Coming Soon : The shutdown of 3G

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I remember the change to decimalisation of our money, and certainly the new system was easier doing away, as it did, with all the convoluted mathematics required. Who today can remember shillings, sixpences, florins etc?

Unfortunately I cannot say the same for digital TV. For a start, in my area, Cumbria, there was a lot of misleading information put out with people saying that new aerials are required, new leadins, new F type plugs & sockets etc. In fact, no change at all was required – anyone who already had either a Gp.A aerial or a wideband aerial and who was prepared to wait until the changeover was complete didn't need to change anything. We were also promised all sorts of wonderful new channels – what did we eventually get? Channels repeated 1 hr later, blatent advertising channels, and channels of USA junk!

I also note that when CD's were first brought out, they were pushed as being the best thing since sliced bread, and indeed some people went as far as spreading jam on them, and then showing that they would still work – I assume after they had removed the jam! What do we now have? Pre-recorded CD's/DVD's which actively prevent you, the user, from skipping over certain sections that you don't want to watch. I'm referring to the FAST warning here as much as anything. Is it any wonder that if you dig deeply enough, you can find that some people have shown how to disable that "feature".

And so onto telephones. Now, I quite understand BT's position here, but unfortunately instead of going forwards, we are going backwards. Telling people that if they want continuity of service during a power cut, then they will need a battery backup system. Takes me right back to Magneto and CBS telephone systems where each and every customer, or subscriber as they were then called, had to have a box containing a number of rather large standard Leclanche dry cells otherwise they could not make or receive calls. Telling people that it's not BT's problem if power supply lines fail because of high winds blowing down trees. Mind you, high winds also causes problems to BT's lines, or perhaps I should say Openreach's lines. But we used to have strange red coloured boxes available from which calls could be made in the event that your individual line was damaged by high wind. Not any more we don't. Indeed it seems to me that Openreach is deliberatley washing it's collective hands about providing an emergency service.

So, my rather negative thoughts are that digitalisation is not the panacea it is claimed to be, rather it is an excuse to foist a poorer service upon the poor bemused public. Unfortunately, we are "ruled" by a set of nincompoops who have been thoroughly taken in by the constant barrage of "digital good, analogue bad", and who between them apparently cannot raise one brain cell to see beyond this hype.

Now, ok, people will now rail at me and tell me I don't know what I am talking about, that I am a luddite, etc. But there are people around who cannot, will not, whatever, take to digitalisation and cannot understand why something that worked, and has worked satisfactorily for many decades, has to be changed. Yes, I am old, and therefore "past it". Yes, I remember magneto and CBS telephone exchanges (I started work when some of these were still existing), and no, I do not want them back. Yes, I remember the simplicity and ease of understanding of four or five television channels. No, I do not want to go back to LSD. Similarly, I would wish that we dropped the imperial system of measurements, metric being so much easier. But do we actually need 147, or whatever the figure is, television channels? Is it right that the 999 service should be downgraded as appears to be happening? And don't forget, despite my advanced years, I am quite happy using internet, computers & other digital equipment.

One final thought. Suppose, just suppose, there was a large area power cut such as happened in Storm Arwen. And, as happened to me some seven years ago, I had what was described as a mild (is there such a thing?) heart attack and was unable to call for assistance, and as a result I died. Would BT, Openreach etc be liable for my death on the grounds of death by corporate manslaughter?

Peter G. Shaw

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Can't remember the last time I used a CD or a DVD let alone a landline telephone. Live streaming such as Netflix and Spotify and mobile phones solved all those issues years ago.

But metrication. Well it's good in theory. But our materials here in Oz still come in sizes like 1.2 metres by 2.4 something metres and in diameters like 9.52mm. It was easier to remember 4 foot by 8 foot and 3/8" diameter.

And shillings and pence are a bit moot these days. Nothing costs less than a dollar today anyway.

