Dekel fp1

[nathan talbotParticipant @nathantalbot71483]

Hi

Ive been offered a deckel FP1 milling machine, but its going to cost around 1000

the machine appers to be in good working order and i am going to have a good look at it on viewing just wanted to see if this is a reasonable price

I think its a later machine that has the lever speed control not the dials, they have a good rightup on lathes.co.uk

just wanted to see if would be a good buy

Nathan

[nathan talbotParticipant @nathantalbot71483]

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by nathan talbot on 24/12/2015 16:55:01:

Ive been offered a deckel FP1 milling machine, but its going to cost around 1000

the machine appers to be in good working order …

… just wanted to see if would be a good buy

.

Form an orderly queue, Chaps.

MichaelG.

[Michael ToppingParticipant @michaeltopping17870]

Nathan

Deckels were my favourite mill to work on, very accurate, so if it is in reasonable condition I think 1000 is a bargain. Much more versatile than a Bridgeport. They came with various types of vertical head and different milling tables what type gas this one got with it?

Michael

[nathan talbotParticipant @nathantalbot71483]

It has the vertical head with it and a clarkson autolock chuck but thats it i know there are lots of other kit for them but that is why i expect its 1000 i also have to convert to single phase

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

If you go ahead with the purchase consider keeping the 3 phase. Chinese VFD inverters are around £100 and you get smoother running. I have used various Deckle machines, all very accurate. You may depending on spindle taper get an ER chuck for it, much nicer than the Autolock.

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

I dont know if I misunderstood your post re the speed control.

The early machines had the levers and the later ones had the dials.

I have an Alexander Master Toolmaker myself, which is pretty much the same machine as a Deckel FP1. I cannot praise it highly enough and depending on what tooling you get with it you will be able to do most jobs that you can think of, and even more that you havn't even dreamed of yet.

Phil

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

Nathan Like Phil I have an Alexander, which came with a 2 speed 3 phase 380/420v motor fitted. This would not work with my Transwave 3 phase converter for reasons I cannot remember ( I failed principles of Electricity at Tech), and would not work with an 240v inverter either, so I fitted a new 240v 3 phase motor which was very easy to do controlled by an inverter and also a stand alone single phase suds pump and tank, all very easy to do, and easy to use. The Deckel may be different, but if not this is a good solution.

Chris Gunn

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Reading lathes co uk I get the impression it uses a separate 2 speed motor for feeds and yet another single speed motor for milling. It mentions that the max milling speed is rather low for smaller diameter cutters.

If so the milling motor might be dual voltage so could be driven directly with an inverter. Or if pure 440v a single speed motor could be driven with a Transwave unit. These are fine if the instructions are followed. An inverter would allow the max speed to be increased. I would have thought that increasing the original 1900 rpm to 2,850 by driving up to 75Hz would be fine. Personally I wouldn't go any higher than that but some do. A lot of people also go for a more powerful motor when they convert like this so that the power is still there when it's slowed down. Personally I never run mine below 40Hz. People do go lower but only for very short periods.

You could also fit a 240v motor and add some sort of pulley arrangement to get more speed.

If it does use a dual speed motor for feed you might be stuck with changing it to a singles speed and then lacking the faster feed rates or not having the slower ones. It is possible to buy dual speed 240v motors but they are rather expensive. Looking at these some time ago there may be more than one type in terms of HP at each of the speeds. Not sure about that aspect.

Deckel get round the high speed aspect by offering a different head with it's own drive motor. My guess is that they wouldn't be selling it if it had this and all was ok.

All that running small cutters at lower speeds means is slower feed rates really. If it's in good order I wouldn't let that aspect put me off. I would want both the horizontal and vertical heads – trying to find these used could be something of a problem. Some wouldn't be bothered by not having the horizontal head but they are more ideal for certain types of work. eg During training I made a V block on one that didn't show any improvement in accuracy after is was ground.

John

–

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

The machine as standard has just the one two speed motor, this drives the horizontal spindle, and then if fitted the vertical head and slotting head.

The feed screws are also powered by the same motor, the actual feed rate can be changed by swapping pairs of gears inside the main column of the machine.

The high speed head is an absolute "must" for smaller cutters, I was extremely fortunate to find one for my machine after I had owned it for a few years, and I have not seen one for sale since I bought it.

I rigged this die grinder up for a while prior to getting the h.s.h.

Phil

[nathan talbotParticipant @nathantalbot71483]

Hi Guys

THanks for all the info a lot to digest

upon closer insepection the machine just has the vertical head which is run off the main 3 phase unit so i am really unsure what to do I am a complete novice and i also no very little about converting the 3 phase so im starting to think this machine may not be for me at the price??

Nathan

[Nigel McBurney 1Participant @nigelmcburney1]

The deckel series of precision milling machines were possibly the finest and most accurate miling machines ever made,it would be foolish to turn it down at that price.i last used one 50 years and do not recall anyone complaining about the speed range being too low,and we did not have the high speed head,nowadays people are obsessed with cutting at umpteen rpm, it is not necessary, for our kind of model making ,high speeds became necessary to take advantage of high tech cutters too reduce the time taken to do a job to reduce cost,what does it matter if the amateur takes a bit longer to do a job.

[Phil PParticipant @philp]

One big advantage of using the high speed head is just how quiet it runs compared to the standard head and all the associated gear noise. I agree that you can manage without one, I did for years, but it certainly makes the machine nicer to use.

If you can get a good Deckel FP1 for that sort of money, then go for it. You could spend a "little bit less" and get a Chinese bench top mill, but believe me they are not in the same school, let alone same class.

Dont worry too much about it being three phase, mine runs on a single phase 1HP motor, and it is dead easy to change the motor.

Phil

Edited By Phil P on 27/12/2015 16:59:02

[nathan talbotParticipant @nathantalbot71483]

Hi guys

I've managed to buy the machine and am now trying to figure out the best way of powering the machine as I don't have three phase I know you have mentioned it above but do you have so piccies and more details like I have said I'm a complete novice so am unsure on a lot of things

Also the original motor is huge and makes it difficult for space apparently others have mounted new motors to the side have anyone done this?

Thanks

Nathan

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

FYI, Yahoo will probbly have an FP1 users site

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

I have a Deckel clone. I threw away the motor cover, reduced the machines depth by at least 3" and allowing the belts to be changed without moving the machine ( put shelves over the motor?). At this stage I would buy a secondhand 1 HP motor and a pulley and use them temporarily. My one came with the dual speed 415V motor and a broken static converter, After one motor rewind ( £154) I fixed the converter. One thing worth thinking about is a hoist to handle the lifting on and off of the vertical head, its sharp and shiny and heavy!

Frank

[Brian ToddParticipant @briantodd]

I love mine, considered selling it and asked a tool dealer if he would come and take it away for £750. He said I wanted silly money for it so it's now stripped and on s trailer in a garage awaiting a new location. Just camt part with even if it's not going to be used in a year or two.

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