Danfoss Starter Switch

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

Hi can some one tell me how this should be wired.

The diagram shows that the motor starts only by pressing the hatch bar,the green start button does not work

If the wire from the green start is taken to number 1 the green start works but the hatched bar goes in and out quickly does not lock in together with smoke and sparks

With out the loop nothing works

Any ideas

Thanks

Dave.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Dave,

This looks like another case where you need to find someone with electrical knowlege close enough for you to visit with the switch for them to identify the connections. If you live close enough to me I will try to help you.

Les.

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

Thanks Les

Nr Abergavenny

Dave

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Hi, Dave,

The Danfoss Website has some technical information for contactor breakers which appear to be similar to your drawing – If you cannot get any local help, perhaps you can identify your contactor breaker type, and take a look at their technical information. This link takes you to the site.

http://www.danfoss.com/United_Kingdom/BusinessAreas/IndustrialAutomation/Products/Literature/IA/Contactors-and-Motor-Starters/Circuit-breakers/CTI-15-Circuit-breakers/93f725b4-0729-40ca-94e6-3a87d792cf52.html

Sorry if this long link b*****s up the text/adverts – I can't be bothered to work out how to use a shorter link in this terrible software – lifes too short..

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

Thanks Wotsit

Been there its like a jungle one needs to be a rocket sciencetist to plough through that site.

But cheers mate.

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

Forgot to mark wires to original post diagram

Supply is L-1 N-5

Motor is L-2 N-6

Dave

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Dave,

Without knowing the switch type, it is hard to be 100% sure, but I think you have a 3-pole switch (1 to 2, 3 to 4, 5 to 6). This fits with your labelling, connecting live and neutral to the motor, but the connections to 3 and 4 are a bit harder to identify. I cannot identify the green operating 'unit' – according to Danfoss, this could be undervoltage or overcurrent protection, or even a separate auxiliary 'add-on' contact. If it is a 3-pole switch, then the connection from 3, through the green start button, and the loop 2-4 do not seem to be strictly necessary, and the switch would work simply by pressing the 'hatched' bar.

Sorry if this is confusing – this is why I strongly suggest looking for a type number on the switch. If you search for it on the Danfoss site, nearly all their products have a downloadable PDF tech sheet, which shows connection details.

Failing that, they also have a technical assistance department to answer online queries about their products – even an expert would need technical details to correctly identify connections.

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi Dave,

You will know from my profile that we live too far apart but now others know your location there may be someone else that can offer to help. Do you have any electrical knowlege and do you have a multimeter ? Can you post some pictures from all six faces of the switch ? From the fact that the contactor chatters in and out when the start button is pressed suggests that there is a set of normally closed contacts connected in series with the coil the way you have it connected. The smoke suggests that the coil is designed for a lower voltage than than the voltage you are using in your application. Is there a voltage rating for the coil marked on the unit and what voltage are you using in your application ?

Les.

[brian goldsmithParticipant @briangoldsmith20924]

hi dave,

usualy these starters are modular in design, contactor, start button, and overload with the stop button. they usualy use the same numbering system for the electrical conections. are there any numbers/letters on the terminals of the start stop switch? your diagramme does not appear to have an overload unit, what is the power rating of the motor?

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi watsit,

To avoid displaying the full URL first highlight some text you have typed in then click on the link button. For example watsits link In this case I highlighted "watsits link" before clicking on the link button.

After looking at your link and assuming Dave's contacter is three pole normaly open contacts then the contacts 3 – 4 must be shorting out the output an putting the full supply voltage accross one of the thermal trips which would explain the smoke and sparks. I also suspect that the buttons may not be start and stop but something like test and reset.

Les.

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

If that switch were contactor.

1 — 2

3 — 4

5— 6

where are the armature connections ?

think of thing as large relay.

normally wired so one contact set powers "coil" with green push button( NO) wired in parralel abd red opush button in series (NC)

{reaches for pen to make sketch….}

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Les,

Thanks for the info – but this forum software is so bad that I cannot be bothered to try it – I do this for pleasure, not penance, and if the site owners cannot get off their a****s and sort it out so it is easy to use, then I can't be bothered either – but thanks for your input.

I agree with you about the other connections on the switch, but without more information, we are just guessing. I don't want to be responsible for electrocuting the guy, all I am trying to do is point out a way to go. As I have already pointed out, Danfoss has a technical advice service, and excellent documentation on their site, so it makes sense to look there. (I have no connection to Danfoss).

It seems this is a variation on the old 'Instructions? Wwhat instructions? – Oh,  I never read them, they're always too complicated!

