Complete newbie with a Perris Lathe

[Peter Marsh 3Participant @petermarsh3]

Hope this doesn't break the Topic rule about financial gain – I'm just looking for advice on potential value. If the item does have any value, I may advertise in the appropriate section.

Some time ago I was given a Perris Lathe by an old neighbour, who used it for his watchmaking hobby and suchlike. I have been toying with the idea of learning how to use it, as it is something totally different from my work experience, which is mainly in accounting and computers. However, have now decided that isn't going to happen, and am looking to move it on to someone who can make use of it. But I don't want to get ripped off, so would like to tap the experience and knowledge on this Forum, if that's ok. Bought the latest Model Engineering, and the arcEurotrade catalogue has helped me to identify the correct name for some of the parts, tools, metal rods (both 'scrap' and still fine brass rods still in original box), measuring tools and a 'run out gauge' that are with the lathe – scattered around various boxes!

The lathe looks to date back to 1971, and has SB40 stamped on the base; and SC46 on the slide. The paperwork/ brochure does not identify the model, merely stating it is a Perris Lathe. It is 9” between centres, 3 ½” Swing over Bed. From Perris Engineering (Brighton), though the handtyped Working Instruction and Maintenance booklet is from Meadow Road Industrial Estate, Worthing. The is various assorted technical data including a Gear Chart.

One of the boxes appears purpose built and contains for example a PA7 Vertical Milling Slide Swivel Base along with assorted chucks, collets, wheels and small cogs.

It was powered by what appears to be an adapted Bench Grinder – and LDC Split Phase Motor Lancashire Crypto, which is connected to a double switch arrangement in a very 'Heath Robinson' looking wooden box arrangement. The Lathe itself is mounted on a wooden base, with what looks like an old sewing machine box as a cover. The power line for the Motor has been mislaid.

I see from one of the three Perris threads on this Forum that Perris eventually became, or was taken over by, Cowells who continued production of this type of lathe……with integral power and speed controls.

There is also a Using the Small Lathe by L C Mason, published in 1971, priced at 60p!

So……is a 1971 Perris of any use/ value, as without that integral power and speed control it appears outdated and obsolete…or does it have some value as a useful tool and/ or Collector's item? Would greatly appreciate any advice and guidance.

[Peter Marsh 3Participant @petermarsh3]

Is it of any use or value?

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Welcome, Peter

As you have already noted, one version of Perris lathe was developed into the Cowells.

… Brian Perris was an excellent designer.

I am not suggesting that a Perris will have the value, or capability, of a Cowells [which is considerably better 'detailed'] **LINK** but it does certainly have potential.

http://watchmaking.weebly.com/cowells-90cw.html

MichaelG.

.

P.S. … If you could put some photos in an Album, we can maybe advise further … and if yo can include a scan of the 'gear chart', I would be grateful.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 25/09/2016 08:20:03

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

I own a Perris lathe bought for about ?50-?60 (may be less as I bought other items and I recall there was only one other bidder who soon dropped out) at a rummage sale which came with various fittings + tools but not the gears – the usual way of buying these at that period appeared to be to buy the basic lathe, unpainted, no motor and then make your own base board + add a motor – mine came with a a small induction motor (a grinder motor would be too fast for most use) + reversing switch (not sure re use as the chuck screws on) again in a wooden box – I moved this to a better electrically safe box and added a NVR switch. Perris started to move to factory complete systems which was Cowells approach as this gave more profit and would widen the market.

Some fittings are compatible with the later and somewhat better Cowells (still sold but prices are amazing!) – however the the early Perris used a 1/2 inch UNF thread on a small diameter spindle (+ a right mix of metric, BA and UNF threads elsewhere) – Cowells use a 14mm metric spindle (thus the chuck etc is not compatible without re-boring the spindle and headstock – metric threads were used everywhere.

As the owner of a so far unmodded Perris I’m always in market for some tooling esp as mine came without the gears.

ETA I have a larger lathe + small mill that get used for most – the little Perris being relatively easily portable(ie I can lift it!) I wanted as a demo lathe (eg already shown at one fair) + ultimate use in my retirement flat

Edited By Frances IoM on 25/09/2016 08:55:45

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Peter,

Like Frances, I have a 'Perris' lathe … But mine is the 'Jason' model which is a very different style, but shares some components.

