Comments on the Exhibition

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, I agree with Terry, using “Blue Peter” in a belittling or non achiving way is unreasonable. Over the years it has given many younger people inspiration to learn and make things, and to use every day household materials to produce items they can be proud of.

 

I myself used to enjoy waching it, especially the making things bit.

 

Regards Nick.

Edited By Nicholas Farr on 20/12/2010 13:38:50

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I got a ‘Blue Peter Badge’ for my entry in their Design a Train of the Future competition. I recall that it drew it on asheet of blue Basildon Bond.

 

Neil

[Geoff SheppardParticipant @geoffsheppard46476]

Blue Basildon Bond? – there’s posh!

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi, you were allowed Basildon Bond! let alone Blue?

 

Rgards Nick.

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

I agree toally with Peter’s first post. Good exhibition if you want to look at lathes, buy bits for your Myfords etc – but not really somewhere I’d want to take the kids to.

 

Where were the live steam engines giving rides, the tethered aeroplanes whizzing overhead ?  

 

As to the trade guys breaking even, I can’t imagine a large show with all sorts of models, planes, boats, radio controlled, working sream engines etc etc etc wouldn’t be an absolute goldmine for all that present buying just a few weeks before Christmas.

 

I can’t see the argument that the show should just be for ‘engineered’ items- a show that appeals to a broader spectrum of ‘Joe Public’   will do a lot better at introducing new people to the hobby as opposed to a marganalised niche exhibition.

 

W. 

Edited By WALLACE on 20/12/2010 14:54:52

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by WALLACE on 20/12/2010 14:28:26: 

Where were the live steam engines giving rides, the tethered aeroplanes whizzing overhead ?  

 

The live steam engines were outside where they belonged when I looked! Didn’t see any tethered planes though. And there were loads of absolutely fascinating Stirling engines working too.

 

********************************************************

 

As far as defining what this is all about, I agree entirely with David. One of the accepted definitions of ‘model’ is that it’s a standard to be imitated – another is that models are simply representative forms of something. I mean it’s called Model Engineering, not Scale Model Engineering, isn’t it? And I suspect that this may have been no accident… Engineering in this context means to design, plan and construct. It comes via France from the Latin ingenium, meaning skill, or talent. It doesn’t reference particular materials, and if an engineer wants to model something in cardboard to see how it fits, or whatever, then why the hell not? I mean, who ever claimed that all models have to be functional in every sense of the term?

 

If you don’t like, or are not attracted to something in the show, then simply don’t visit the stand. But why slag these things off? The people making them are just as entitled to make what they like as we are. And they are also presumably providing revenue as well. As usual, I can see absolutely no grounds whatsoever for this griping.

 

It was an interesting show, but I did note that although I arrived at the same time on the Friday as the previous year, there was nothing like the size of crowd queueing for the door, so presumably attendance was down a bit. Which presumably reflects the current financial situation somewhat. Good SMEE presentation on plastics in engineering, too – worth it for that alone as far as I’m concerned. Oh, and the ploughing engine near the entrance was excellent!

Edited By Steve Garnett on 20/12/2010 15:46:48

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

The queue was a bit down at the start but visitors soon picked.

Saturday was busier than usual, I think people may have been waiting for the better weather.

regards David

[Richard ParsonsParticipant @richardparsons61721]

Any one remember ‘Micromodels’  for 1/3d you could buy and make several locomotives – using your worhshop in a cigar box-

[V8EngParticipant @v8eng]

Micromodels, oh how that takes me back!

 

Hope the following comments are not just my memory playing tricks (an age thing):

 

They were in something like a stiff envelope and the cover illustrations were amazing, tempting us to expect great things.

My thoughts are of tiny fiddly cut out parts, and trying to stick them together with the glues available at the time was an art in itself, but if everything worked out they were really rather impressive little objects.

 

I was proud of the few sucessful ones I made, but they got lost in a house move decades ago, expect they got chucked out with the cardboard and old newspapers.

 

I do remember seeing a box of these kits for sale on a Sandown dealers stand a few years ago, but it might have been at the much missed Symposium rather than the ME exhibition.

 

P.S. we did enjoy the recent Sandown ME exhibition, nice range of models upstairs, good for inspiration, and jealousy!

 

As to the comments on here about cardboard or plastics: remember we all started somewhere, in my case it was things like Micro models, Meccano and Keil Craft rubber powered aeroplane kits.

Do not be quick to dismiss peoples interests, which might progress in time to become large scale Traction Engines or such like.

 

Edited By V8Eng on 20/12/2010 19:24:34

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

Do you really want tethered aircraft whizzing around?

If so, I am sure it can be arranged.

I do hear a lot of complaints about another exhibition with noisy aircraft and tanks all over the place.

regards David

 

[Steve GarnettParticipant @stevegarnett62550]

Posted by David Clark 1 on 20/12/2010 21:08:51:

Do you really want tethered aircraft whizzing around?

 

Personally, no. I’m more interested in what people have done when they built models, and even something as slow as a running model steam engine is better viewed whilst it’s stationary – well certainly from a modelling point of view.