Edited By wotsit on 25/04/2012 13:05:24

Edited By wotsit on 25/04/2012 13:09:58

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi wotsit,

I suspect even Danfos will not be able to help without a model number. I suspect either of us could sort it out in a few minutes with the item in front of us.

Les.

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

Ok chaps thanks for all your help,the foll owing may give you more assistance.

Its a Danfoss C19 9A Stop-start-reset. off Coronet Lathe.

Because the green button does not work i replaced the module with new….to no effect.

Yet switch works fine by pushing in hatch bar when wired as diagram.

The start module is numbered 3 at top 4 at bottom but never has been moved from its position when it worked on button…but does not go to 4 terminal & disappears underneath.A local motor rewind chap failed to sort it out, & the local sparkies are domestic wire chaps.

The only time you get a response from the green button is when 3 goes to 1.

I hope this helps.

Thank you

Dave.

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

 

Are there any safety interlocks or cut outs fitted to this machine, i.e. a locking emergency stop button which might be holding the control circuit off?

 

By following this link there is a 28 page Danfoss technical data sheet available for the range of contactors which includes the CI-9, this would probably help an Electrician sort things out.

Danfoss link

 

Edited By V8Eng on 25/04/2012 19:44:58

Edited By V8Eng on 25/04/2012 19:46:02

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

Thanks V8 if as you say locked out whats needed to unlock? also the start module or aux contact 4 goes to stop terminal.

Dave

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Some emergency stop buttons lock in when pushed and need twisting or some similar action or even a key to release them.

Hope this is not teaching granny to suck eggs, but did you operate the reset before trying anything else?

 

 

Edited By V8Eng on 25/04/2012 19:52:46

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

Hi V8 Stop is a spring loaded square ie no twist.

How do i reset ?

Dave

[Keith Wardill 1Participant @keithwardill1]

Hi, Dave,

Apperently there is a CI 9 three pole contact breaker made by Danfoss (not C19). There is a connection diagram in their documentation Here

You can download the PDF User Guide (last document in the list of 4) This contains a circuit diagram of the switch, although it does not seem to correspond exactly to what you have described. The unit at the side appears to be a Thermal overload trip.

Perhaps you can take a look at it, and see if it corresponds to your switch. I would disconnect the connections to Terminals 3 (connection to Start button) and 4 (the loop) of the main switch. This should leave you with a simple switch, operated by your hatched bar. If that seems OK, then the User guide should help you to reconnect the thermal overload.

As Les Jones said earlier, it looks as though somehow it has been connected so as to put the supply voltage directly across the thermal switch hence your sparks and smoke. Any information you have would help – can you post a sketch of the connections between switch and motor? Did the green 'Start' button ever work? Did anything happen at the time it stopped working – and most important – has anyone 'fixed' it since it failed (and maybe changed a connection! )

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Hi.

I do not think you should be operating this by the hatched bar, from what I remember that is just the fixing for auxillary switches and you should not be operating by pushing mechanical parts of the contactor or with the cover off either.

Surprised the motor rewinder did not know any industrial type electricians.

Years since I worked with anything like this so am unwilling to go any further with advice, really do think you need some proper help, electrics can be lethal if you do not know what you are doing!

 

 

 

Edited By V8Eng on 25/04/2012 20:45:52

[David CostelloParticipant @davidcostello75947]

Thanks V8 yes your right i thought that they may have been a glaringly obvious mistake with the wiring. Ill hunt around for the right man.

Cheers

Dave

[Brit-car -fanParticipant @brit-car-fan]

Hello Dave,

Very late for a reply I suppose, but I've only just seen your post.

When I rebuilt my Boxford BUD lathe (Danfoss T 16 / C 10 contactor) I mapped the electrics, so this may be of some help For URL on photobucket, or

[frank brownParticipant @frankbrown22225]

The basic unit is not a switch, its a 3 pole contactor. Its got a coil to actuate it (NOT the hashed button) or there would be nothing to hold it in. So turn the thing on its side and find two contacts sticking out of the coil, which also will have the operating voltage on it. If the operating voltage is 230V, then it can be wired from the mains live to one side of the coil via the normally closed "off" contacts. The other side of the coil goes to the incoming mains neutral. So now, pushing the green button should put mains on the coil which pulls in the armature and switches the mains through to the motor. Releasing the green button should allow the armature to drop out and the motor stops. Not quite what you want!, so anoth set of the main contacts is wired to the mains on the input side, and the output side is wired to the junction of the ON switch and the OFF switch.

Now when you press the N switch the contactor pulls in and routes mains to the coil so releasing the ON switch has no effect. Pressing the OFF switch breaks the supply to the coil, so the armature drops out and every thing stops.

If you have the thermal over loads then the switch/ contacts from them is simply in series with the coil, so its like another OFF switch .

Frank

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