Diamond tool holder

[Andrew CrowParticipant @andrewcrow91475]

<p style=”text-align: left;”>Hello All, I am considering purchasing a diamond tool holder for the Myford, but as they are quite expensive, just wondered what thoughts others who have used them have as to value for money/ usefulness.</p>
Andy

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

They are ok for people who cannot grind a HSS tool, they only need the top face grinding, they also stick out a long way from the toolpost. Everyone seems to rave about them so I must be missing something.

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

I have one, it’s good, but not the complete answer to everything. It probably gets used 85% of the time.

Rob

[VicParticipant @vic]

I use mine a lot. I’m quite capable of grinding HSS tools but it’s so quick and easy for the Diamond tool and uses up small pieces of HSS.

Having said that I mostly use my home made version. The commercial one only comes out if I need to use carbide for something tough. This is one of my home made ones.

[VicParticipant @vic]

I should have said that the commercial one takes round and square tool bits. My home made one only accepts square. Hence my comment above. I’ve used old broken carbide mills from work with the commercial tool.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Not used one myself as I prefer carbide inserts.  I reserve HSS for form tools and the rare occasions when carbide struggles to get a good finish.

For what it’s worth I don’t recall diamond cutters ever getting a bad review: people like them.   They don’t say ‘Rubbish. complete waste of money, avoid!‘

Apart from doing a good job with standard turning, grinding is simplified.  That’s good for cack-handed clumsy unfortunates like me.  I am not alone.  Not being good at grinding isn’t unusual and perhaps others also feel that there are better ways of wasting our time!

Dave

 

 

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Hi Vic,

I have sent you a PM,

Regards

Gray,

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

Apart from doing a good job with standard turning, grinding is simplified.  That’s good for cack-handed clumsy unfortunates like me.  I am not alone.  Not being good at grinding isn’t unusual and perhaps others also feel that there are better ways of wasting our time!

They’re excellent for beginners being between a properly ground HSS tool and a quality carbide one. Note the properly and quality in that sentence; when learning you want as many variables to be as right as possible to eliminate problems. Grinding your own tool is the variable that you have the least amount of control over. Similarly, carbide tools are expensive and easily damaged if mistreated. Beginners can mistreat them without even realising.

 

Anyone who can successfully grind their own tools isn’t going to get the full benefit, and once you learn how to not wreck carbide the costs go down.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

If importing from Australia to UK watch out for import duty, which isn’t a lot, and handling charge, which is a rip off. £20 last time I got nobbled.

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Since making one or two of my own, (for 18″ and 5/16″ toolbits) I took up a special offer at a show just before the UK agent ceased trading.

Since then have used it for most of the time, except for roughing or boring. (Both those tools use CCMT0604 carbide inserts)

Have taken cuts between 0.050″ and 0.0005″ depth, at various times

There are two DIY designs, the second avoids trying to mill at compound angles by putting in the tool slot before machining the tool shank to a trapezoidal shape to incorporate a 12 degree angle.

Have made at least four for other lathes. No complaints that they don’t work.

Grinding is a quick job, once the simple jig has been made  Again two designs, the DIY (Simple) one and a copy of the commercial one, which is a little more complicated, but works well.

Forgot to say the the HSS toolbits last well, having bought the commercial one, some time ago, still haven’t worn out the second 1/4″ toolbit yet.

Howard

 

[VicParticipant @vic]

Sometimes I’ll use whatever happens to be in the tool block. If it’s a carbide insert tool though and I need to cut a sharp shoulder it has to come out to be replaced with one of my diamond tools.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

I wish people would stop making it sound like grinding HSS was in any way difficult – kit puts beginners off and they end up buying crappy carbide sets off ebay.
The special shape for these tools is more difficult so why not just make a basic knife tool. If you can make the special grinding jig then equally you can make a jig for the normal tool if you feel a jig is necessary.

[Andrew CrowParticipant @andrewcrow91475]

Thanks for all your speedy responses everyone, based on the cost plus import duty etc and the fact that I have been grinding tools by hand for over 60 years it would probably not be worth me buying one.

However, thanks to Vic and Howard’s suggestions it may well be worth making one or two.

Andy.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

Had one for some years it’s the tool I use most and with it being easy to grind is a big plus

H

[Bazyle]

On Bazyle Said:

I wish people would stop making it sound like grinding HSS was in any way difficult – kit puts beginners off and they end up buying crappy carbide sets off ebay.

I wish people would stop saying grinding HSS is easy!  Beginners often have unnecessary trouble learning how to grind.  It’s a skill requiring good eye hand coordination, and not everyone has it.

I use HSS and Carbide.  They both work, but carbide is more convenient.  It’s also much less delicate than some believe!  Yes, including heavy interrupted cuts.

