cucumber. Why did TVR not see this. Temps in France were rather hot.

Steve.

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

In WW2 my dear old Dad was an engine fitter in the RAF, for the last 3 or 4 years on Lancaster squadrons and Merlins. He told a couple of stories…

1/ The way of identifying an RR engine from a Packard one without removing cowlings etc was to stick a hand up an exhaust port, an RR engine was cleaned up and smooth a Packard one was "as cast", not to say it was rough, just not as smooth as a RR one.

2/ On the squadrons RR engines and Packard engines were considered interchangeable. When an aircraft was built, in the build documentation the engine number and manufacturer would be indicated. Due to the demands of active service it wasn't unusual for non original engines to be installed as time went along, these could be either RR or Packard.

3/ Apparently each engine had it's own toolkit. If an aircraft was lost or an engine destroyed, the toolkit would be returned to stores and subsequently reassigned to another engine. This didn't stop various bits of a toolkit going missing. As late as the mid 70s I can remember Dad saying, "….careful with that one son, that's a Merlin spanner".

4/ Each engine obviously had its own throttle in the cockpit, part of the arrangement was an emergency boost set up, which required the throttle to be pushed though a "tell tale" wire and enabled a short (I think 5 minutes) burst of absolute maximum power. One of Dads aircraft flew back from Berlin with two dead engines, one at about quarter power and the fourth with the throttle through the wire, flying at ever decreasing altitude the aircraft crossed the coast over East Anglia, only requiring the undercarriage to be lowered to land. At the end of the runway everything was switched off and the fourth engine just went clank clank and stopped, after several hours at emergency power. RR took the motor back and tried to find out why it had lasted so long.

Dad loved Merlins!! He wasn't particularly sentimental but he did go a bit misty eyed when talking about them…..except for the times that he had to do an engine change with snow on the ground and the aircraft at dispersal!!

cheers

Bill

Edited By Bill Pudney on 20/02/2020 02:09:52

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Well guys this is an old thread from when i bought my old banger Myford super 7B. After using the said piece of kit for some time now here is my thoughts.

Did i do the right thing ,old British vs Asian import.

Of course i did. Apart from oiling the needed parts which are total loss as the RX8 engine was called a total loss system. drips oil everywhere. It has been outstanding. Very accurate in use & not in my mind a waste of money.

This evening after retiring from my workshop i read this thread i started some time ago & was amazed at all the comments that were posted.

It seems to break down to 2 areas. 1 is the folks that bought imported machines for whatever reasons. Not sure but could be as i was many years ago, raising a family & a mortgage to boot. If i wanted anything i made it or bought as cheaply as possible to aquire what i needed to do.

Then there were the members who had bought old western machinery & very happy with it. I guess as some have said as long as you can achieve the results required with what you have is OK.

TRUE.

The only conclusion i have on this subject & there are 2 outcomes from it is.

When the old Boxford/ Myford / Harrison / Colchester/ Beaver/ & many more British machines were built. Was there a outlet to sell off the machines that failed the Quality control. Backgood outlet as banned from this site or some other market place where the British failed machines were sold. I think not. Is this because all the machines were perfect when leaving the factory which made Britain great.

Or was it because they only made small batches of machinery & the eastern machines are made in such huge numbers that there have to be some failures.

You tell me.

I have watched many video's of far eastern machinery manufacture that are very good. It seems they can do what we cannot do & that is copy anything. My Rolex looks every bit authentic.

So i paid £2100 for the Super 7B. What could i have bought with that money from far eastern import. Not a gripe but a genuine question.

Steve.

Steve.

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

A big negative for me with the imports when I was looking years ago was the lack of a t-slotted cross slide

I don't know if much has changed in that respect over the last 10 years, there doesn't even seem to be a secondary market for them as an upgrade either

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Steviegtr on 14/11/2020 00:43:05:

[…]

You tell me.

.

Having attended a few of the Myford [Beeston] Open-Days/Factory-Tours … I know in my heart that these machines were crafted by people who cared about the job they were doing.

