Copyright

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

It’s a great shame that the history of ME copyright is such a tortuous saga.  Our woodworking colleagues, especially those who subscribe to the American Fine Woodworking magazine have a wonderful resource in that they are able to purchase a single DVD-ROM containing 200 magazines worth of articles

 

http://store.taunton.com/onlinestore/item/fine-wood-archive-dvd-011302.html

 

If only that were the case for both ME and MEW.

 

I have no connection, financial or otherwise, with the Taunton Press. 

 

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

It is something I am looking at.

regards David

Edited By David Clark 1 on 10/06/2009 15:46:33

Edited By David Clark 1 on 10/06/2009 15:52:19

[Michael GrayParticipant @michaelgray16785]

And I have just looked at a review of the  National Geographic new issue CDs:

 

    http://www.gtpcc.org/gtpcc/nationalgeographic.htm

 

They are offering a 32 CD collection 1888 to 2000 of the magazine and all of the map inserts for USD 50 AND it’s searchable AND printable.

 

I know I’d be dreaming to think that I could get ME for the same figure, but triple the amount would be reasonable. Or am I still dreaming?

dreaming on, Mike

 

[NilochParticipant @niloch]

I know this issue has been discussed at length here for example but I make no apologies for resurrecting this original post of mine to advise colleagues that Trains magazine from 1940-2010 is also now available from Kalmbach on DVD for approx. $150.  Wow! What a wonderful resource!

Edited By Niloch on 24/08/2010 08:17:53

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Just as long as we recognise and respect that copyright means ownership of something in this digitised age of piracy.

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, copyright can be quit a complecated issue. I have been reading Niloch’s link to a previous thread, where one member said they had scanned articals and sold the mags on. It is possible that this is in breech of copyright laws. I believe you are allowed to copy material for your own private use, but you must own and keep a copy of the origanal. If you sell on the origanals you must also pass on copies or destroy them.

Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 24/08/2010 09:11:17

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Mike

Dreaming.

Imagine how long it would take to scan 4386 issues and make them searchable.

I took me about 10 hours to do issue 1 of MEW and tidy it up to my satisifaction.

regards David

 

[WearyParticipant @weary]

Mr Clarke,

 

Maybe individual members of this website could undertake the scanning of separate issues on a ‘pro-bono’ basis and emailing them to you to start building a library???

 

For example, I have a complete run of Model Engineer from Issue 1, and can scan and clean up for pdf files.  Because of the bindings edges of text can sometimes be ‘curved’, but it remains legible, and experience has shown still of use to interested parties.  I’m assuming that pdf is not actually the format that you want, but maybe a start?

 

Maybe worth exploring as an idea?

 

Regards,

 

Phil

 

 

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Phil,  You are missing the point, if you do not own the copyright, you cannot “publish” them as you suggest.

 

Nick, It is not necessary to even own the original, you may after all make “1 copy for personal use (research)” of an article but not the whole publication at you local Library.

[WearyParticipant @weary]

1)  Volumes over 75 years old now out of copyright.

 

2)  “If the magazine is scanned and saved IN IT’S ENTIRETY, covers, adverts etc and no changes made then it is permissible national Geographic got taken to  court and won, this sets a precedent .”  quote from a previous thread linked to in Niloch 24/08/2010 08:13 above.

 

Are these points incorrect?

 

Phil

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

1 No, 75 years after author’s death.

Yes, allowed but we have been asked to remove all George Thomas material and Len Mason’s son was not very happy and John Bertinat’s son wanted royalties..

It is easier and cheaper to remove the pdf’s rather then go through solicitors although we are legally in the right.

regards David

 

[GorakParticipant @gorak]

Yes, it is always “easier and cheaper” to submit to threats and intimidation than it is to stand up for your legal rights.  The fact is, if you are legally entitled to reproduce the material in whole then you should stand up for your rights.  Win the first one in court (if it even gets to that), recoup your legal costs from the plaintiff, and the rest will fold.  

You possess a huge and valuable knowledge base and there are a lot of ways for you to generate new revenue from digital copies of your back issues. Many, many other magazines recognize this and are cashing in on it.  Letting your fear of litigation get in the way of new, perfectly legal business opportunities does a disservice to both yourselves and your customers.

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Having been through such a copyright/intellectual property case and won, it is the £250K++ cost that has to be contemplated before taking these steps. Would you?

Edited By KWIL on 24/08/2010 22:49:14

[Martin WParticipant @martinw]

David

 

This may be naive but I would have thought that if ME or MEW had paid any person/persons for articles then the magazine would then have ownership or the right to use the content of said article as they please. If this is not the case then perhaps a clause should be added to your acceptance and subsequent payment for an article insomuch that you (the publishers) have the right to produce this article in any format you choose either now or in the future.

 

I fail to see how a descendant of a contributor, who was paid for and willingly submitted an article, can claim or think that they have a right to claim royalties from a submission made by a relative!!! I realise that an author has the right of copyright to work that is published but this is different in that this is a commercial venture with a publisher and as such is very different to an article submitted for publication by a third party from whom they have received recompense. This said I am sure that some legal beagle can quote some infringement of intellectual property rights.