Edited By Hopper on 31/03/2022 11:42:09

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

SoD says (a few posts back) –

Cause for concern that large numbers of people ignore evidence, preferring hearsay, pseudo-science, outdated information, vested interest, or political dogma.

Just think about this for a moment. In the UK we have a head of state who is by law also the leader of a belief system which is based entirely on documents dating (we are told) from 2000 or more years ago, and which contradict themselves. When you ask what evidence there is to support their beliefs, we are told 'You don't need to have proof, what you need is faith'. This seems to mean 'If you really believe it, it is bound to be true'. And isn't this exactly the same as the problem SoD is describing, and which causes us all so much grief?

Regards – Tim

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Hopper,

My wife & I differ in the types of music we like, the result being that we don't inflict our personal rubbish on the other. Furthermore, as someone with poor hearing, probably caused by self-inflicted damage during my youth, I'm not now that bothered about music anyway. But I do have a fair number of CD's which occasionally I used to listen to whilst using the computer. But guess what – the current computers don't have a CD port!

Metrication. Yes, here in good old Blighty we still have boards measured in 1.2 x 2.8 metres. But as someone who used to struggle somewhat with inches/feet/yards etc, I find metrication so much easier.

I agree about rising prices though.

Tim,

I used to be a believer, I think, although I'm not too sure about that. Today though, I'm firmly on the side of just look what all these different faith systems have done, and are still doing today. Also, I would ask the question, "Which one of the many different varieties of faith systems is correct? They can't all be correct!" And yet, surely, their reason for existing is just that – follow this system, and you will be rewarded with everlasting life!

Peter G. Shaw

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 31/03/2022 11:32:09:

… We were also promised all sorts of wonderful new channels – what did we eventually get? Channels repeated 1 hr later, blatent advertising channels, and channels of USA junk!

…

And so onto telephones. Now, I quite understand BT's position here, but unfortunately instead of going forwards, we are going backwards. Telling people that if they want continuity of service during a power cut, then they will need a battery backup system.

… we used to have strange red coloured boxes available from which calls could be made in the event that your individual line was damaged by high wind. Not any more we don't. Indeed it seems to me that Openreach is deliberatley washing it's collective hands about providing an emergency service.

So, my rather negative thoughts are that digitalisation is not the panacea it is claimed to be, rather it is an excuse to foist a poorer service upon the poor bemused public. Unfortunately, we are "ruled" by a set of nincompoops who have been thoroughly taken in by the constant barrage of "digital good, analogue bad", and who between them apparently cannot raise one brain cell to see beyond this hype.

…

One final thought. Suppose, just suppose, there was a large area power cut such as happened in Storm Arwen. And, as happened to me some seven years ago, I had what was described as a mild (is there such a thing?) heart attack and was unable to call for assistance, and as a result I died. Would BT, Openreach etc be liable for my death on the grounds of death by corporate manslaughter?

Peter G. Shaw

5-Channel TV, which was well funded by Licence and Advertising and highly competitive, made many first class programmes. A golden age in my opinion. The system was ruined by Mrs T, who seized the opportunity offered by digitisation to open the market to hundreds of deregulated channels. In theory, more competition results in better cheaper services, which has worked, but not in favour of those who liked the older system. Plenty of well-made TV to be had but mostly from subscription services, not Freeview which is dominated by repeats due to lack of money.

Red boxes disappeared because hardly anyone used them, apart from drunks taking a whizz and ladies of the bordello advertising their services. Most people have mobile telephones that work almost everywhere. (Not inside my house, but fine just down the road.) There are no wires to break in high winds, mobile phones usually get a signal, and they can be located moderately accurately by Cell, and highly accurately by GPS. Much better bet than a vandalised public phone box if you break a leg crossing an empty field!

