CovMac Lathes

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi Chris, Roger et al,

My first lathe was a DS&G 13Z much older than Rogers immaculate machine and with some front casting damage to handwheels and the SC gearbox. But it turned beautifully, and was a great machine to learn on. Yes, that is me in the picture, but that was in the 1970's………… Can uou tell where I ran out of green paint? Still in the same workshop, but the damp patch has been fixed now

Phil

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Scary hair Phil!

Brian

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Yes Brian, the hairhas been the bane of my life, very fine, very flammable with texture like 5 amp fusewire! I was called "hair bear" "Frizz/Fuzz" and when I started work "Bubbles" Now the boot is on the other foot, because a sizeable number of my mates are balding or bald, and at 62, I have dreadlocks down to my A*se and beyond ,which all go safely in a snood (well one leg of my daughters worn out tights actually) and down the back of my overalls. I look like one of the twins from Beano's "Lord Snooty"

Phil

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

 

 

CovMac is Landed – Final move of the CovMac took place successfully yesterday, and she is now in my garage in Yeovil.

Martin Whittle oversaw the move, (and did most of the work) and he was a really wonderful help to have.

Here is the lorry she went on – A VW Iveco flat-bed, nearly new, and with the very worst combination of gearbox and clutch I have ever had the misfortune to drive. Truly horrible. Highly recommended hire firm – Pitters of S'oton – this truck is had for £60 a day – an absolute bargain if you will tolerate the appalling gearbox.

And here is the CovMac, finally, and safely, on the lorry. That it took me 11 weeks to achieve this is down to my being a complete beginner. That I am not still in the shed at Totton, struggling, is entirely due to members of this forum. Many thanks, gentlemen. More detailing, and more pictures are to come, including the bed in the air, hopefully these will be posted by tomorrow. I have a busy day today.

 

 

 

 

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 05/12/2014 07:43:07

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Well done Chris and Martin,

All that is left to do is clean it, paint it, rebuild it, re-align it, get power to it, hook up the motor and switch on.

Just a few highlights really, lots of other little things in those major paragraphs which will take time and temper to set right again after a long sleep. Good to know you have finished in the grotty shed at last.

Best wishes

Brian.

 

Edited By Brian Wood on 05/12/2014 13:49:07

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi All,

Well done the the shifting crew, always a stressfull job, but you breathe a big sigh of relief when its all safely done. My last big purchase was an Alba !A shaper, so only small really, and it came back about 30 miles on a two wheel trailer of indeterminate age and condition, Cheeks were nipping I can tell you!

Phil

[Martin WhittleParticipant @martinwhittle67411]

It was great to help you with your lathe Chris – and it was serious fun .

I very much enjoyed work on an historic machine which is so much larger than my own, and to meet a real enthusiast. And your wife makes great sandwiches – please thank her!

Martin

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

CovMac – Final Move

Here is the lathe's bed in full, we placed it running lengthways to the truck bed, and decided to dispense with the carriage pallet, and to rely upon ratchet ties to securely clamp bed ends down to the lorry's floor bed.

This worked very well. The crane is on its 1/2 ton setting, for we really needed the extra reach, but there is a huge safety margin in lifting equipment. It is hard to estimate precise weight in the bed, carriage and apron, but I guess is at about 1400 lbs. We chocked the apron with random lengths of wood. Instead of moving crane, which, with its steel wheels, is very hard to do on anything less than a billiard table surface, we reversed the lorry bed to slide underneath it, once the lathe bed was at the right height. By this time, we had huge confidence in both crane and lifting slings – for this lift we used just the one, 2 ton rated sling, and slotted a similarly-rated shackle through the lifting chain, for to gain a bit of height, rather than the lower hook. The carriage and apron were rolled into the best balancing position.

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 06/12/2014 07:47:52

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Here is the lathe, slightly earlier, having been brought out of the shed, where it lived for thirty years, though the green painted doorway, top left, and turned smartly right through 90 degrees. The rubber faced wheels coped very well, on roughish concrete, and with just a three inch step to get over, which we lined with plywood, the whole thing was pushed out towards the truck; it handled much like pushing a large motorcycle. The weight gave great stability – and the headstock itself would actually prove harder to move, over the same terrain. The screw-cutting gearbox mounting bolts look rather vulnerable, here, but ultimate security was provided by a suitable length of steel bar run through the headstock's eyehole. 

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 06/12/2014 08:01:58

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

CovMac – Final Lift & Move – We approached the lorry with  lathe bed sideways on, though it was too long to go across the body of the truck, it was easiest entry point, bearing in mind location and terrain. The lorry bed was about 40 inches off the ground, so we figured the lathe had to go only a little higher –

At its highest point: Then we reversed the lorry as far as it would go beneath the crane's jib.

