Did i make the right choice buying an old banger Myford lathe.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by Steviegtr on 17/02/2020 19:41:31:

I did have a deeper look at the Chinese lathes. There are so many models. I was under the impression they only sold the ones you can sling under your arm.

Steve.

Took 3 blokes and a length of 4be2 timber to muscle my Warco into the workshop.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Posted by Steviegtr on 15/02/2020 00:24:35:

<SNIP> J Curtis & sons on York Road in Leeds. <SNIP> One day I went down into the cellar. Down there were all the technical drawings for the world war 2 planes. It turns out that Curtis's made a lot of woodwork parts for the Avro factory in Yeadon. AKA Leeds & Bradford airport. These drawings were full scale. Huge in length. <SNIP>

Steve.

Edited By Steviegtr on 15/02/2020 00:26:41

The 1:1 drawings are called "Lofts", produced by "Lofting" This was done in the available large open space – the loft.
A key part is drawning curves with flexible strips called splines held in key points using weights. Used for boats long before aircraft.

Robert G8RPI.

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

super 7b £171

Is that for a bench top machine , does it include a chuck & motor, (which Myford list separately in the May 1955 price list) and Purchase Tax ?

The Super 7 B was not available in 1955, but a standard Super 7 on a stand, with a 1/2 Hp single phase motor, screwed body 4" 3 jaw and 6" 4 jaw chucks, a 4 tool turret and threading dial comes to £127 13s ex works according to the May 1955 price list. UK purchase tax at the time was 33 1/3 % so you would have had to pay £169 15s, which an online "what are 1955 pounds worth today" calculator reckons equates to £4489.60 in todays money.

According to Hansard, a question was asked about the "average industrial wage" in February 1956 – the answer given by Harold Macmillan included " The actual average earnings in April, 1955, the latest date for which figures are available, were £10 17s. 5d. ", which translates to approx £284 in today's money.

So Myfords were never really cheap – just cheaper than the other alternatives at the time ?

Nigel B.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steviegtr on 17/02/2020 19:41:31:

I did have a deeper look at the Chinese lathes. There are so many models. I was under the impression they only sold the ones you can sling under your arm.

Steve.

They also make more than the down-to-a-price hobby models debated on this forum. The dearer machines are an unknown quantity – hobbyists dislike paying too much for the quality they crave!

[Stephen MillwardParticipant @stephenmillward99920]

Super 7b £171 price includes norton box, faceplate, catchplate and 4” backplate – but no motor, no stand, no chucks.

Not sure about tax.

the prices for the boxford and Colchester also chucks

[Stephen MillwardParticipant @stephenmillward99920]

The basic ml7 in 1970 was £94

[Ex contributorParticipant @mgnbuk]

Not sure about tax.

1970 was pre-Vat & still at 33 1/3% Purchase tax. From what I can gather, unlike today where a Vat inclusive price has to be shown, there was no requirement to show prices with the Purchase tax included, so an advertised price would have had the tax on top ?

The basic ex-works price of an ML7 bench lathe (no motor, no chucks) in November 1955 was £51 17/6 without a clutch & £57 3/6 with a clutch. By November 1955 the ML7B was available at £73 no clutch & £78 6s with clutch. The stand was £17 5s extra.

Nigel B.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Well I have been machining all day on my lathe & it was very good all round. I did have to do some machining of some 2" hex to make it round. There is a name you guys use , is it interupted cuts or something. Anyway it did complain a bit but I got it done in the end. It showed a gib strip that needed adjusting on the top slide. So had enough for the day & came in to watch some youtube as usual. I am half way through watching this guy stripping his Brand new mini lathe because it did not run right. I am absolutely flabbergasted as to how the British government allow such equipment to be imported into this country. A death trap in a box. Have a look. I bought a new mini lathe

Steve.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

As a guy who just last week was asking how to use the reverse jaws on his chuck, you might be better off getting some experience on your own machine rather than worrying about the qualities of others. Its all been discussed on here ad infinitum ad nauseum before.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by Hopper on 18/02/2020 01:12:23:

As a guy who just last week was asking how to use the reverse jaws on his chuck, you might be better off getting some experience on your own machine rather than worrying about the qualities of others. Its all been discussed on here ad infinitum ad nauseum before.

oo seems like I hit a raw nerve. Also sound s a bit aluminati.