If you do decide to split the package, then I think we might both be interested in some items [hopefully without too much overlap].

May I suggest that you send us both a detailed note of what you have available.

… I have sent you a personal message.

MichaelG.

[James AlfordParticipant @jamesalford67616]

Peter,

 

Like Frances and Michael, I have an earlier version of the lathe, a Flexispeed, and should be interested in a some items if you were to eventually to decide to split the lot. I would have thought, though, that it would sell as a going set quite well.

 

James.

Edited By James Alford on 25/09/2016 10:24:43

[Peter Marsh 3Participant @petermarsh3]

Thanks for the replies. A couple of photos, including the Gear Chart as requested.

[Peter Marsh 3Participant @petermarsh3]

Michael Gilligan, thanks for that link to the Cowells review – very useful on how to set the lathe up, and with info on the type of lead I'd need to replace the missing one. Cheers. I'm on the Isle of Sheppey, BTW.

[Cornish JackParticipant @cornishjack]

Peter, I would suggest, having seen the photo, that you try to keep that intact as a package. It appears to be quite comprehensive and hiving off the bits and pieces would be a shame.

Value is always difficult to assess but from comparable machine prices, I would see £150 – £180 for a private, as distinct from a dealer sale, as being a fair range, considering the accessories.

rgds

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Peter,

Thanks for posting the Gear Chart … Much appreciated.

Having seen your photo; I agree with Bill, that it would be a pity to split such a nice kit.

… That said; if you want to recoup maximum cash for it, you may do better selling the major accessories seperately.

decisions ; decisions !

MichaelG.

[Frances IoMParticipant @francesiom58905]

Hi
yes a later model than mine even has the elf + safety cover over the gears! – is the gear chart appropriate as my SL90 has a 1mm metric lead screw though scales give impression of a 40 thou per revolution – had he moved to a larger spindle thread by the time of this model (BTW the 3.5in swing is really only usable with the faceplate tho apparently very useful for handling the wheels of smaller gauge locos – otherwise you are limited to 1″ over the actual bed)

but like Michael the set is nice one to sell complete (there were additional fittings suitable for gear cutting that I thought your watchmaker donor might have bought) – though to be honest unless you are looking for a small almost watchmaker size lathe then a newcomer would I think be better off buying a small lathe from the likes of ArcEuro as the Perris is quite restricted in some ways due to its size

Anyway please let us know what you intend to do – I might well be interested in the set as having a small workshop in SE UK and a retirement place without room for a real workshop in IoM, having 2 compatible sets 250miles apart might be tempting

Edited By Frances IoM on 25/09/2016 12:09:07

[michael pottsParticipant @michaelpotts88182]

Hello Peter.

You have a Perris PL100 lathe, a much rarer machine than the others that have been discussed on this thread. The crucial point is that it is unlike the PL90 machine, it has a different leadscrew, and the gears do not fit the other machines either.

These machines appear to have been built between 1966 and 1971 or thereabouts.

Your machine is therefore fairly late, appears to have been well cared for, and is very well equipped.

One was recently sold on ebay, not as well equipped, and fetched just over £400.

Last week I bought what were described as spare parts for a Perris lathe. They were most of a PL100 lathe less the bed, headstock and spindle. I was pleased when you published a photograph of the gear chart because it allowed me to check the gears that were in the spares. They were all there.

I would be interested in purchasing this lathe if you do decide to sell. I would also be interested in buying any brochure, handbook, or any other documentation that you may have, or of course a copy. All costs would be met.

If you wish to find out a little more about your lathe look at Tony Griffith;s website, lathes.co.uk . He has a list of dozens of lathes, milling machines, drills, shapers and other machine tools. Perris lathes are there, bottom of the second column. The bit you need to read is 'The evolution of the Perris lathe'. It was written by Andrew Webster some time ago. It appears to be a complicated story. There is a bit about the PL100 lathe, but not much. There is less on the main site. As I said it is a rare lathe.

At the moment I am attempting to refurbish a very early Cowells lathe which was very badly worn. I have three Perris lathes, all needing work and having faults that I did not expect to see given the reputation of Brian Perris before his death in 1975.

