Cowboys !!

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

10/10 Dave BUT in mentioning an ELECTRICIAN the person MUST be competent (note this word ) being qualified is of secondary importance. Having worked in the field I have the gear and know a bit, but in this day and age all that matters is the bit of paper that shows your QUALIFIED ! I live in what is now called social housing and the association has 6000 houses and an electrical contracting firm is used. Some of the tradesmen may know what they are doing but MANY DON’T ! This house has numerous faults all done by QUALIFIED PEOPLE ! Noel.

[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Some while back we had a new boiler fitted. The old Baxi Bermuda had not had the flue fitted correctly and it had thus been leaking fumes into the dining room for over 30 years. Yet it had been regularly serviced.

At the time the new boiler was installed British Gas checked the electrics and which was given a pass. When the Smart meter was installed it was found we had no Earth on the House electrics. British Gas had only checked the Kitchen side of the wiring. Which I had installed with an Earth Spike. Consequently the House electrics were bonded to the Earth Spike.

I later found the original earth cable had been cut when a new front door was installed.

The wiring does not have to be pretty but it sure shows the measure of the person fitting it. As he or she is taking a pride in their work. Thus if you want anything done right, then it is better to do it yourself or employ people who come recommended by family or friends.

Regards

Gray,

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Here here Gray,

When we moved here from the Dales 25 years ago, we discovered all manner of bodging and short cuts electrically and later on in the plumbing. This was a house that had been owned and lived in for >30 years by a plumber and ” heating engineer”

Among his finer pieces of work was deliberate concealment of a folded back earthing point to break the link after driving a nail across live and earth in a cable elsewhere. The other end of this circuit was in two core cable, no earth and it was possible to run 1/2 HP motors between two earth terminals in the wiring. He raised his young family in this death trap.

I rewired the house completely and the final hurrah was played by the Board electrician who wired in our new tails into the new consumer unit. He was an arrogant sod. “30 years a sparkie, three sugars love and a biscuit if you have one”  Later that day we completed the final circuits in the kitchen, fully isolated of course, only to find this idiot had connected our tails in reverse!

We called out the Board to this one, seals were cut, there was lots of tut tutting, paperwork etc. and I guess a hot time later for the man involved.

Brian

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

It’s predictable that this discussion has focussed on the Electrickery, because that’s what I illustrated … but maybe it’s time for me to show you the “insulation” that started me on this journey:

In order of discovery:

First,  there was the foam [cushion inserts from a settee]
Second, a layer of Kingspan offcuts, taped together [some of that tape is carpet-fitter’s double-sided, complete with the backing layer]
Third, more Kingspan offcuts, wedged in place [perhaps this was easier than putting sufficient proper clips on the pipes]

Observant viewers will note several ‘interesting peculiarities’ in this installation.

Please feel free to discuss, if it amuses you.

MichaelG.

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[Graham MeekParticipant @grahammeek88282]

Not a pretty sight Michael, it is a pity they had not used the correct aluminium tape to cover the joints. I think I need to buy shares in the Company supplying these people with solder.

My daughter bought the Show house on one of the recent developments in our town. My Son-in-Law decided to change the wall lights in the lounge. Unscrewing the fitting from the wall he was met with a spray of water. Quick thinking on his part he replaced the screw. Later that day the emergency plumber supplied by the insurance company had a hole in the lounge wall and a repair under way. When he left that evening apart from the mark of the drying plaster, you would not know he had been there. There was not even a ripple.

This was a few weeks after my Grandson noticed water dripping in the kitchen from around the ceiling spot lights. The waste pipe in the bathroom had totally disintegrated. I suspect one of the painters used thinners to clean his brushes.

I could go on but I do not want to bore anyone, lets just say every piece of plumbing in the house has been replaced.

Regards

Gray,

[Brian Wood]

On Brian Wood Said:

…only to find this idiot had connected our tails in reverse!

Reminded me of an incident back in the mid sixties. I was a student given a job, at what was then English Electric Leo Marconi computers in Kidsgrove, for six months before going to University. One of the machines in the lab was (I think) a KDF4 with a big (physically, – but probably less than 1 Mbyte capacity) magnetic drum storage unit. It was powered by a 3 phase motor, and the magnetic heads flew on air bearings just above the magnetitic surface.