That care is tangible in the product.

MichaelG.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Dunno. But you could have bought a Raglan 5” with quite a few accessories for less than half that. Or a fair Little John for about 500. Heavier by a fair bit, but larger swing and a lot more grunt.

Not so many about and clearly not as popular as the Myford name but, IMO, a better quality lathe.

Just my thoughts, after initially buying chinese and now (much more) happily using my 5”. I am not tempted to change to myford in any way, shape or form, except perhaps (but not likely) a 254.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

A trawl through the lathes web site will find lots of UK hobby machine manufacturers that are long out of business. Myford were the last man standing and arguably still live. They made machines that for a long time people wanted to buy and own so that today we have a large number of machines still in circulation and sought after by many. The rise of Asian manufacturing brought us a choice, initially the price was ultra competitive but quality could leave much to be desired. There is no doubt that quality has improved and if you avoid the risk of going super cheap with a direct import then you are likely to be happy with your purchase. Good Myfords are still to be found but the oldest ones are over seventy years old now so condition is is everything.

Mike

[Dave HalfordParticipant @davehalford22513]

My only issue with Myfords is they are twice the price they should be. Whereas some Asian lathes still come in with dodgy wiring and power boards that pop if you engineer a dig in.

There is no prefect choice unless you could get an Asian CVT style belt drive.

Edited By Dave Halford on 14/11/2020 10:41:43

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Steviegtr on 14/11/2020 00:43:05:

….

So i paid £2100 for the Super 7B. What could i have bought with that money from far eastern import. Not a gripe but a genuine question.

Steve.

Steve.

My Warco WM250V still comes in under that price. I never had a Myford 7, but I did have a Speed 10 (ML10 'upgrade' ), which I was happy with for nearly 15 years – but it wasn't really big enough, which was why I moved on.

The Warco's a considerably bigger machine with a ~5" centre height and a broader bed and crossslide, as well as variable speed and crossfeed.

It wouldn't be as good for me as it is if it didn't have the slotted crosslide and the Myford double-swivel vertical slide that I've adapted to fit. With that setup, I can do far more milling than I could on the Myford Speed 10. I'd like to have a mill as well, but so far I've always seemed to find a way to do what I want with what I've got – and in my book that's what engineering is.

I have to say, I feel no envy whatever for any other lathe at this time. What I'd quite like is Bridgeport, built at about 2/3 scale…

Edited By Mick B1 on 14/11/2020 10:24:26

[David ColwillParticipant @davidcolwill19261]

I too have had both Chinese and British lathes. The Chinese lathes I had were okay, certainly not great but up to the job. There was an odd lack of attention to detail and some obvious cost cutting but all off these were fairly easily put right.

By chance I seem to have ended up with a who's who of lathes.

Dean Smith and Grace 1330

Smart and Brown 1024

Hardinge HLV

All of these have some element of wear but are nicer to use and have a better feel than any of the import machines I have used..

However I have seen a couple of Hardinge HLVH that were worn to the point of being unusable.

On the other hand there are quite a few on this forum turning out great work on new Chinese lathes

Recently I have seen a friends lathe that was new Chinese and was pretty shocking in how awful it was. Quality control was zero and whoever put it together had clearly no idea what a lathe was or how one worked.

The moral of the story is that many of us who post on here have experience and this can effectively quadruple your spending power.

I really feel for the people starting out. It can be a lottery until you gain the some experience.

David.

[EugeneParticipant @eugene]

There are some quite presentable Myford M types still available.; very robust and a super rigid bed.

There was one in magnificent nick available on Ebay just a week or so ago with every attachment and extra imaginable for (I think) £550. It didn't sell!

I love mine, and it's taught me a lot.

[Roger BestParticipant @rogerbest89007]

Hi Steve, great thread.

It looks like you would have a good selection of lathes from Warco, Chester and them guys in Leicester for your 2 grand.