Was Mrs T right or wrong to break 5-channel TV? Her goal was economic growth, not protecting small c conservatives or viewers happy with what they were getting. Most governments, of whatever political persuasion, prefer growth to stagnation, and always go for the money unless a powerful group objects! Movers and shakers aren't necessarily nincompoops, rather they're people who see the world differently and look to the future. Of course, progress is never painless: there are always losers as well as winners. And the Law of Unexpected Consequences often bites back, which is why I recommend being careful what you wish for and holding politicians to account when they fail to deliver.

Dave

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 31/03/2022 12:23:24:

Hopper,

My wife & I differ in the types of music we like, the result being that we don't inflict our personal rubbish on the other. Furthermore, as someone with poor hearing, probably caused by self-inflicted damage during my youth, I'm not now that bothered about music anyway. But I do have a fair number of CD's which occasionally I used to listen to whilst using the computer. But guess what – the current computers don't have a CD port!

Metrication. Yes, here in good old Blighty we still have boards measured in 1.2 x 2.8 metres. But as someone who used to struggle somewhat with inches/feet/yards etc, I find metrication so much easier.

I agree about rising prices though.

Tim,

I used to be a believer, I think, although I'm not too sure about that. Today though, I'm firmly on the side of just look what all these different faith systems have done, and are still doing today. Also, I would ask the question, "Which one of the many different varieties of faith systems is correct? They can't all be correct!" And yet, surely, their reason for existing is just that – follow this system, and you will be rewarded with everlasting life!

Peter G. Shaw

My hearing is much the same as yours thanks to noisy factories and motorbikes i suspect.

Re the last point, i am reminded of the saying that we are all atheists regarding most of the faiths humanity has devised worldwide. Some of us just go one faith further.

Shame we cant add Facebook etc to that list.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Dave,

I fully understand that "most" people have mobile 'phones. But what about those who do not? Or find them confusing? Are they to be refused the support of the emergency services? Because that's the inevitable end result.

And your comment about your mobile 'phone not working in your home, but it's ok just down the road. How does that work for Mrs Smith, 80+ years old, widowed, living on her own, and stuck using one of those mobility aids?

In respect of usage of 'phone boxes. As someone whose early working life was spent helping to keep them working, yes they were abused. But they were there and available for emergency use. Given what happened in Storm Arwen, it surely makes sense to keep them working, even if only for emergency use. Agreed, that if fed by overhead, then they are liable for wind damage, but often it is quite easy to feed them underground. In my village, although the vast majority of people are fed by single span overhead, the local 'phone box was fed underground, therefore provided the feed through to the exchange was maintained, then there was a possible lifeline. With the proposed system, whether fed overhead or underground, it would not work during a power cut.

In general though, I feel that we are losing something that was deemed extremely important 90 or so years ago. I feel that it is not impossible to devise a simple emergency system that is not dependant on the mains supply, but whether or not it will happen, I really do have my doubts.

It's also worth remembering that it's ok relying on mobile 'phones as long as the base systems have some form of UPS available to keep the base stations working in a prolonged power cut. Do they have such a system? I don't know, but I have seen some suggestions that they don't. At least with the old landline system, there was a minimum of 24 hours backup in each exchange.

Peter G. Shaw

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

I really miss 405 line VHF TV…

Coincidentally, BT Openreach are currently installing fibre down our street – firstly laying 3 inch (approx) dia plastic pipes and then pulling the fibre cable through. You can see their point, really, the fibre is cheaper and takes up much less space than the copper cables.

And look forward to the time when all that scrap copper they remove hits the market – prices of model engineering metals should drop dramatically

Rob

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 31/03/2022 13:39:46:

Dave,

I fully understand that "most" people have mobile 'phones. But what about those who do not? Or find them confusing? Are they to be refused the support of the emergency services? Because that's the inevitable end result.

And your comment about your mobile 'phone not working in your home, but it's ok just down the road. How does that work for Mrs Smith, 80+ years old, widowed, living on her own, and stuck using one of those mobility aids?

