cutting a v grove in iron

[jon hill 3Participant @jonhill3]

I was reading a piece on making a 'finger plate' which is basically a low profile v block with clamp and was wondering what was the best way to cut the v channel?

The artical recommended using an end mill re-ground to a 90deg point or commercial cutter. I discounted the first option as it might be too advanced for my skills and the second possibly very expensive.

So that leaves setting the work at 45deg and using a normal end mill, something I havent done before.

The other option I thought of was using a gear hobbing cutter in the lathe mounting the work to the cross slide, effectivly making the lathe a horizontal mill. Has anyone done this on a speed 10 or similar machine?

[jon hill 3Participant @jonhill3]

[Peter Cook 6Participant @petercook6]

Posted by jon hill 3 on 19/06/2023 22:30:32:

So that leaves setting the work at 45deg and using a normal end mill, something I havent done before.

Click spring does exactly that about 2 minutes into this video. Finger Plate Clamping Tool (clickspringprojects.com)

[Chris MateParticipant @chrismate31303]

I'Ive done it with 12mm endmill milling head at 45 angle. The with of grove cut by cutter not more that cutter with in this case 12mm, the lenght of endmill cut one side, no problem for depth, but the bottom of cutter limit to 12mm, if you go deeper at angle it gets tricky to maintain smooth end result on one side. You could swop the block around so it cuts on lenght of cutter both sides, groove in centre provides relief space.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

If using a commercial vertical-milling profile cutter is too expensive then using a gear-cutter ( not a gear-hobbing cutter, a totally different beast) certainly would be – even if a gear-space section channel does not matter.

You don't quote the finger-plate's thickness. They are not usually very thick, and you could well at least rough out the Vee by saw to leave just a thin surface layer to mill to a tidy finish.

Even, since a Vee finger-plate is not normally a precise thing like a Vee-block, saw and file to a effective shape with reasonable quality finish, in not much more time than it would take to set up and machine it.

Either way I would drill a small root-hole ( 3- 5mm dia) centred on the Vee intersection first.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

A gear cutter is not a straight-sided 90 degree V profile as needed for the finger plate. It will give you an involute shaped deep V..

You could do it perhaps with a fly cutter held in the lathe. Grind the end of the flycutter tool bit to the required 90 degrees.

[Thor 🇳🇴Participant @thor]

Hi Jon,

I simply used a rotary file to mill the V shape since I had one, see here. I have also used a multiflute contersink.

Thor

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Jon, I did two, one about 11mm wide and one about 6mm wide, in a 500mm long piece of 50 x 50mm square block of steel. I just clamped the block down into a couple of Vee blocks, and used an end mill. This is used for folding sheet metal.

Regards Nick.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Depends what you call expensive and how big a groove you want but something like the 6mm here (size I tend to use) one should do and then you have a tool that will do quite a few other things as well.

Work at an angle is easy enough too

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Sometimes a simple wooden jig will suffice. Choose a hard wood like oak or ash. These are a couple of door stops I made for an older Toyota jeep where I had to mill out a section on the slant. To stop things moving about, I put a bolt through one of the holes and a tool makers clamp to stop the component lifting off of the jig

Edited By Speedy Builder5 on 20/06/2023 08:29:35

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

As the fingerplate is small, I just clamped in vice at 45 degrees. But I don't know any better.

[Mike HurleyParticipant @mikehurley60381]

No matter how you end up doing it, remember it needs to be an reasonably accurate 45% (or as near as practical).

If not, when you use it for drilling via the guide bush your holes may not be as centralised as you thought they may be! A 90deg cutter could be reasonably sourced if you shop around, and you will probably find it useful in the future. However, if you have some decent angle setting device then setting it at 45 in a vice etc and using and ordinary cutter will work fine

good luck, regards Mike

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Sorry – I misunderstood the Vee-shape in my earlier post, to mean in the finger-clamp itself.

Though not universal, many Vee-blocks are made with a small rectangular groove along the base of the Vee.

I think this is more common on blocks made on a shaper (indicated by the tooling marks), but will provide some clearance for the tip of an end-mill used for the sloping sides.

It can be cut with a slitting saw or if shallow enough, a slot-drill, as a first operation.

A tilting vice is advantageous for this sort of work, but turn the block round for the finishing cuts to make the Vee-groove symmetrical by balancing any slight tilt-angle error.

.

One little detail addition to a finger-plate as shown by Jack Hobson, is a small tapped hole in the broader vertical face, to take a simple end-stop for repeated work. This is also applicable to larger Vee-blocks and machine vices.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 20/06/2023 08:28:54:

Sometimes a simple wooden jig will suffice. Choose a hard wood like oak or ash. These are a couple of door stops I made for an older Toyota jeep where I had to mill out a section on the slant. To stop things moving about,

A little off topic but I take the chance of being called pedantic. Calling a Toyota a Jeep is like calling a Ford a Vauxhall or a Bridgeport a Proxxon. I get really annoyed when people call my Nissan a Jeep.

Ok will run & hide now.

regards

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Oldiron – I didn't think many members would know what an FJ40 was !

[jon hill 3Participant @jonhill3]

Thanks guys, lots of useful ideas.

Jason B I didnt think these style of cutters could be bought so cheaply, good to know.

I think I might have confused my terminology when refering to gear hobbing cutters, what I meant was a horizontal milling cutter for cutting v-grooves. If such a thing exists I presume it could be adapted to run on my ML10 on a suitable shop made mandrel possibly with tailstock support ?