My two-peneth is that old lathes should be viewed as old cars, they have issues with spares and wear that can affect their usability, but if you consider that as part of your hobby it can be more enjoyable than a new machine that just does the job.

I follow a few Facebook site and the drummondlathe@groups.io and the hard-core restorers would laugh at you for paying so much, but then they spend a few hundred hours making their latest wreck good.

Bottom line is that your original post shows your are happy with your compromise and that is what matters.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Mick B1 on 14/11/2020 10:23:33:

Posted by Steviegtr on 14/11/2020 00:43:05:

….

So i paid £2100 for the Super 7B. What could i have bought with that money from far eastern import. Not a gripe but a genuine question.

Steve.

I have to say, I feel no envy whatever for any other lathe at this time. What I'd quite like is Bridgeport, built at about 2/3 scale…

Edited By Mick B1 on 14/11/2020 10:24:26

My Myford VME is similar to a Bridgeport @ about 2/3 scale but it doesn't have the extending ram or power feed. Plenty of similar mills around.

Tony

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Tony Pratt 1 on 14/11/2020 12:34:31:

Posted by Mick B1 on 14/11/2020 10:23:33:

Posted by Steviegtr on 14/11/2020 00:43:05:

….

So i paid £2100 for the Super 7B. What could i have bought with that money from far eastern import. Not a gripe but a genuine question.

Steve.

I have to say, I feel no envy whatever for any other lathe at this time. What I'd quite like is Bridgeport, built at about 2/3 scale…

Edited By Mick B1 on 14/11/2020 10:24:26

My Myford VME is similar to a Bridgeport @ about 2/3 scale but it doesn't have the extending ram or power feed. Plenty of similar mills around.

Tony

My mate has an older Taiwanese copy of the Myford VME and it is the perfect size for home use. Big enough for "real" work but does not take up half the workshop. Seems to be a good enough machine as it is in constant use in his motorbike restoring business. His has power feed on the table. Possibly an add on.

[JAParticipant @ja]

This topic has concentrated on British, American and Chinese lathes. As far as I can see there have not been any comments on European lathes. While I am not interested in another Myford size lathe (I am supplementing mine with a smaller lathe) I am intrigued with the Wabeco series of lathes. Does anyone have any experience of them?

I have had a Wabeco milling machine for 14 years. It has been completely trouble free.

JA

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Dave Halford on 14/11/2020 10:14:36:

My only issue with Myfords is they are twice the price they should be. Whereas some Asian lathes still come in with dodgy wiring and power boards that pop if you engineer a dig in.

There is no prefect choice unless you could get an Asian CVT style belt drive.

Edited By Dave Halford on 14/11/2020 10:41:43

Its not an either/or situation. You can get a Boxford for less money and its a better lathe.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Steve,

You started a great thread.

Having had a little to do with one, I greatly respect the Raglan 5 inch. In my view, superior to the 7 Series Myford.

I have used a most basic lathe, a Loughborough training lathe. All movements are "mandraulic", but a useable machine. I get on better with it than the Colchester in the same workshop, but that is because of unfamiliarity..

For many years,I had wanted a lathe but could not afford one. One day, a friend, who did a bit of dealing as an aside from his small engineering business had one and kindly sold it to me for what he had paid for it.

That was a ML7. Over time, it acquired upgrades, Micrometer dials, Leadscrew handwheel, long Cross Slide, new countershaft and bushes, and Rodney milling attachment and an early twin swivel vertical slide.

Eventually, frustration with the 2 MT Headstock and the flapping about while milling (Possibly me being too heavy handed ) led to it being sold.

The replacement was / is a heavier, larger (12 x 24 ) far eastern lathe, with a 5 MT Mandrel, and screw on chucks, with locking dogs. With a VFD fitted (wired and programmed ) it was, delivered and placed on the bench, a quarter of the cost of the latest Myford 7 Series, with the same accessories, but no PCF. (2003 prices )

The importer was owned by an ex tool room man, so probably more closely checked quality than most.