Then, it was only a matter of twisting the lathe bed, to run lengthways onto the lorry bed. This was easy, the crane was very versatile in this respect. Then we dropped her down. Then it was a matter of tying her down securely with webbing ratchet ties – these were fantastic – bought at Tool Station for less than £6 each, four metre, 1.5 ton rated, they lost nil tension in the 70 mile journey – they were tight as a drum still. Expert tying from Martin Whittle.

Although I had convinced myself that the lathe bed, minus its legs, headstock, drip tray, tailstock and most else barring carriage and apron, was not as heavy as it once was, altogether, when it might have been 1.4 tons, this was still one mighty lump of metal to move – likely 1400 lbs – and it took great care, and a very clam, careful and thoughtful approach, all of which Martin provided. I felt very safe under his guidance.

Altogether, with about 7 visits to Totton, from London, purchase of engine crane, ties, slings, hire of flat-bed truck, the cost of moving this lathe was about £450. It was double what I had imagined, in the beginning, but the concrete nonsense meant a doubling in number of trips to Totton – the concrete alone probably cost me £120 in petrol. The hardest part of the whole move was defeating the concrete boot which cam e sadly attached to the tailstock legs. Always check, when buying an old lathe – is it concreted in? I had not noticed, until my second view, when I had already committed to it. 

Then the headstock came, too. This actually proved, on the trolley wheels, harder to move than was the main bed, for the lack of weight, and an oddly shaped base to the headstock, meant little adhesion to the wheel platforms, but we coaxed it slowly along.

Lifting the headstock was a doddle.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 07/12/2014 11:41:36

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Well done to everyone involved. A heck of a job done there

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

>ROAR OF APPLAUSE<

Congratulations to the team!

I bet the big challenge will be getting that chuck off

Neil

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Thanks gentlemen.

Neil, the chuck you have assessed spot on – I have no real idea yet of how it comes off, despite Phil Whitley and Brian Wood both trying their very best to elucidate for me. I cannot find a spindle lock mechanism, as yet.

Final Note – Moving the CovMac – To go back to the beginning, here is reminder of the lathe as I took it on. After spending perhaps all of 18 months looking for a suitable, old metal lathe to restore, this was my first choice:

And t'other end:

The 2×2 timber is holding the roof up, and sheer amount of general neglect, and filth, are plain to see. Sadly, it seems the previous owner, a professional engineer, who died in 2012, aged 84, was for long, owing to age or infirmity, unable to give the lathe the TLC it needed. That this wonderful industrial sized lathe spent its last 30 years in a filthy old garden shed is a wonder to me.

CovMac Goodies: – With the lathe came a truly amazing storehouse of accessories and tools – five chucks, five face-plates, including the monster 24", a stout centre-steady, a number of gear change wheels, enough cutting tools, drills and boring bars to last me two lifetimes, 50 metal files, two 6" Record engineer vices, an anvil, taps and dies, dozens of hand tools, wrenches and pliers, and a selection of specialist items yet to be identified, one small vernier and an Ape Microball, and the previous owner's signed copy of "Machinery's Guide" – 1942 – very contemporaneous to the lathe itself . Plus, I have a hefty selection of metal bar material. It took three trips in my VW Passat estate to remove it all.

Thus, I reckon I may have enough to begin a bit of metal turning!

This started out as a museum project, from which I hoped to learn some engineering, and it has worked extraordinarily well, so far.

This 11 weeks which has elapsed, since I took on the lathe, has been expedited by the amazing generosity of heart shown me by members of this forum. It has been so heartening to get such help.

I have to return to my own professional commitments, presently, but I will begin the thread again, in the New Year, with restoration of the machine, which has already begun in small parts.

I will be doing a bit more research into Coventry Machine Tools Limited – there is little known on the firm so far. They were never primary lathe specialists, but better known for their heavy forging machinery. Their dates seem to be about 1936 – 1953. There is some material in Coventry City Archives, which may throw us useful light. There are known but 5 surviving lathes made by the company – one is in Australia, the only known 17" head example.

Might I wish all you engineers a Merry Christmas, and a Happy New Year, 2015.

Many thanks.

Chris Mills.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 07/12/2014 13:09:49

[Phil WhitleyParticipant @philwhitley94135]

Hi Chris, well done to you, and a Merry Christmas to all! Don't worry about the chuck, it simply unscrews from the spindle anticlockwise, looking at the chuck face, top of the chuck goes towards the operator. If you get a large adjustable spanner and put it on one of the chuckjaws with the lathe in low gear and PULL! it should come off. Shock (hit) it with a piece of wood if you have to. If it doesnt move you can put a blowlamp onto the boss at the rear of the chuck, just to warm it, we are not talking serious heating, just enough to release the grip by getting the boss to expand slightly more than the spindle, then try again. remember the chuck comes tight against the flat face of the register, it does not get ever tighter on the thread. If you look at this pic again you can see the nose thread, with the register behind it, and the flat face that the chuck backplate tightens up against is visible just in front of the bronze bush. My chuck looked like it had been on for ever, but when I at last put an adjustable spanner on it, it unscrewed quite easily.