 

Kwil you state that you have pursued a copyright issue and highlight the potential costs. Without going into detail was it something that payment was made for by the recipient or was it just a case of a third party purloining an idea or copyrighted/patented process/product.

 

Cheers

 

Martin

 

 

Edited By Martin W on 25/08/2010 02:00:48

Edited By Kelvin Barber on 25/08/2010 08:47:14

[Robert Miller 1Participant @robertmiller1]

Here is something to consider. 

 

If you write a song or a novel, you and your heirs and successors retain the rights to it for something like 70 years without your having to lift a finger, and should it come to a dispute, you only have to prove you wrote it – which, should it go to court, should be a fairly simple issue to resolve.

 

If you invent something of commercial worth  you have to spend tens of thousands of dollars patenting it in the various jurisdictions where you might want to sell it.  If you are granted a patent, it is yours for twenty years from date of application.  If it comes to a dispute you have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on lawyers to argue complex legal and technical issues to prove the validity of your claims in court.

 

Isn’t there something seriously out of kilter here?

 

The USA used to have the best patent system in the world.  In 1998 in a supposed move to harmonize with the rest of the world, they made several changes.  Notable among these changes  is the publication of the application after eighteen months. Previously, your application was confidential and if the patent was refused, you still had a trade secret.  No more.  Worse, when the application publishes, anyone can challenge the validity of your claims even before you have a patent.  As well, prior commercial use is now allowable as a defense in a patent dispute.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi there

New agreements do have all rights but in the old days, we had the rights to publishing once and supply copies only. That was a standard in the industry.

This means we can put most of the latest articles for ME and MEW on the internet including modifying them,.

I have not put any up as they are available through the magazine archives.

regards David

 

Edited By Kelvin Barber on 25/08/2010 09:09:52

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Gorak

Not fear of litigation just lack of time.

We have 110 years of material to call on so no shortage.

One legal case at least is ongoing.

regards David

 

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

MyHobbyStore Ltd has purchased the copright to all of LBSC’s plans, drawings and articles as published in various magazines over the years.

 

Plans and reprints of the articles are available from MyHobbystore.

 

regards David

 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

This proberbly has nothing to do with this thread, but I have a facsimile edition of vol 1 Model Engineer & Amateur Electritian, It was published in 1976 and reprinted in 1977 by Argus Books Ltd, and printed by Clarke, Doble & Brendon Ltd. I imagine that more than vol 1 was printed. Ian S C

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

I beleive the reprints went up to about volume 8. I have the first two. Main drawback is they do not include the advertisements, which are fascinating, even if the suppliers are now often somewhat hard to contact.

 

There are problems with existing laws in this area, but that is not something we are going to be able to fix from here. Main impact in this case is that it is a bit difficult to know when someone who may have written one or two articles died. I have written stuff for ME myself, so have interests on the writers side of the equation too. For small articles like I have written in the past there is really not too much of a problem, as a writer I need to regard them as thing I did, was paid for, and cannot realisticly expect further payment from. That is not actually the strict legal situation, but is how I see things. I can see that if someone has written/drawn/photographed an entire locomotive construction series, and the possibility of it being published in a book arises, then they might want to hold their hand out some more for any potential profits. But this whole area is not one where we can expect to see great profits anyway. Nice to try to cover costs, but a bit hard to make a living at it.

 

So…I gather we are allowed to copy articles for friends. As Model Engineers of course we tend to have a lot of friends…now if I scan a few older (Pre WW2) articles that I have, and you scan a few that you have, and we share them….Not that I would wish to propose anything naughty, you understand!

 

regards

John

[John BaguleyParticipant @johnbaguley78655]

I have facsimile copies of volumes 1 to 12 so at least 12 volumes were copied and reprinted.

 

I am fortunate in having an almost complete collection of ME’s so have access to any material I may need. Others are not so fortunate and can struggle to get the information that they need to complete or start a project. Much of said information is in the hands of individuals such as Phil (Weary),myself, and others. So what do we do if some one asks us to make a copy of an article that they cannot obtain from any other source?

 

John

 

[NEIL SMITH 1Participant @neilsmith1]

I have 14 facs. volumes,the most recent is Vol.143 (part one)1977.the oldest is vol. 1 1898. Both have adverts. Neil.

[John OlsenParticipant @johnolsen79199]

Neil, you are right, it is another set of bound volumes i have from the forties that doesn’t have any ads. Of course there wasn’t a lot you could actually buy some of those years.

 

John, Somone here on the forum said that you are pretty much in the clear if you make the odd copy (or scan) for a friend. I am not a lawyer, so don’t stake your life on this. Where I am the law is different to the UK, and pretty much only concerns itself with commercial level copying, eg either you are doing it for actual money, or are doing it on such a large scale that it is effectively commercial. (Like posting it on a website or Bittorrent for instance) So I don’t have too much to fear if  copy the odd article, at least until they change the laws.

 

regards

John

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

John, like NEIL my vol 1 has adverts, most interesting they are too, as are some of the articals, such as How To Make A Small Gas Engine by Atlas, I’m having a go at building my vesion of this, and would be interested in the continuing bits in vol 2. an S C

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