Steve.

[PeroParticipant @pero]

Bought several lengths of aluminati, 6082 to be precise, at the end of last year – machines very well!

WRT Hopper you might like to read up on his complete re-build of an ML7 which he purchased in full knowledge that it was in distressed condition.

He has a great deal of practical experience which he is always prepared to share and I for one look forward to his posts and almost always learn something useful from them.

Pero

Current owner of Australian, British, Chinese and American lathes and have no axe to grind. Actually I do have two axes that are very blunt and seriously need sharpening – I find the ankle biter to be the most effective for this task.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

The opening 30secs of that video were enough, guy says it was bought very cheaply and thinks it failed quality control. If you did any research you would have seen that we all advise against that way of buying a lathe and suggest getting ones from known suppliers, you make an assumption they are all like that.

The fact that you did not know what was available in the way of Chinese machines seems to suggest your decision was quite ill informed even though you are happy with what you ended up with.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Posted by JasonB on 18/02/2020 07:08:46:

The opening 30secs of that video were enough, guy says it was bought very cheaply and thinks it failed quality control. If you did any research you would have seen that we all advise against that way of buying a lathe and suggest getting ones from known suppliers, you make an assumption they are all like that.

The fact that you did not know what was available in the way of Chinese machines seems to suggest your decision was quite ill informed even though you are happy with what you ended up with.

It was not so much ill informed. I have 2 friends that have them. I did not see them in person I spoke to them. At a meeting. I had heard they had both got one & asked about them. They told me of things they had made on them & I thought of going down that route. It was only when I asked which model would be best, when one of them said. None. The other friend agreed. So I bought a old British one. I think I need to shut up about imported machinery on this forum. It a bad subject.

Steve.

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Posted by Steviegtr on 18/02/2020 12:10:48:

Posted by JasonB on 18/02/2020 07:08:46:

So I bought a old British one. I think I need to shut up about imported machinery on this forum. It a bad subject.

Steve.

Imported new vs used British machines is much like the metric vs imperial debate no right or wrong answer.

Tony

[egaParticipant @ega]

Steviegtr:

Thanks for the link to the interesting YouTube video – some thing of a commercial for WD40 and Lego men!

You can see why ARC used to charge for preparing their machines. It also made me grateful for the comparative refinement of the Myford.

[Alan JacksonParticipant @alanjackson47790]

I thought the video was most illuminating, the quality you get for the price you pay was very obvious. The whole machine is just a set of poorly made parts to a set price, even the screws just about fit the threads. By the way how do you pronounce gib? with a hard G or soft?

Alan

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

Some of the defects in the video appear to be transit damage but we will see if a silk purse can be made out of a sows ear. If the price was right then the remedial work could be regarded as an enjoyable project, if you just want to take it out of the box and crack on with the jobs you bought it for the sorting it out could be an unwelcome task.

Mike

[egaParticipant @ega]

The video caused me to check – gib like the BeeGee or jib like the sailing term?

It seems that the g should be hard despite the rule that i and e soften c and g.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I suppose the problem with Youtube is that a video of a lathe or mill being use straight out of the crate with minimal set up would not make interesting viewing and once you start watching a few rebuild videos you will get targeted with even more so opinions can be swayed.

If you want another youtube session I could direct you to my two channels, you won't find any rebuilds or major reworking of machines but you will find many working engines built on the four far eastern machines that are in my workshop none of which have needed anything more than a quick check over and maybe an adjustment of the gibs and a tweak of the spindle bearings on a couple when first delivered. It is unfortunate that those that get a machine that works OK don't post about it on forums or post videos as much as those who may have a problems some of which may be reflected in them going to a very cheap source with little backup.

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by JasonB on 18/02/2020 13:31:27:

I suppose the problem with Youtube is that a video of a lathe or mill being use straight out of the crate with minimal set up would not make interesting viewing and once you start watching a few rebuild videos you will get targeted with even more so opinions can be swayed.