One Friday we were told to switch everything off as the electricians were going to be working on the main supply to the lab over the weekend.

Monday came and the student (me) was instructed to go and switch things back on.

I did – the noise was awful. The electricians had swapped the blue & yellow phases. The drum spun backwards sucking the heads down onto the magnetic surface and making pretty lines in it as they acted as turning tools!!

I don’t know what a drum cost, but I suspect the paperwork for that error was horrendous.

 

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

It’s predictable that this discussion has focussed on the Electrickery, because that’s what I illustrated … but maybe it’s time for me to show you the “insulation” that started me on this journey:

In order of discovery:

First,  there was the foam [cushion inserts from a settee]
Second, a layer of Kingspan offcuts, taped together [some of that tape is carpet-fitter’s double-sided, complete with the backing layer]
Third, more Kingspan offcuts, wedged in place [perhaps this was easier than putting sufficient proper clips on the pipes]

Observant viewers will note several ‘interesting peculiarities’ in this installation.

Please feel free to discuss, if it amuses you.

MichaelG.

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The Insulation was done by a skip diving previous owner.

At least the wood hasn’t been torched by the plumber.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

There are a number of “earthing” schemes used in the UK. To add to the confusion an installation may have been converted from one type to another.
It requires a competent electrician to actually inspect the installation to determine the type and if it is safe.
Trouble is finding one. Many will only do a full installation condition report (EICR) which they will than use to try and sell you work. I’ve seen some that were terrible. Not that for “certification” such as “Part P” only one person at the company actually needs to be “qualified” and can then sign off on any other employee’s work…

 

Robert.

[Harry WilkesParticipant @harrywilkes58467]

I once saw a earth that had been driven into the roof of a GWR railway tunnel and over the years some of the brickwork around the rod had become loose and only the cable clamped on the rod had stopped it falling through.

H

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

Michael,

Regarding your first picture…

At least there were a couple of plastic pipe clamps used!

Regards

Derek

[derek hall 1]

On derek hall 1 Said:

Michael,

Regarding your first picture…

At least there were a couple of plastic pipe clamps used!

Regards

Derek

🙂

You might appreciate this shot of the Aquasystem stack, Derek

MichaelG.

[Master of noneParticipant @masterofnone]

Hello Michael,

The size of the earthing conductor may not be a problem as far as the current carrying capacity is concerned.  If the earth electrode resistance were around 200 Ohms, the fault current to earth would be just over 1 amp. (Ohm’s Law)

On TT systems , the size of the conductor is governed more by consideration of the effects of mechanical damage and corrosion.  The On Site Guide has a table specifying the minimum sizes which vary from 2.5 to 25mm2, depending on whether the conductor is buried.

Please let me know if you need the details of the table.

RT

[Mark Rand]

On Mark Rand Said:

When the chap came to install ‘smart’ gas and electric meters, he saw the equipotential bond to the house side gas pipe, which I’d added when I rewired the house in 1986. He removed it saying “You aren’t allowed to use the gas pipe as an earth”. I put it back as soon as he was out of the door. The feed to the house is polyethene…

That is one way to reduce electric bills. I purchased a house in Durham in 1996, no earth leakage trip, four fuses supplied with live and neutral reversed.  A simple check is to buy a plug in checker where you get three green lights if the earth, live and neutral are correct.  This is useful when caravanning in France where the sites may or may not be correct.  We carried an adaptor to reverse to the correct polarity.  One of the wiring cost savings for  light fittings is to supply power and switch wiring and connect at the fitting which can result in live on the light pins.  In the past a connector box was used so no live at the fitting when the light switch was off.

[Master of none]

On Master of none Said:

Hello Michael,

The size of the earthing conductor may not be a problem as far as the current carrying capacity is concerned.  […]
The On Site Guide has a table specifying the minimum sizes which vary from 2.5 to 25mm2, depending on whether the conductor is buried.

Please let me know if you need the details of the table.

RT

Thank you for continuing my education, RT

This work is on pause for the moment … Whilst the weather is so dry, there are things  to be done on what might, one-day, be my workshop! … but I will be back to it soon, I’m sure.

Yes, details of the table would be interesting, thanks … I will send you a message, with my eMail address.

MichaelG

 

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