Consider the proposition ‘No beginner will find HSS in any way difficult‘.  Is it TRUE or FALSE?

Answer: it’s FALSE.  If anyone believes it’s true, please explain why.

🙂

Dave

PS.  Everyone is free to use carbide inserts, brazed carbide, CBN, HSS or carbon steel as they want.

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I used my diamond holder all the time, excellent.  I have quite a large radius on the corner as they can be prone to chipping.  I also have a small version I made myself with a much sharper corner for jobs that need it.

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

I wish people would stop saying grinding HSS is easy!  Beginners often have unnecessary trouble learning how to grind.  It’s a skill requiring good eye hand coordination, and not everyone has it.

Consider the proposition ‘No beginner will find HSS in any way difficult‘.  Is it TRUE or FALSE?

Answer: it’s FALSE.  If anyone believes it’s true, please explain why.

 

Dave, I would never say that freehand grinding of HSS tools is easy, however like all hand skills it takes time to learn, the more you practice the easier it becomes.

We didn’t have a choice when I was an apprentice all those years ago we had to learn how to grind HSS and brazed Carbide tools.

These days there are so many alternatives and everyone can make their own choice and there’s nothing wrong with that.

I just have a good stock of HSS and also make specials from silver steel where necessary and people coming new to the hobby need to be aware that they can also do this as a cheaper alternative to carbide inserts.

Andy

[SillyOldDuffer]

On SillyOldDuffer Said:

Consider the proposition ‘No beginner will find HSS in any way difficult‘.  Is it TRUE or FALSE?

False, no question about it. However, knowing how to grind a cutter is an extremely valuable skill that should be learned early on. And not only for those days when you break your last insert or the job that can only be solved with a custom cutter.

It teaches you the basics of cutting geometry, and you cannot become a proficient machinist without having a firm grasp of that. So start with HSS, not because it’s easy but because it isn’t.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

I have just ordered the 1/4 inch one for my S7 lathe. I have had the lathe since early 1987. I also added the Crobalt steel in round and square, and the sharpening tool holder as well. The cost is about 2 packets of carbide inserts in round numbers. It will definitely have some real advantages for sure.

The biggest advantage is the economy of  sharpening the end of the steel. Conventional tools are quite wasteful in comparison, and the setup is quite rigid as well. We have them at work since the late 80’s. We also have the other holders for HSS that holds the piece already in a way that only the front relief is required to be ground.

The diamond is a variation of this, but they work way better. I like that for plastics, a dremel and a diamond mounted point, can be used to grind in the small little rake hook to get a very sharp edge that will make the plastic curl and break it’s chip. Except nylon always want to string. Then when a resharpen is required, the grooves only requires a touch up and its all sharp again after a top grind/lap.

I plan on one piece for plastics, and the other for general materials.

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

Just my 2p worth.

I almost universally use a diamond tool holder for turning and facing on both the Harrison and the Myford.

However I am not too keen on using the supplied sharpening jig as it leaves a hollow topped tool due to the grinding wheel radius. I tend to set up my Union tool & cutter grinder and do a batch of tools with a truly flat top face, I can then easily give them a quick touch up with a flat diamond hone to get a super finish, I can hone them a few times before they need a re-grind, and I find that they last ages. I grind the tool bits at both ends, so all I need to do is flip them over to get a brand new tool.

Also I have found that Deloro Stellite 100 stays sharp way longer than normal HSS.

Phil P

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

Phil P ,

Have you tried their Crobalt material?  I too find that Stellite lasts way longer than HSS , especially when boring in the mill.

Neil

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

I have made 2 of those type tool holders. One has a High Speed tool bit for when a delicate cut must be made. the other has a brazed carbide tool bit in it as I used to do a job in some abrasive plastics and it helped make the edge last longer.

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

The Diamond toolholder was also sold in the UK and there used to be an advertisement on MEW. Not sure where but a quick search found this link. (You could also contact Eccentric Eng for contact)

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/eccentric-engineering-diamond-toolhoolholder.117282/

 

 

[Phil P]

On Phil P Said:

 

However I am not too keen on using the supplied sharpening jig as it leaves a hollow topped tool due to the grinding wheel radius.

Phil P

No, nor was I. I made one similar to this and use it with a belt grinder.

[Paul Lousick]

On Paul Lousick Said:

The Diamond toolholder was also sold in the UK and there used to be an advertisement on MEW. Not sure where but a quick search found this link. (You could also contact Eccentric Eng for contact)

https://www.mig-welding.co.uk/forum/threads/eccentric-engineering-diamond-toolhoolholder.117282/

 

 

Got my tool holder in the UK Eccentric had a dealer over here a relation Tanya ********* sister or sister in law I believe however she is no longer acting as agent.

H

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