It is really Metric, but is dual dialled, so suits me, as mostly, I work in Imperial, because nearly all of my measuring kit is Imperial.

Problems? Yes.

The tumbler reverse gears and spindles were changed under warranty, but still noisy. So, at what seemed great cost, replaced by Nylon ones from a UK gear supplier.

One ball lubricator was totally inaccessible. (Not any more! )

From the outset, it has been more versatile, Power feeds on both axes, Imperial or Metric threads with no more than repositioning a 120 /127T gear. (Sadly, this "rings, but is tolerable. )

What seemed to be belt slip, was a lever slipping on an inadequently dimpled shaft. Fairly easily cured.

Has it been modified? Yes, in small respects.

The bolt for the Fixed Steady has been made captive.

The Thread Indicator dial has been moved, as was the ball oiler, and during the work to repair inattention on my part, the roll pins in both the Leadscrew and Power feed shaft have been replaced by hollow brass shear pins.

The 40T input gear to the Norton box has been replaced by a shop made 80T, to reduce the feed rate.

Having done that, stupidity on my part has caused a couple of scrap threads!

Over all, am I pleased with it? Yes. With a little fine tuning, it does what I want.

(Will never claim to be skilled enough to make models )

With a Tangential turning tool, it surprises me by being able to take cuts as small as 0.0005" a side, or with a carbide tip 0.100" deep.

The accuracy of the handwheel dial on the saddle surprises me.

There are times when I wish that I still had the Myford ML7, as a spare for the times when it would be inadvisable or inconvenient to break down a job in the big lathe. Instead, those eventualities are now covered by a very rarely used, secondhand, relatively new, mini lathe (which has received a few minor mods, of course! )..This lives in the garage, since there is no room for it in the small workshop

Refurbishing a worn old machine? I lack the confidence to do that, being afraid of pulling it apart and after reassembly, not being able to reproduce the accuracy of when it was even fairly new.

I just wouldn't want to bite off more than I could chew.

But faint heart never won fair lady. With care and attention to detail, it can be done. Fine tuning provides a great deal of satisfaction, as well as a machine that may, in some respects surpass what left the factory.

(I have just helped a friend convert the oil sealing arrangements on his elderly far eastern machine to items that are readily available &nbsp

We all differ, and have different needs and aspirations, so each to their own.

Howard.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by JA on 14/11/2020 13:08:40:

This topic has concentrated on British, American and Chinese lathes. As far as I can see there have not been any comments on European lathes. While I am not interested in another Myford size lathe (I am supplementing mine with a smaller lathe) I am intrigued with the Wabeco series of lathes. Does anyone have any experience of them?

I have had a Wabeco milling machine for 14 years. It has been completely trouble free.

JA

I have only heard of that make, do not even know where they are made.

Steve.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Wabeco lathes and milling machines are, I think, Austrian, and imported by Pro Machine Tools, sited a few miles from where I live.

Relative to Chines machines they seem to be more expensive, so one would expect better quality.

A friend bought a Wabeco mill, and I never heard him complain about it. Sadly, he is no longer with us to give any feedback.

The same company also import Emco, Proxxon, and Italian Ceriani lathes.

Quite a few years ago our club visited them, and one of the Wabeco mills had an accessory that inspired me to make what I call an "Infinite Vice"

Howard

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

A good machinist can get better results from a worn out machine than the rest of us using a new one.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by old mart on 14/11/2020 14:10:36:

A good machinist can get better results from a worn out machine than the rest of us using a new one.

Steve.

P.S I am pretty rubbish.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steviegtr on 14/11/2020 13:26:33:

Posted by JA on 14/11/2020 13:08:40:

…

JA

I have only heard of that make, do not even know where they are made.

Steve.

Not knowing where stuff is made is a fact of modern life!

As pretty much anything can be made anywhere, the best place in the world to make anything is where it's cheapest. This changes over time; in my youth Japan and Hong Kong. Today China, but with Vietnam, Korea, India, Indonesia and others challenging their lead. In the same way, Mexico, Brazil and other South American countries make some things cheaper than the Chinese can.