Phil (Bah! Humbug!)Whitley

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Hello Chris,

I too would like to add my congratulations on the recovery and removal to Yoevil. It has been a very big job which would test many of us on this forum and to take it on as you have done with a declared minimum of general engineering knowledge and understanding is truly worthy of salute.

I join Neil in the roar of applause, some of which must surely go in the direction of Martin Whiitle who arrived on the scene like a white knight at exactly the right stage. Well done both of you and not even a fingernail broken.

You may already have spotted the thread above this one regarding the anvil, I know your's isn't full size but it gives you an idea of current value and with all the other goodies that came with the lathe I think we can all say 'the boy done good'.

Your appreciation is received with due gratitude, but it was clear to a lot of us that you needed the collective input from years of experience and I think the result justifies the effort.

Phil is quite right over the chuck removal, the lathe is already in awe of it's new master so it will obey!!

Brian

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Phil – Many thanks.

Brian – Spot on – I had jumped feet first into a deep hole – but I knew I must not dig it deeper, but earnestly appeal to those who might help me back to the surface.

My first post on this Forum, effectively, was shouting, "HELP!"

Looking back on this thread, over its fourteen pages, I simply cannot believe how much I had to know, how much practical information, and some severe cautions, I needed to absorb, and quite quickly, for I had not unlimited time in that shed at Totton – and how much wisdom came my way, in time, from those in the know. This was a form of magic.

And the saved and rescued heritage of the CovMac is the beneficiary – and that I hope I have a few more friends than I possessed three months ago.

That Martin lived just around the corner was such a huge bonus.

A whole round of beers will be on me, when we can all meet up!!

Best wishes to you all.

Chris.

[BikepeteParticipant @bikepete]

Been great watching this thread…

Just in case anyone else fancies having a go at a Covmac, a look here might be of interest!

I have no connection with the seller BTW, just happened to spot it and thought it might be worth a mention here..

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Many thanks, BikePete – It is of great interest.

Pete's link is to a 17" geared head CovMac up for sale presently on eBay for £750. It is in Mansfield, Notts.

This is one of only two known surviving 17" CovMac lathes – the other is in Australia. (I am trying to post a photograph of the Aus example on this site, but it does not like my presently formatted Jpeg.)

This one on eBay is missing its gap piece, and is indescribably filthy, but apart from that quite vital missing piece, it seems otherwise all there and original. It has kept its wooden clutch pole.

lt would be nice to think that somebody out there will have some commitment to saving this one – but its sheer size, at 2 tons, and with Three Phase power, might yet doom it to the scrap-heap.

I have my work cut out with my own, but there will be lots of intellectual support offered to anybody wanting to take on this one.

There are presently known just 6 surviving CovMac lathes – one belted head 13", three geared head 13"s, and two 17"s.

Interestingly, the two 17" examples appear originally presented in green – not the uniform dark grey of 13" models.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited By CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1 on 17/12/2014 06:56:57

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Here is a 17" CovMac, very similar to the one advertised on British eBay presently – this one, which came with loads of chucks and face-plates, which can be seen in the picture above the lathe, sold in Australia in 2013 for 500 Aus dollars – in other words, very little money.

It is broadly similar to 13" geared head models, but much, much bigger – reputedly twice the weight of a basic 13" CovMac model.

It is about 2 tons of lathe.

The bed is a much chunkier monkey. Other than that, they did not radically differ from mine and Phil Whitley's.

Headstock, screw-cutting box, carriage, apron and tailstock are all very much the same – it also had the clutch, with wooden clutch pole, just like the smaller models.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Just to give some scale to this, and it maybe even larger on this model, but the taistock barrel on the 13" lathe is a trifle over 1.75 inches in diamater; it is threaded 4 TPI with a square thread. The barrel itself is 18 inches long, it looks nothing like that in the picture above.

Brian

Edited By Brian Wood on 17/12/2014 15:40:54

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Perhaps he should get a ManSon next:

Neil

Edited By Neil Wyatt on 17/12/2014 16:40:51

[CHRISTOPHER MILLS 1Participant @christophermills1]

Neil,

Never put your lathes on a boil wash! I would not.

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

No, it's the tumble drying afterwards that does the damage! What a nice model Neil

Brian

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

That's not a model – or a toy!

Look up the ManSon on Lathes.co.uk – it was a proper, well made small lathe, which had some nice accessories.

Neil

[Brian WoodParticipant @brianwood45127]

Sorry Neil, I hadn't come across them before.

An outstanding piece of work, very desirable indeed.

Brian

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