In respect of usage of 'phone boxes. As someone whose early working life was spent helping to keep them working, yes they were abused. But they were there and available for emergency use. Given what happened in Storm Arwen, it surely makes sense to keep them working, even if only for emergency use. Agreed, that if fed by overhead, then they are liable for wind damage, but often it is quite easy to feed them underground. In my village, although the vast majority of people are fed by single span overhead, the local 'phone box was fed underground, therefore provided the feed through to the exchange was maintained, then there was a possible lifeline. With the proposed system, whether fed overhead or underground, it would not work during a power cut.

In general though, I feel that we are losing something that was deemed extremely important 90 or so years ago. I feel that it is not impossible to devise a simple emergency system that is not dependant on the mains supply, but whether or not it will happen, I really do have my doubts.

It's also worth remembering that it's ok relying on mobile 'phones as long as the base systems have some form of UPS available to keep the base stations working in a prolonged power cut. Do they have such a system? I don't know, but I have seen some suggestions that they don't. At least with the old landline system, there was a minimum of 24 hours backup in each exchange.

Peter G. Shaw

You make good points Peter, and I hope I didn't sound too unsympathetic! My half-day power cut due to the storm was a bit of a shock because only my analogue phone worked. (I keep a simple phone for emergencies.) Apart from water, everything else failed because it's all mains powered – central heating/hot water, radios (DAB), TV, Fridge/Freezer, lights, washing machine, cooker, computer, internet etc.

I went to bed when it got dark and hoped power would be back in the morning. It was thank goodness. Got me thinking though, what if it was off for a week, or longer? Mobile phone batteries don't last that long between recharges.

Being a radio ham makes me a special case in that I own a small battery powered transceiver and could put up an aerial and call for help on the short waves or VHF, powering it off my car battery. I'm not a member of an organised emergency group though, and know almost nothing about the message handling procedures needed to keep a village in contact with civilisation!

Life would get pretty rough if the power went off for more than a few weeks!

While my son was being COVID jabbed at Bath Racecourse, I inspected the mobile phone installation in their grounds. It's in a steel box about half the size of a lorry container with various antenna about 10 metres up on a beefy mast, I'd say hurricane proof, and the set-up included a large standby diesel generator set. I'm pretty sure the box had a UPS with enough oomph to keep going until the generator fired up.

Dave

[mark costello 1Participant @markcostello1]

You lucky Brits, over here it happens once in a while that the electric has gone off for a week. It is getting better and it has been several years since a meaningful outage. It was in the middle of a blizzard and many did not have heat. We have a wood stove.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Dave,

As I have implied, I used to work for the GPO/BT and wrt modern(ish) analogue exchanges, in their early days they used to have a minimum of 24 hour backup purely by battery and charged from the mains supply. But as exchanges grew, so did the battery requirements with the result that it became cheaper to provide a smaller battery and a diesel generator, but still with mains charging as the normal method of working. The exchange I did my Strowger training in had two sets of main batteries, ie 2 x 24 cells, each cell being about 4 x 3 x 2 feet. These normally ran in parallel, and were kept charged by three automatically controlled 400 Amp rectifiers. There was also a diesel generator which was tested once a month. This was some beast. When starting, there was initially a large clunk, then the complete engine set would start to lean to one side, perhaps by as much as 20 degrees, then the engine would start to turn over, fire up, and the engine set would gradually return to the vertical. A bit larger than your average car battery/alternator system! (The noise from that engine set may possibly have contributed to my present hearing loss.)

Now imagine just how many amps that setup could supply. And I, as a 21 year old was once tasked with wiring up a fuse alarm circuit for one of the 100 Amp Subsection fuses. (The installation contractor had somehow missed wiring up that particular circuit.) As you might expect, I was keenly aware of just how much power there was available on those bus bars.

Some years later, I was in charge of a small rural exchange. I went on leave, and nobody visited that exchange. Exactly one week later, I visited the exchange and discovered that the power supply controller had failed. I discovered that the battery voltage was well below the lower design limit, yet the exchange was still, somehow managing to work. Manually switching on the rectifier produced a loud bang and a deep, very deep, hum as the rectifier pushed its maximum output (of 5A) into a nearly flat battery.