I wish you success in dealing with your lathe.

Regards. Mike.

[Peter Marsh 3Participant @petermarsh3]

Thanks for that Michael – I've traced the 24th July sale of the PL100 on ebay. Yes it is the same machine (mounted on a what appears to be a box from IKEA, the same type as my lad used to keep his Warhammer soldiers in!). It has a far better power/ electrical set up, so is doubtless worth more. I've been making a list of all the bits and pieces that are with the lathe – tools, indicator, Moore and Wright callipers and dividers, pin chucks, a range of old tobacco and pastilles tins containing Moorite tools, spacers etc, a Telacemite 715853 grease gun, and even a pack of Juneero 10" Rods, priced at 1/- (that looks so odd now)!

Michael – I have two of the original brochures – PM your address and I'll post you one.

[Peter Marsh 3Participant @petermarsh3]

I believe the serial number could be S840, not SB40 as I posted in the OP.

[michael pottsParticipant @michaelpotts88182]

These two numbers are almost certainly casting identification numbers. The slide in my lot of parts has the same number. Motors and electrical switches etc while nice to have would not really affect the price too much.

Regards. Mike.

[Peter Marsh 3Participant @petermarsh3]

This Perris has been listed on ebay. Good luck to anyone who is interested; and again, thanks for the advice.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

I might ask why you did not offer it for sale on the forum in the ' for sale' section? At least initially. No epay charges to pay.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by not done it yet on 19/03/2017 17:40:02:

I might ask why you did not offer it for sale on the forum in the ' for sale' section? At least initially. No epay charges to pay.

.

Presumably because a 'for sale' advert starts with the asking price and risks going down … Whereas the ebay listing starts with the minimum asking price and goes up.

MichaelG.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

,Presumably

The only Perris lathes listed this evening (before I posted earlier) were BIN or best offer. Unless not yet listed, how do you explain how that is reconciled with your post? The middle one of three looks remarkably like the pic in this thread. Your excuses are expected!

 

 

Edited By not done it yet on 19/03/2017 19:36:45

[Anonymous]

Posted by not done it yet on 19/03/2017 19:34:38:

The only Perris lathes listed this evening (before I posted earlier) were BIN or best offer. Unless not yet listed, how do you explain how that is reconciled with your post? The middle one of three looks remarkably like the pic in this thread. Your excuses are expected!

Shoulda visited Specsavers!

There's a Perris lathe listed on Ebay as an auction that looks exactly like the one pictured in this thread.

Andrew

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by not done it yet on 19/03/2017 19:34:38:

,Presumably

The only Perris lathes listed this evening (before I posted earlier) were BIN or best offer. Unless not yet listed, how do you explain how that is reconciled with your post? The middle one of three looks remarkably like the pic in this thread. Your excuses are expected!

.

I neither need, nor offer, any excuses …

Perhaps your 'pen name' is appropriate.

… At the time of posting, I had already 'watched' the lathe in question.

MichaelG.

.

Edit: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/282401590513

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 19/03/2017 20:05:05

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Pity you never got to use it. Making things is fun and you could have made a clock which would have become a family heirloom even if it didn't work very well.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Apols. It was not a BIN , on re-reading.

[Peter Marsh 3Participant @petermarsh3]

Posted by Bazyle on 19/03/2017 20:04:58:

Pity you never got to use it. Making things is fun and you could have made a clock which would have become a family heirloom even if it didn't work very well.

Indeed, Bazyle. But I've been told off by shewhomustbeobeyed for having 'too many projects' (usually unfinished); including keeping chickens, cycling, and basically anything else that stops me decorating; and my model 'engineering' fix is fulfilled by making 1/700 scale warships. Fun, absorbing and relaxing. As I have a sizeable unstarted stash of them, keeping the lathe is hard to justify. Must admit, I did fancy making 15" gun barrels out of brass rods at some stage, but not to be……

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Peter Marsh 3 on 20/03/2017 11:34:31:

Must admit, I did fancy making 15" gun barrels out of brass rods at some stage, but not to be……

My dad uses wood and a Unimat SL … but at 1:48 not 1:700…

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