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

Yes, there are horizontal milling-cutters for cutting chamfers and Vee-grooves.

You can't "adapt" them, but they do need a close sliding fit on a suitable mandrel run between centres.

On a horizontal mill the cutter is often keyed to the mandrel but for using on a lathe or light mill, it's easier and probably safer to rely on just the friction of the nut and spacers against the clamping surface each side of the cutter.

ARC, among others, sell short arbors with R8 or Morse-taper shanks, intended to be used with a drawbar on lathes or vertical mills. (Most lathes have Morse taper spindles.) The arbor has a tail-end centre-drilling for tailstock support. These suppliers may have the cutters too.

You'd need make a suitable draw-bar, and a length of studding with nuts and a washer will suffice for occasional, light use.

[OldironParticipant @oldiron]

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 20/06/2023 12:10:34:

Oldiron – I didn't think many members would know what an FJ40 was !

Very true. I never did understand why Toyota used the FJ (Fleetvan Jeep) designation when Jeep was a totally different company. I had an FJ60 for many years untill it rotted away under me. Now worth a lot of money if you can find a good one. I am a bit of a Classic 4×4 nerd. Still running my 1996 Patrol everyday which still runs a treat and is in excellent condition.

ATB

regards

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Posted by Oldiron on 20/06/2023 11:56:47:

Posted by Speedy Builder5 on 20/06/2023 08:28:54:

Sometimes a simple wooden jig will suffice. Choose a hard wood like oak or ash. These are a couple of door stops I made for an older Toyota jeep where I had to mill out a section on the slant. To stop things moving about,

A little off topic but I take the chance of being called pedantic. Calling a Toyota a Jeep is like calling a Ford a Vauxhall or a Bridgeport a Proxxon. I get really annoyed when people call my Nissan a Jeep.

Ok will run & hide now.

regards

Not a lot different than calling all vacuum cleaners “Hoovers”? Bad enough when one cell is called a battery.🙂

Edited By not done it yet on 20/06/2023 14:04:49

[roy entwistleParticipant @royentwistle24699]

Nobody yet mentioned the difference between bulbs and lamps or pipes and tubes

 

Edited By roy entwistle on 20/06/2023 14:53:46

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Oldiron on 20/06/2023 13:50:45:

[…]

I never did understand why Toyota used the FJ (Fleetvan Jeep) designation when Jeep was a totally different company.

[…]

.

Because, aside from being a Company Name, Jeep is a verbalisation of GP … which, in the US Military, stood for General Purpose

MichaelG.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Michael Gilligan on 20/06/2023 14:53:20:

Posted by Oldiron on 20/06/2023 13:50:45:

[…]

I never did understand why Toyota used the FJ (Fleetvan Jeep) designation when Jeep was a totally different company.

[…]

.

Because, aside from being a Company Name, Jeep is a verbalisation of GP … which, in the US Military, stood for General Purpose

MichaelG.

We're surrounded by long forgotten origins. Anyone got a 'GT' car? It stands for Gran Turismo, or Grand Tour.

In the 18th Century young British Aristocrats did the Grand Tour of Europe on reaching the age of majority. A rite of passage requiring huge wealth, and completed the liberal education of the ruling classes. Top people only, no oiks. Went badly downhill after railways made travel cheap and easy, and even Americans started doing it. Standards crashed after that.

Now Gran Turismo is a Video Game, and GT is a chromed plastic badge on the back of a slightly up-rated motor car. My father-in-law's Ford Cortina GT never went further east than Bicester.

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, years ago in my old job, some of the old boys who had served during WW2, said that the Jeep got its name because it was made with Just Enough Essential Parts. I was inclined to think they were kidding me along, but it did seem to make some sense, as a lot of them were in use then, and the Yanks may well have just said that to our boys, but I still don't really know if it was true.

Regards Nick.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

The WW2 Jeep was an excellent military utility vehicle but it inflicted an inglorious war wound called Jeep Bottom on its users.

To quote Wikipedia on Pilonidal Disease: 'The condition was widespread in the United States Army during World War II. The condition was termed "Jeep seat" or "Jeep riders' disease", because a large portion of people who were being hospitalized for it rode in Jeeps, and prolonged rides in the bumpy vehicles were believed to have caused the condition due to irritation and pressure on the coccyx.'

I often think re-enactors should recreate the military experience accurately. Plenty of mud, a week sleeping in a trench full of January slush, long periods of boredom between bursts of extreme fear, the catheter treatment for venereal disease, gas-mask training, and of course, 200 miles cross-country on an unpadded steel seat with only a patch of canvas to keep the rain out, average speed 8mph. An excellent way to spend the weekend. I'd pay to watch!

Dave

 

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 20/06/2023 21:13:53

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Yes Nigel, easy job for a Shaper but a slot in the bottom of the groove does help 

As for Gran Turismo (whilst we are topic drifting) – I think driving my 3 litre Alfa 166 to Italy in 2010 probably qualified the car as a GT. From Metz (on the second day) it was a seven hour drive over the Alps and we arrived on the other side at Lake Orta still fresh as a daisy. A wonderful touring car and I still miss her.

It was the Alfa factory's 100th birthday but unfortunately the workers were on strike. We got to the factory to find the entrance blocked and crowds of Alfa workers and Carainieri pushing each other around in the road outside. We had a large 'Alfa 100' badge in the front window, which someone noticed. A shout went up and suddenly the crowd parted and we were waved through into the car park! One of those days you always remember.

Regards,

 

 

IanT

Edited By IanT on 20/06/2023 21:53:51

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