Crimson lake royal Scot

[Michael CallaghanParticipant @michaelcallaghan68621]

Hi, I am onto the lettering and lining of my royal Scot. However from what I have read there are a number of different options available. Straw, yellow with red outline or black and gold,for the lettering and numbers. And yellow or straw for the lining both with black. So can I use gold lettering with the later yellow lining? . Not sure what to do.

[norm nortonParticipant @normnorton75434]

As an LMS or BR period engine? You need to define what year you want the model to represent, then hope someone has a book like the ‘Locomotive Profiles Rebuilt Royal Scot’ (if it is a rebuilt type). I think also you might find the livery described on the web somewhere if you phrase the right searches.

 

[michael howarth 1Participant @michaelhowarth1]

Send me a pm

Mick

[BazParticipant @baz89810]

Just typed “ livery for royal Scot steam locomotive “ in to Google, up came Precision Paints data sheet at just over twelve quid and quite a few other hits.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Michael Callaghan, this may not be any use, but I took this photo of The Royal Scot 6100 early in 1992, when it was on static display in Bressingham steam museum, near Diss in Norfolk, but it isn’t there anymore, and I believe it’s under/awaiting restoration.

Regards Nick.

[Michael CallaghanParticipant @michaelcallaghan68621]

Thanks Nick

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

This photo shows a very different colour scheme. BR:

Or save loads of time and effort by painting it in WW2 utility colours.  How the engine looked in 1945 – matt black, and never cleaned…

I’m old enough to remember main line steam, and engines were so filthy that colours were almost hidden.  Just me, but I like realistic models; engines as they looked after being worked hard for months on end without cleaning.  Rust, grime, and grunge rather than brand-new.   Most others, I think, prefer show-room perfection.

Dave

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, The Royal Scot No. 6100 was built in 1927 by North British, and was for the LMS, it went on tour in the United States from May to December in 1933 and also visited Canada. It would have had the Crimson Livery then, and was probably changed  when British Railways started, however, it wasn’t the actual Royal Scot 6100, as they sent the Dragoon Guardsman No. 6152, as they had their identities swapped, because 6152 was newer, but the identities were never swapped back on return to Britain. It became a rebuilt Scot during 1950, but never had the Crimson Livery during BR days, and probably got the Crimson Livery back when it was bought by Butlins for a display at Skegness. I remember seeing it there, when I went to Butlins in 1968.

Regards Nick.

[Nicholas Farr]

On Nicholas Farr Said:

Hi, The Royal Scot No. 6100 was built in 1927 by North British, and was for the LMS, it went on tour in the United States from May to December in 1933 and also visited Canada. It would have had the Crimson Livery then, and was probably changed  when British Railways started, however, it wasn’t the actual Royal Scot 6100, as they sent the Dragoon Guardsman No. 6152, as they had their identities swapped, because 6152 was newer, but the identities were never swapped back on return to Britain. It became a rebuilt Scot during 1950, but never had the Crimson Livery during BR days, and probably got the Crimson Livery back when it was bought by Butlins for a display at Skegness. I remember seeing it there, when I went to Butlins in 1968.

Regards Nick.

to late Nick, I have already painted it crimson lake. I have too many black and green locos.

 

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Michael Callaghan, I don’t have a problem with that, but like SOD has said, most of them were black or green during BR days. There is a good picture in a publication that I have, with it being Crimson, and it looks good.

Regards Nick.

[Nicholas Farr]

On Nicholas Farr Said:

Hi Michael Callaghan, I don’t have a problem with that, but like SOD has said, most of them were black or green during BR days. There is a good picture in a publication that I have, with it being Crimson, and it looks good.

Regards Nick.

No wonder LBSC hated Inspector Meticulous!  Michael wants a simple answer and instead is told there are two different Crimson Lake schemes. One was used to exhibit the engine in the US with the other exhibited in a British holiday camp.  And then we learn ‘Royal Scot’ was two different engines!

One of my old ME mags explains that GWR Green wasn’t standardised. The exact shade varied with time and where it was painted.  Having an original sample doesn’t help because colour changes over time.  Guesswork required!

What’s the poor modeller to do?   If I were Michael I’d paint and outline it as per the best photo I could find.  And if anyone queried it, I’d claim ‘this is an experimental scheme used by Butlins who changed it later’.  Or, “it’s this colour because I have too many green and black engines”.

I’m impressed by any well-made engine with a competent paint job even if the exact colours are historically questionable.

🙂

Dave

 

 

[david homerParticipant @davidhomer12226]

Hi Micheal

Have you managed to get the information regarding your Royal Scot paint scheme, if not I have Phoenix paints leaflet which I bought some time ago and also one or two hard back books on them, ask if you need anything else.

Regards

David

 

[Fowlers FuryParticipant @fowlersfury]

At risk of complicating the issue further, I’ve spent FAR too many hours on the question of LMS (1930s) paint schemes or rather shades and lettering. I learned long ago the definitive source on the subject was the book – “Locomotive Liveries of the LMS” by David Jenkinson.

Eventually securing a used copy and yes, it covers just about every aspect of LMS Scots’ type-face, colouration, etc including a fold-out page purporting to all show the actual colours. But time and paper deterioration have rendered the colour samples fairly useless.
The book emphasises how very much the LMS colours varied according to where the Scots were built and why. For example, only some works “rubbed down with brick dust” others used different primers, undercoats and particularly varnishes with subtle changes in final shades.

I did though produce to the best of my ability a colour “chart” of LMS colours for the 1930s but as you’ll appreciate that my computer screen’s calibration, my Epson colour printer etc wouldn’t necessarily reproduce “correctly” on someone else’s desktop gear. Nevertheless, it is shown below. It shows Crimson Lake, buffer-beam red and “pale straw” that being official LMS shade name. FWIW (and that’s maybe not much), Rover Damask Red aerosol spayed onto a “lead” (dark orange) primer is the closest match to the NRM’s Crimson Lake. Of course, there are “Crimson Lake” labels within CMYK, Pantone etc but their resemblance to the LMS version is minimal
In summary, Jenkinson’s book remains the best guide for Midland & LMS colour & lettering schemes. A copy of the book is well worth tracking down IMHO.

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