 

(I self-moderated the rest of this post!)

Edited By Steve Garnett on 20/12/2010 21:30:30

[Geoff SheppardParticipant @geoffsheppard46476]

Had to go digging a bit, but I knew they were there, somewhere. Micromodels Set MII (Princess Coronation and West Country) Price 2s 6d including Purchase Tax and Set P.G.VII (The Great Bear, Midland Compound and Duke). Still not opened. Must get round to making them up, sometime. Then on to rubber powered aircraft. That’s where model engineering used to start. We need the modern equivalent. 

 

Regards, Geoff

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

Hi Geoff,

 

where would we be without Keil Kraft   All that precision cutting and gluing and pasting and doping, Brings back real memories – Nostalgia ain’t what it used to be

 

Regards and seasons greetings,

 

Terry

Edited By Terryd on 20/12/2010 21:44:16

[Ramon WilsonParticipant @ramonwilson3]

I didn’t go to the exhibition but have been to many since my first way back around 1969-’70 held then at Seymour Hall so feel it’s reasonably justifiable to make a comment on this ‘type of exhibits’ discussion.

 

That first show was one where the aircraft were whizzing around, slot cars too on an enormous purpose built four lan track. The main hall and side rooms were truly packed with an incredible amount of ‘model making’. It was the first time I had seen anything like it and it left me with an impression that has lasted to this day as far as exhibitions go and one I have tried to implement when it has been required. That is – try to cater for as many interests as possible. Someone will like those small figures – I know I did – or the skill of the plastic modeller too – just as well as to stand in awe at a magnificent steam loco or traction engine.

 

Model ships have always played a big part in ME shows and indeed were covered quite often in the ME mag. I well remember at that first exhibition an absolutely beautiful model boat – Patricia of Pulroon – the build of which was covered in ME.

The gradual advent of many scale working model ship kits where much is done for the builder in moulded hulls and cast fittings has done much to include those with less skills and equipment than some ‘model engineers’ and long so it should remain – would we really not want to include these models or builders? I don’t think we would.

 

Despite my resurgence of interest in machining I still love making plastic models on occasion and built a working power model boat last year. Both have ‘engineered parts’ though to be fair the plastic models could hardly be called ‘model engineering’ but the time and effort and different skills that those that participate in other branches should  not be readilly dismissed

 

Though I would like to see it I don’t suppose we will ever see the likes of the Seymour Hall and early Wembley shows again. Remember some of them ran for some eight days  – think of the cost of that – but the move to Wembley seemed to herald the very slow decline particularly of traders – more cost – less profit – less inclination to attend – less visitors etc. Several previous posts have summed it up – travel – distance – cost (both to the trader and the public) the main factors and to exhibit?  well that’s a holiday in the area for the period or a double visit – economics again?

 

Seeing it from different sides of modelling I agree it could be construed as a biased opinion but for me it’s very much ‘live and let live’ and take the time to enjoy what others have to offer – who knows you might have a life changine experience

 

Seasonal greetings to all my fellow forum members and a really great modelling New Year too, whatever your interests.

 

Regards – Ramon

 

 

 

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Ramon

I think you may be right. We do need a more varied amount of exhibits.

I think the model engineers have become the elite and only want the best of the best engineering models.

They have driven all the other disciplines away.

16mm narrow gauge is an exception, I would love to see the gauge 1 people back and the O gauge people attending.

 

regards david

 

[Geoff SheppardParticipant @geoffsheppard46476]

David

 

Aircraft don’t need to be noisy these days. I recall that the ‘stable’ used to have a magazine called ‘Silent Flight’. Electrics have come a long way. Perhaps Graham Ashby of RCM&E could advise. It would be nice to get the aeromodellers back. I had hoped that the superb engineered aircraft models by Alan Clark, seen at last year’s exhibition, would start a new trend, but nothing appeared this time.

 

Regards

 

Geoff

[Ompa OmpaParticipant @ompaompa11814]

Despite the very obvious lack of security at the entrances on both set up and breakdown days I gather nothing was lost or stolen. As a club exhibitor we were advised that passes must be shown at car park entrances and personal badges should be worn at all times, neither aspect seemed to be taken up by the show/Sandown Park team. As far as the exhibition goes it maybe could do with some injection of ‘live’ models, be them from aeroplanes/helicopters, boats (bearing in mind there was a small pool but outside in the cold). A better organised area for live steam smaller gauge railways would have been a bonus, rather than have them outside almost at the front entrance, with many visitors rushing past them to gain more warmth in the main building.

Last year a small team of management and the like visited each group and asked for their opinions on the show (2009) and maybe the way forward, copious notes were taken by many of them at the time. In certain aspects the words were acted upon but in many cases they were not. A dedicated team that remains as one over several years would be a benefit here, not a team that changes so regularly the feel of the show is lost along with many notes and paperwork. One bonus at Sandown Park is the ample car parking another  the space in the hall, albeit due to a lack of supporters.

[adyParticipant @ady]

I would think that all materials have a place in engineering, the only real limit for individuals should be their imagination.

