D1-3 spindle nose adaptor

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

Yes, it's a Burnerd Multisize chuck. Very nice and accurate (and solid). Recommended if you can find one with D1-3 mount in MEW ads (keep your eyes open). This is the key operated version. I also have the lever operated version but it's only sensible for repetition work which I never do – too much of a gadfly.

Muzzer

[Christoph SchulerParticipant @christophschuler18578]

Hello Muzzer

I'm from Switzerland.
Sorry for my bad English.
Do you have a drawing with the exact contour of the locking bolt and screw-in camlock from size 3?
We want to grow this change in our system working robot.
Unfortunately, I find no drawings on the exact geometry of the bolt and the material and the hardening process.

I can not wait for your answer

Greetings Christoph

[Willliam PowellParticipant @willliampowell36769]

Sorry to dredge up the dark past here. I joined this site specifically for this post. Hopefully you don't mind helping out an old Yank.

I have a 1948 Clausing 111, and I despise the threaded spindle nose. Never liked them. This lathe had been relegated to being used for winding coil springs. She was tired and busted up. fortunately the castings were not in bad shape, and the bed cleaned up with a light stoning and mild scrape. The spindle is another matter, as it is bent a little, and the nose threads are worn. Compounding this is the fact that I made a mistake when I was getting this thing working in the first place, and faled to note that the spindle thread was Whitworth, and threaded my backing plates 60 degree USS. Live and learn… Weighing options, I decided that a new spindle with a more modern design would fit the situation best, as I could have reverse in addition to leaving clapping chucks behind.

I'm at the point where I need to get a precise location for the cams, both axially and radially. I feel like I can perhaps infer the location, but I'd rather be certain. I have made up a 'dummy' which will be used for fixing chucks to the table on my shaper, and the spindle itself is ready for radial drilling.

I will have to learn how to attach images, as a picture is worth………………

Thank you in advance,

Will

[Willliam PowellParticipant @willliampowell36769]

Ok, Pix's.

[Tony RayParticipant @tonyray65007]

Will,

That's looking good. I'm sure I have a copy of the drawing somewhere and will PM it to you over the weekend. For my rotary table fixture project I managed to get hold of a D1-3 nosepiece and used that.

Tony

[Chris Evans 6Participant @chrisevans6]

A well executed piece of work and write up. Inspiration to us all.

[Willliam PowellParticipant @willliampowell36769]

Well thank you.

I set up the dummy part which will end up being the milling fixture, and have been doing some trial layout and inferences about the position of the cams. I bought a set of cams from MSC, but will make the second set.

more photos to come as I get them transferred to the gonkulator.

[MuzzerParticipant @muzzer]

If you PM me I can give you copies of the specs for the Camlock system. This has everything you could need in terms of dimensions etc. Another kind forum member was helpful enough to get them for me back when I was first doing this work. I'm abroad on business at the moment but hopefully I will be able to get my hands on them from here.

Murray

[Willliam PowellParticipant @willliampowell36769]

Well, I got excited and decided to take a whack at cam placement by inference. by using a set of purchased cams, (Whew – expensive), and fiddling around with them on the backing plate I bought, I got some preliminary numbers and decided to punch out the test fixture. I'm not entirely sure about my angular placement, but it's close.

I misestimated the engagement depth, but cheated it by extending the pins by one turn out from the gaging line. It worked.

I'm still hoping for real dimensions before I start making chips on the spindle. I could afford scrapping the test fixture, as it was a piece of fall off from my supplier, and I paid a couple of dollars for it.

[Willliam PowellParticipant @willliampowell36769]

[Willliam PowellParticipant @willliampowell36769]

Courtesy of Murray (Muzzer), I have the spindle specs I needed to make this thing right. Thank you sir!

my inferred cam position was off by 3 degrees radially and 0.070" axially. It worked anyway, but did not feel right, and as I posted above, I had to extend the pins one turn.

I have redone my layout and its back on the platen in the lathe. (I don't have a mill).

As usual, the photos are not in order….