…

I think the video maker has an agenda to put buyers off these machines by the prospect of the amount of laborious work they'll have to do to make them usable.

The only really serious fault I saw was the slack motor mounting, and that was poor. But a turn or two of a spanner would resolve it.

Edited By Mick B1 on 18/02/2020 14:11:53

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Steviegtr on 18/02/2020 12:10:48:

Posted by JasonB on 18/02/2020 07:08:46:

…

…

They told me of things they had made on them & I thought of going down that route. It was only when I asked which model would be best, when one of them said. None. The other friend agreed. …

Steve.

Could be a misunderstanding? If you ask me which Chinese Model is best, I'd say 'none' too!

But I don't mean they're all complete rubbish, I mean the hobby machines are all similar. Built to a common set of designs to roughly the same specification. It's not like the good old days when Myford were obviously better value for money than the opposition. Remember though that most pre-war hobby lathes weren't very good. Some too cheaply made, many tiny, most lacking features, with unguarded gears, risky bearings and everything extra, including the motor! If you wanted a good lathe before Myford, choice was limited unless a grown-up machine was bought. Far too expensive for most.

The debate is endless because Far Eastern hobby machines are aimed at chaps like me who enjoy metalwork and find it useful, but don't need or want to spend big money on fancy equipment. It's safer to buy new rather than second-hand because of the warranty, and there's plenty of choice to suit the space available: I bought the biggest machine that would fit in my workshop, for which a Super 7 is on the small side.

I'm not doing production work and minor shortcomings don't annoy me. To me Far Eastern tools are disposable, replace when needed, and I'm not worried that my kids will lose value disposing of my workshop when the time comes – straight in the skip with it!

I'm happy with tools provided they do what I need. And despite imperfections and a need for TLC, Far Eastern tools do! I'd rather make things than chase perfection or indulge nostalgia.

Couple of times I've been on the edge of "Myford as status symbol" conversations at exhibitions. It's quite funny to see proud Myford owners demolished by chaps who own proper lathes, like a Dean, Grace and Smith! Don't care myself – others have every right to do as they please with their money and workshops.

The acid test is this: can anyone tell the difference between a model engine made on a Myford and the same engine made on a Far Eastern machine?

Dave

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 18/02/2020 15:25:22:

…

Couple of times I've been on the edge of "Myford as status symbol" conversations at exhibitions. It's quite funny to see proud Myford owners demolished by chaps who own proper lathes, like a Dean, Grace and Smith! Don't care myself – others have every right to do as they please with their money and workshops.

…

Dave

…but not to suggest their possession makes them a better engineer. Personally, I wasn't especially impressed by the DSG the Govt. Training Centre got a few weeks before I finished my course there. It seemed to lack some of the useful features of the Elliott I'd been using, and had potentially-damaging traps for the unwary. It was just another centre lathe as far as I could see.

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I know quite a few model engineers. One particular guy who lives near me was always in his workshop. I spent a lot of time in there with him , watching the making of parts for his engines.

I was always amazed at the quality of everything he made. Even down to painting & pinstriping flywheels. He has two old huge lathes. But irrespective you can not take it away from the engineer doing the work. So i agree with many comments above that it does not matter what you use as long as the outcome is what you expect.

Also i recently bought a set of 5 insert bit toolholders from a jumble brand new for £30. At another stall there was a woman selling individual ones for £18. She would not budge on price. So i bought from the Asian gent outside. The woman had said to me he sells cheap chinese rubbish. I have been using them for 2 weeks now & they are great. Strange thing is, i bet the ones she was selling were also from Asia. Who else makes tooling now.

Steve.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by ega on 18/02/2020 13:12:42:

The video caused me to check – gib like the BeeGee or jib like the sailing term?

It seems that the g should be hard despite the rule that i and e soften c and g.

Gibbon, gillie, celtic, gillyflower. There are always exceptions and names, such as the Gibb brothers, are ever present – especially if they are inventors!

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

It's a good job my wages weren't dependant on my spelling.

Steve.

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