 

I was chatting to a lady the other day whose family business had been connected to a furniture factory somewhere around Nottingham.

On Friday they were making tables and sofas, on Monday they were being converted to make the de Havilland Mosquito

 

——–

It makes me furious when I see the Mosquito. I turn green and yellow
with envy. The British, who can afford aluminium better than we can,
knock together a beautiful wooden aircraft that every piano factory
over there is building, and they give it a speed which they have now
increased yet again…”
– Hermann Göring, 1943.

——–

 

Many innovative engineering leaps have been made using new materials and experimenting with previously ignored solutions because of  “established practices”.

 

When officious types take over and start rulemaking you get what I would call the “British Government disease” of lost opportunities and missed innovation.

 

 Vive la difference is my 2 cents.

 

 

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Harrogate does of course have a very good display [static] of model aircraft.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

The boat pool has to be outside.

The foyer was the bst place for the layouts as the smell of gas/fumes inside would be a nuisance.

There is another level under Sandown so we can’t have the pool inside because of leaks.

We do try to continue with the same organiser.

Clare Hiscock was assistant last year and organiser this year.

Unfortunatley she fell ill a week before the show so a stand in had to be appointed at the last minute.

 

I have not seen the suggestions collected in 2009.

I will see if I can get hold of them.

Any suggestions to improve the shaw should be emailed to me direct

david.clark@myhobbystore.com

 

I will see what I can do.

regards David

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

Gosh – Seymour Hall was in 1970 – that’s the one I went to first of all. Appart from the planes wizzing overhead (!), I remember the man drilling holes in files with his carbide drills – I wonder how many  he’s gone through over the years as he was still at it at Sandown . . !

 

What I really did like about this years one was that the exhibits weren’t ‘fenced off’ and there was usually someone close by to talk about them. A lot nicer than just being  locked away in a glass case with a security alarm wrapped around them – unfortunately probably a sign of the times we live in . .  .

 

 

Here’s a thought or two..

 

My first visit when I was 6 or so I wouldn’t have known what a lathe was  – but a ride on a steam engine was something to be remembered. Next visit a few years on, I’m probably looking more at the model electric trains wondering  if I can get one for Christmas.

 

Push the clock forward a few years and the electric trains don’t really do it for me any more – much more interested in the live steam stuff- I wonder how they make them ??

 

Now I’m in my teens – I know what a lathe is – and what it does –  and thinking – ‘one day I’ll have one of those ‘. A few years later with somewhere to put it and some money to buy one, I’ve got a L5 sitting in my Dads garage and I’m going to Olympia with a shopping list for tools and metal and will look at every exhibit wondering if I’ll ever get the skill to even get close to what I’ve seen (like a working V8 aeroplane engine that’s smaller than my fist . . ) .

 

But I needed that first trip to get me hooked in the first place – and keep me hooked – which is why I’m convinced a wide ranging exhinition is the way to go.

 

 

w.

  

 

[hammerParticipant @hammer]

Unfortunately there appears to be an elitist attitude by the train fatality. Yes it requires skill to construct an engine, machinist, panel beater, painter and a bit of soldering, and in most cases deep pockets to pay for a boiler. Now in the first post on this thread boats where mentioned, I took two boats to the show, got commended OK. But none of the working boats received much more I feel the judges did not consider the working part sufficiently. If a simple model was in a case highly polished it got a medal. Sour grapes you are thinking, yes maybe but all the skills above are required.  I will grant the accuracy is not required. But over 100 metal items required on one scale sail boat. Plus you need to be a seamstress woodworker (not model engineering).   It would have been nice to know what the judges didn’t like so things could be improved. Hammer.P.S. I though the show was very good.

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi There

The boat judges are boat modellers, not train modellers.

All exhibits are awarded points for different disciplines. If you get enough points, you get awarded a medal.

If you don’t, you do not.

There is nothing elitist about it.

regards david

[pcb1962Participant @pcb1962]

I too have fond memories of Seymour Hall at the age of eight or nine. I particularly remember being impressed by the boats in the swimming pool, something that today’s ‘paddling pool’ displays can never hope to recreate. For me the balance of the Sandown Park show is about right, but then I fall firmly into the ‘live steam – rail, road, or stationary’ bracket. I’m quite happy to admire the workmanship in models that don’t interest me, boats, clocks, ic engines etc, the only thing I don’t really want to see are ‘toys’, such as the truck display next to the tank area at last year’s Ally Pally show. I would not welcome planes, and especially not helicopters, buzzing around overhead, but I don’t suppose H&S rules would allow it these days anyway, at Ally Pally the flying displays are very inconspicuous in their corner, and make a great place to dump the children for a while whilst I shop for tools.

 

 

 

[WALLACEParticipant @wallace]

  ‘at Ally Pally the flying displays are very inconspicuous in their corner, and make a great place to dump the children for a while whilst I shop for tools.’

That’s the point – make it big enough and there’s room for everything  – and something for everyone !  Think of John Lewis in Oxford Street. Just because there’s a floor of womens clothing doesn’t mean I won’t go there to buy a tv . .    ..

 

w.

 

 

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