[IanHParticipant @ianh]

Having just bought a rotary table with a controller attached, the idea of being able to move chucks direct from the lather to the rotary table appealed. I read this post and exchanged notes with Murray and set to. My design is based on the standard but differs from Murray's in that my rotary table only has three slots which makes things easier, I also put hexagon heads on the cams but stayed closer to the standard stop bolt orientation to keep the height of the adaptor to a minimum. I did not bother making the spring loaded stop bolt arrangement but could add this later I suppose.

The standard is not so easy to use as it gives design detail for the full range of cam lock spindles but you can puzzle it out.

I came across another post questioning the design of the cams themselves so I thought it might be useful if I shared my understanding and the method of making them.

The first question was about the cam profile and the angle "v" on the standard. I am on the same page as Murray here and believe that the cam profile is in fact a circle – with a bit of geometry you can work out that for the D1-3 cam the diameter of the cam portion is 0.677" and it is eccentric to the body of the cam by 0.031". The angle "v" on the drawing essentially shows that the required cam action occurs over this angle, the dimensions "d" and "e" tell you the extent of the cam action. having made them to this scheme I can confirm that it all works fine.

When it comes to making them I started with three blanks featuring a chucking piece on the inboard end of each blank. The outboard end is extended versus the standard to take the hexagon rather then the square hole as specified.

I have a smallish 3 jaw chuck with a large hexagon shaped lump on the back in place of a back plate – I use this in the milling machine to put the hexagons on.

Next I made up a little jig block that in based on a square but has a hole for the chucking piece through it offset by the required 0.031" eccentricity. It also has a register at the same eccentricity to allow it to be held in the 3 jaw to turn the eccentric cam. I also added flats on the block at 45 degrees to facilitate the later machining of the 45 degree feature.

Let me just add a photo of that….

[IanHParticipant @ianh]

This is then used first of all to machine the eccentric cam, then whilst still in the jog, the cam is trasferred to the milling machine for all the subsequent operations….the cut out to clear the cam lock pin, the 45 degree face and the hole for the stop bolt detent. Note that getting these features in the right orientation to each other is important so I marked up the jig to show this and also made sure that the hexagon was aligned consistently with the other features. I aligned the hexagon anticipating leaving off the detent feature and needed a way to indicate that the cam was disengaged.

Here is a cam ready for de-burring.

Once de-burred the chucking piece can be machined off and everything fitted together for testing. I added a centre pop on the end of each cams hexagon indicating the position when the cam was fully released.

The first picture in the previous post shows the finished item ready to go – maybe I will add the detent, but for now I have to get on with some other things so that will wait for another day.

Thanks to Murray for kicking this all off – it is a great idea.

Ian

[J BirchParticipant @jbirch48598]

I too am very keen on making one of these. Has anyone got the drawings done for one to save me a job? I can change the sizes to suit the size of cam lock I have on my lathe pretty easy…. (I still need to measure it up and find out which one I have)

Thanks

Jon

[Mark RandallParticipant @markrandall27002]

Hi everyone, I don’t seem to be alone in signing up specifically to find out more about Muzzer’s great build with a view to building myself one! Well done Muzzer, you caused quite a stir and it’s lasted for 7 years so far!! Could anyone help me with drawings for this? I’m having great fun learning Fudion360 so I’m up for a Stp file, a pdf, a dxf or a dwg. I have a feeling this site might become something of a habit! Cheers, Mark

[Anthony AshgroveParticipant @anthonyashgrove58555]

Hi,

I have a L0 nose fitting on my lathe (Colchester Student), getting backing plates is expensive, while the D1-3 backing plates are less than half the cost. I did check if the nose spindle from the later models (with the D1-3 fitting) would fit, but they don't! I have decided to draw up an adapter in Fusion 360, L0 taper on the inside, and D1-3 camlock on the outside, if it looks like it would work and not be too cumbersome I might even make it. Currently I am trying to collect information, I have the specification of the L0 taper, just need to get the D1-3 Camlock details, BSI sell the ISO 702-2 specification BUT they want £134 for a PDF, this is almost a weeks pension… does anyone know if this is available anywhere else at a reasonable cost, I can find the exterior dimensions for the backing plates, but cant find any details of the camlock system, which is all I need.Thanks and Happy new year to all

[Mark RandallParticipant @markrandall27002]

Hi Anthony,

Happy New year!

