Deliberate mistakes

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

Is it made of Aluminum?

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

OK. I've got to have my say. According to me apostrophes are used to indicate omitted words or letters.

So if I wanted to write Martin his lathe which is correct but clumsy I could write Martin's lathe which is more normal and closer to what is actually pronounced. So with St James' Park that would be St James his Park. You could write James's but that would be silly as you already have enough to tell you how to pronounce it.

So Mike Checkley his Arbors becomes Mike Checkley's Arbors with the apostrophe indicating the missing hi. Nothing to do with plurality of Mike or arbors in this case.

regards Martin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 16/05/2016 09:37:52:

OK. I've got to have my say. According to me apostrophes are used to indicate omitted words or letters.

.

No offence intended, Martin … but I think that's the problem. ^^^

Apostrophes have two uses [1] as you suggest, and [2] to indicate possession.

The use is 'prioritised' … which is where it gets interesting.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: here is a reasonably concise summary.

… and another.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/05/2016 09:58:58

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 16/05/2016 10:04:29

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

They really don't . They only indicate missing characters. It's the his that creates the possession.

Martin

[Gordon WParticipant @gordonw]

I was taught– "when in doubt ,leave it out ", this in regard to the apostrophe .Works well for me.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 16/05/2016 10:01:38:

They really don't . They only indicate missing characters. It's the his that creates the possession.

Martin

.

So … If the arbors had belonged to Mary; would they be Mary Checkley'r Arbors ?

[deriving from her, rather than his] … or is all possession masculine ?

MichaelG.

[Anders.BParticipant @anders-b]

Just read the hole thread and now I need to by a package of aspirint.

Anders

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Good question

Probably replaces Mary hers (not his) ?

Martin

PS shouldn't that be aspi'RANT' Anders

;0)

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

So if I wanted to write Martin his lathe which is correct but clumsy…

How do you find "Martin his lathe" to be correct? Never will you hear someone utter that phrase. Why would you use the pronoun (his) in the same sentence as the noun it refers back to? Right next to it in fact. It make's no sense at all to say "Martin his lathe".

Do you have a reference for this useage of his? Maybe it was some archaic use? Or is it a construction of your own?

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Five days and five pages of posts, and the OP is yet to reveal what the alleged deliberate mistakes on the front cover were.

It seems there was none.

[MWParticipant @mw27036]

What more is why would the alleged mistake be deliberate? doesn't that detract from the whole idea of a mistake? Who would be trying to screw around with their own readership like that?

Michael W

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

It is archaic. Probably originally a Latin construct come down through French or German etc, but that's language for you (apostrophe instead of (i) ).

You could also write "the Lathe of Martin" if you don't want to use apostrophes. My basic argument is you have to try to take the ' out and replace the original characters or words in order to check correct usage and meaning. It works for me as a tool.

I did say this was "according to me" and that was only secondary school english. I don't profess to be a professor.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

This may help

Have a go at :-

**LINK**

Shows you how the possessive came down from the German.

Regards Martin

[MikeParticipant @mike89748]

Martin, I don't profess to be a professor either, but what gives me constant entertainment is what seems to be known as the "greengrocer's apostrophe." There's one outside a farm near where I live advertising "musheroom's" and other produce, all with an apostrophe. The guy deserves full marks for growing really tasty mushrooms, but zero for the use of English.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Michael Walters on 16/05/2016 12:05:10:

What more is why would the alleged mistake be deliberate? doesn't that detract from the whole idea of a mistake? Who would be trying to screw around with their own readership like that?

Michael W

Indeed. A mistake can't really be deliberate can it?

Perhaps Bubble will return and englighten us one day.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Martin Kyte on 16/05/2016 12:18:17:

It is archaic. Probably originally a Latin construct come down through French or German etc, but that's language for you (apostrophe instead of (i) ).

You could also write "the Lathe of Martin" if you don't want to use apostrophes. My basic argument is you have to try to take the ' out and replace the original characters or words in order to check correct usage and meaning. It works for me as a tool.

I did say this was "according to me" and that was only secondary school english. I don't profess to be a professor.

OK, yes a useful tool. But I don't remember anyting like it in my distant and dim highschool French or Latin. And the Germans used the -es in your other link. I think you can claim this one as your own. Good memory aid.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Wow, Corporate IT blocked access to your link Mike so must be juicy.

The grammar problem that is getting to me at the moment is the below reference. The Indians at work read that it is technically correct but don't understand that it is not like the above reference and not good colloquial English.

I wonder how many of you get what I'm talking about above and think below is an adjective.

Edited By Bazyle on 16/05/2016 13:15:30

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Hopper on 16/05/2016 11:53:30:

Do you have a reference for this useage of his? Maybe it was some archaic use? Or is it a construction of your own?

.

Hopper,

In support of Martin's case …

This usage is [was] fairly common on bookplates

Here is a nice example … there are many more.

MichaelG.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Michael Walters on 16/05/2016 12:05:10:

What more is why would the alleged mistake be deliberate? doesn't that detract from the whole idea of a mistake? Who would be trying to screw around with their own readership like that?

Michael W

There's a long tradition of claiming errors are in fact 'deliberate mistakes' with tongue firmly in cheek.

I suspect that in this case the reference is to the artistic use of photo-retouching to get rid of a rather pedestrian background, creating a possibly anomalous perspective. I would point out, though, that the Anvil is, no doubt, a big one properly mounted on a large chunk of tree and quite happily to scale.

Neil

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Just a thought, one type of deliberate mistake is used to catch out map-copyright snatchers called 'trap streets' they are fake features that help prove copying has taken place.

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Neil, it's not just the size of the anvil but the height it is mounted at due to the perspective being all wrong.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Bazyle on 16/05/2016 13:14:47:

Wow, Corporate IT blocked access to your link Mike so must be juicy.

The grammar problem that is getting to me at the moment is the below reference. The Indians at work read that it is technically correct but don't understand that it is not like the above reference and not good colloquial English.

I wonder how many of you get what I'm talking about above and think below is an adjective.

Edited By Bazyle on 16/05/2016 13:15:30

Hi Bazlye,

I guess it should be "the reference below"? Or are you referring to the difference between "Above/Below" and "Over/Under".

I wonder what 'The Times' 's opinion would be?

I like to be pragmatical about these things. I used to drive a peppery colleague bonkers by using "practically" for "almost". He never twigged I was doing it on purpose! (He was spot on about my misuse of semicolons though; a habit I've never broken.)

Cheers,

Dave

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 16/05/2016 14:31:11:

Just a thought, one type of deliberate mistake is used to catch out map-copyright snatchers called 'trap streets' they are fake features that help prove copying has taken place.

Neil

In my days as part of a Mountain Leader Training Team, we found a couple of these 'deliberate errors'. It was good fun getting trainees who were a bit full of themselves to try to find these features.

Edited By duncan webster on 16/05/2016 16:20:32

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by JasonB on 16/05/2016 16:10:24:

Neil, it's not just the size of the anvil but the height it is mounted at due to the perspective being all wrong

Yes but as I say, it's about creating an attractive cover, not geometric precision. Compare Issue 226 where the laws of physics are being broken…

[Author]

Posts