Low end manufacturing is brutally competitive and there isn't much profit in it. For that reason manufacturing nations tend to move up market. Manual lathes haven't been 'up market' technology for about 80 years, and today there is very little demand for them. They're a niche product, which has created a sharp cost divide between affordable hobby equipment and professional gear.

With one exception I don't know of any hobbyist who has bought a new high-end lathe, and none who've bought a professional grade Far Eastern machine tool, probably because these are in the £8000 to £30000 bracket. I'm hard put to find anyone who bought a new Myford either.

Despite many loving their products Myford went bust because people voted against them with their wallets. Myford were caught in a nasty commercial pincer:

• New Far Eastern hobby lathes attractive because they're delivered fully equipped, in a range of sizes and affordable prices, and with a warranty. Not the best machines available, but – bought from reputable suppliers in the UK – a low risk purchase.
• Large numbers of better than Myford lathes dumped in good condition over the last 30 years as industry shifted to CAD/CAM and CNC. Boxford's basic lathe cost about 3 times as much as Myford's most expensive model. And the gap is generally bigger with Colchester's, Harrison's and a host of other professional machines. Second-hand lathes of this type are amazing value, well worth looking at.

I get the feeling many believe British industry to have collapsed due to unfair foreign competition and hanker after a return to 'the good old days' and 'quality' as represented by Myford and other brand-names. Fine in a hobby context, and for historical interest, but unwise as a way of doing business. British industry changed rather than collapsed. By value the UK is the 4th largest manufacturing nation in the world and British manufacturing is more profitable today than it ever was in the past. Although the obvious factories, mills, mines and steel-works have disappeared and many jobs with them, they had become inefficient and unprofitable. The world changes and Industry has to change with it. Follow the money.

There are better symbols of national pride than yesterday's technology. It's what the country does next that matters, not the glorious past.

Dave

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 15/11/2020 11:26:29

[peak4Participant @peak4]

If I was in the market for something Boxford sized, I'd probably be interested in this Model A about half way down the page.
http://www.premiermachinetools.co.uk/

I currently still have my old changewheel Super 7, bought 35 years ago, although a Warco 720 now gets much more use. Essentially a clone S7B which works well enough, but doesn't have the same quality feel of even a well worn genuine one.
The thing I do like about the Warco/Myford is the ability to move tooling and workpieces between machines.
e.g. I've been making some grinding wheel carriers, and the same workpiece, still in the same Gripru, has migrated from the bigger GH1330 – Warco720 – Dore Westbury on a rotary table, and then will move onto the Centec with a dividing head set up with the chuck horizontal.

Bill

Edited By peak4 on 15/11/2020 15:12:47

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

You can get a Boxford for less money and its a better lathe.

Define "better" – I swapped a CUD for a Super 7 as I prefered using the Super 7. I got the Myford at a good price from a machine tool dealer I was doing another job for at about the time I had recently finished refurbishing the CUD which came to me when my father passed away. I reasoned at the time that i would keep the one I prefered to use (the "milling machine fund" was raided to buy the S7) – and the Boxford went.

The big issues with the CUD were getting adequate drive through the link belt required to pass through the coolant tray & the difficulty in sourcing parts and accessories. I never did find a fixed steady for the Boxford, yet picked one up for the Myford at an Autojumble within a month of getting the lathe. Same source for a double swivel vertical slide – both for very reasonable prices. The supposed advantages of the bigger spindle bore on the Boxford have yet to missed (after 20 years or more) & supposed extra rigidity isn't much use if you can't get enough drive to the spindle.

If a fully equipped, clean, un-worn ME10 came up at a bargain price locally I might be tempted, but the S7 does all I want at the moment. I would'nt go for an underdrive Boxford again.

Despite many loving their products Myford went bust because people voted against them with their wallets.

I don't recall that Myford went "bust" – IIRC they elected to cease trading due to the age of the owner ?

Nigel B.

[Author]

Posts