Drop me a private message and I’ll send you some information that others in the forum have helped me out with in making my own adapter.

cheers,

Mark

[Andy PughParticipant @andypugh44463]

Looking (unsuccesfully) for a source of D1-3 cams I stumbled upon this thread.

 

I have been making myself a D1-4 adaptor for my milling machine. I had extra castings made. Due to messing up I have:

 

1) A D1-3 adaptor that was a fallback when I machined a D1-4 too small. This should be all ready to go, except that it has no cams:

The raw casting was £36 from AJD and I have a few hours of work in it, so I would be hoping to get £75 plus postage for it.

2) A mirror-image D1-4 adaptor. This is what you get when you machine the radial holes 90 degrees out. This probably means that it won't even work with the pins reversed, as the angle between the holes should be 15.6 degrees but is in fact. 14.4 degrees. But you could still hold a chuck down with toe-clamps, and use it simply as a support and/or positioning device.

This can be had free for the price of postage.

Edited By Andy Pugh on 10/05/2021 22:58:47

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by Andy Pugh on 10/05/2021 22:55:39:

Looking (unsuccessfully) for a source of D1-3 cams I stumbled upon this thread.

A long time ago (10 years or so), JFK Precision in US listed all the fiddly bits for D-series spindles.

[Andy PughParticipant @andypugh44463]

Posted by DC31k on 11/05/2021 08:20:03:

A long time ago (10 years or so), JFK Precision in US listed all the fiddly bits for D-series spindles.

Gate and XYZ list D1-4 in the UK. D1-3 seems rarer.

https://spares.xyzmachinetools.com/KeywordSearchResults.asp?searchCategories=0&keyword=D1-4&Submit=Search

https://www.gatemachinery.com/product/cam-d1-4/

[John FurrParticipant @johnfurr13906]

Hi,

I'm going to resurrect this thread too, for two reasons.

Firstly, I found this thread when searching for dimensions of the D1-3 chuck spindle cams because I need to machine a replacement cam for the spindle on my recently acquired Colchester Chipmaster lathe. Some heathen bashed on it and ruined the square key hole in an obvious effort to free a stuck chuck.

I have been debating the best method to free this and remove the chuck, but that is something for another post.

Secondly, I love the OP's fixture for mounting a camlock chuck on a rotary table and other places. I must have one for myself.

So if anyone was lucky enough to obtain a copy of the cam drawings and perhaps if the originator of the original design is willing to share the design I'd be greatly appreciative.

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by John Furr on 22/11/2022 02:45:51:

So if anyone was lucky enough to obtain a copy of the cam drawings

Camlock spindles are outlined in two International Standards, ISO702-1 and ISO702-2, so a good starting point for a search would be to use the term 'ISO702-1 pdf' or 'ISO702-2 pdf' in a duck or a duck going near you.

Should you feel particularly flush, you can buy ASA/ASME B5.9 for $39 from ASME:

https://www.asme.org/codes-standards/find-codes-standards/b5-9-spindle-noses-tool-room-lathes-engine-lathes-turret-lathes-automatic-lathes

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Check PM John.

Regards Ian.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

It's ISO 702-2 that has dimensions / drawings for Cams and Studs.

In UK, your local library may have on-line access to British Standards to allow you to view this for free (though cuts have meant that some library services no longer subscribe).

[Chris GunnParticipant @chrisgunn36534]

John, I had a worn cam on my Bantam, the square was worn out, and I found out that Boxford sell the same cams, but with a hexagon socket instead of a square. I bought a set of 3 and no problem. However, Boxford were very reluctant to sell me them, once I said they were for a Colchester. I had to jump through some hoops to get them to sell them to me, and then they said I could not return them. I imagine they may have had complaints over the socket being hex instead of square. I would swap out the 3, and get a tee handled wrench.

Chris Gunn

[Author]

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