In respect of power cuts, our village is lucky. When we first moved in, the majority of houses were on overhead feed, indeed I believe the actual supply to the village was overhead. Our first winter, 1995 if anyone cares to remember that winter, we had a 19 hour power cut. Since then everything has been put underground, and power cuts are now few and far between, and usually of a short duration.

With my background, providing a battery backup will be fairly easy, after all, I have a caravan leisure battery not doing a great deal during the winter months. But the problem will be where to put it, and how to install the wiring necessary to get the power to the new router. Which is OK for me, but, I do have lung cancer, so my life expectancy is, er, well, possibly shortened. Which leaves my wife who will not be able to maintain such a system. So maybe a lithium battery system might be indicated.

Anyway, it's goodnight from me.

Peter G. Shaw

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Hi Peter G. Shaw, in my last year at school and approaching the age of 16, one of our workplace visits was at the local Telephone Exchange where all the Strowger operations etc. was explained to us, but the one thing I've always remembered was the battery in the middle of the room, thumping big tank about 3 Feet high, 4 Feet wide and about 15 Feet or so long and it was open topped, so you could see the light greyish looking fluid that the plates where in, quite awesome for us youngsters. My father worked for the GPO, but he sorted and posted letters etc.

Regards Nick.

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Since you now have to 'Register' to watch call back on most TV channels, am getting a bit tired of arguing with Alexa that it tells me I have to register within five days if I want it to play Radio two. Wonder if the slitherers in the crypt are looking at reinstating the Radio licence for non TV slaves?

Regards Ian.

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

My internet and phone were offline for about 2 weeks because the copper cable was stolen that linked our village to the exchange. A few months ago we had the interesting situation as once again the copper cable was stolen but as the internet is now provided by a fibre to the cabinet system it stayed online but the phone was out of service as it is still a copper connection. My mobile which is flakey at best on the mobile network still worked fine using Wi-Fi calling. We were only without power for about 4 hours during the stormy weather but the phone worked with a basic line powered handset, the DECT phones were out of course. The main problem is that the mobile system only stays online while power or a backup supply is available and a VOIP phone only works while you have power or a backup supply available. I think that if I lived in an area where supply repair could take days then I would probably invest in a generator to keep the heating system online which is a top priority according to my wife and a bonus would be a VOIP phone would work. Of course a medical emergency would be a major problem if it occurred during a serious power outage with no mobile service and no power or backup. Most smart phones have a fairly limited battery life so even if the mobile infrastructure remains up your phone may die.

Mike

Edited By Mike Poole on 01/04/2022 16:10:11

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by Circlip on 01/04/2022 15:05:22:

Since you now have to 'Register' to watch call back on most TV channels, am getting a bit tired of arguing with Alexa that it tells me I have to register within five days if I want it to play Radio two. Wonder if the slitherers in the crypt are looking at reinstating the Radio licence for non TV slaves?

Regards Ian.

Now the licence fee has been frozen and the government have announced they want to abolish it entirely by 2027 some other way of paying for BBC Radio will have to be found. I'm afraid non-TV slaves will have to cough up like the rest of us, assuming that radio carries on in a form we want to listen to. Big changes ahead.

As I doubt there's enough money in advertising to pay for BBC Radio the licence fee will have to be replaced by subscriptions and/or the service curtailed. Probably endless repeats of Jimmy Young and Mrs Dale's Diary…

Dave

[old martParticipant @oldmart]

I couldn't dump BT fast enough when Virgin put fibre into our road. I was with SKY, the satellite dish was good, but their relying on the BT cabling for the home phone and internet was a disaster, the whole area built in the early 70's is wired with aluminium, and there are up to 12 Open Reach vans in the area constantly battling with the corroded joints. Fibre to the cabinet is all well and good, but from the cabinet to the house, no good at all.

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