collets & vice

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

I'm deciding what accessories to buy for a SIEG SX2. Should I buy a seperate ER32 collet chuck or some finger collets? At the moment I'm leaning towards the finger collets. RDG do a reasonable set.

Are there any benefits of a self centering vice over a standard vice? I'm looking at a small SOBA vice?

Thanks in advance.

Bob..

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

If you do go down the spindle collet route, try CTC Tools (in Hong Kong). They are doing a set of 15 metric for ?46.25 (at this morning’s rates) plus P&P. I’ve always had good service from them at a competitive price and quality is excellent. The goods often arrive here in France quicker than from the UK.
Usual disclaimer.
John
(That’s 46.25 UK pounds – can’t get the pound sign to come up properly on this ‘ere iPad!!)

Edited By John Hinkley on 09/09/2012 10:23:47

[MICHAEL WILLIAMSParticipant @michaelwilliams41215]

Hi Bob ,

There aretimes to use internal collets and times to use collet chucks in practical work but whenever there is a free choice use internal collets – this makes the whole set up very much more rigid and greatly reduces geometric errors .

Similar story with vices – rigidity again . For the same general size a vice with one fixed and one moving jaw is many times more rigid than one with two moving jaws . On a similar note a vice which sits low and directly on mill table is always better than one which sits high and/or has a lot of adjustment features like anguar setting .

One last note :

In magazine articles and books written by Expert Model Engineers you will sometimes see rough castings clamped down direct to the milling table . Don't ever do this – always have some protection for the table and ideally make yourself a general purpose holding down plate . A basic plate will do but you can make a more sophisticated sub table if you want to .

Regards ,

Michael Williams .

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I have the Warco MiniMill (similar size & design) with the MT3 spindle.

One of the reasons for the MT3 spindle was because it's the same as my lathe.

Being aware of the loss of height by using a normal milling cutter holder, I bought all the metric MT3 finger (direct) collets I could find, and ok, it's cost me the best part of £90. What I have found is that some collets get used much more than others whilst some have never been used.

My suggestion therefore, is to go with finger (direct) collets to save on headroom but to only buy those that you need when you need them. I appreciate that this may cause postal delays but eventually you will have a set of those you actually need and the cost will be spread over a period of time.

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[NJHParticipant @njh]

Hi Bob

Your query prompted me to go out and review my motley collection of milling cutters. I note your present preference for a set of finger collets but I wonder if you need a range that runs from. 3mm to 20mm. For instance all my small (Imperial) cutters ranging from 5/64in. to 1/4in. have a 1/4in shank. 8mm and 10mm cutters have a 10mm shank, 14mm has 12mm, 16 and 20mm both have 16mm shanks. A "T" slot cutter and dovetail cutter both have 1/2in shanks. Maybe buying a set of collets isn't the cheapest way forwards and getting individual collets as you get cutters may be better.. The other thing to ask is what lathe do you have as a collet facility is always useful there and, if the spindle taper is the same as the mill, then you may think that the same finger collets may be used in each. Remember though that the finger collets need a draw bar so, in a lathe, it will not allow long work to pass through the collett. The cheaper option is then an ER chuck & collets that you will be able to use on either machine.

My own set up is a few No.3 MT finger collets and a Pozilock chuck with imperial and metric collets plus homemade adapter for mini cutters. The lathe has its own seperate No 2MT ER 32 collet chuck.

Life is never straightforward is it?!

Regards

Norman

Edited By NJH on 09/09/2012 11:34:20

Edited By NJH on 09/09/2012 11:39:45

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

A "self centreing" vice will by definition have two moving jaws and the only thing making them square to the vice acxis will be the quality of fit in the slides. A single jaw vice will have one jaw that can be dialed-in square to the mill, and if there is any play in the other it will (with a flat workpiece) automatically align parallel to the fixed jaw. Unless you are spending a LOT of money on the vice, go for one with a fixed jaw every time.

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

Dear all

Thanks for your advice, I think I know where I am going with this now. I have another question which I'd appreciate a bit more advice on. I'm planning on buying a Metric MT3 SEIG SX2 from ARC. These have been out of stock for a bit now, and I can't get any feedback as to when they will be available again. I've picked the Metric MT3 as my SEIG lathe is metric, and I'm more comfortable working with metric. I've gone for the MT3 over the R8 as I'm familiar with Morse tapers, have no experience of R8 and have a MT3 headstock in my lathe. I will be starting from scratch with the mill and will be buying collets etc. Having a look at my tooling the only thing I have that I may have used on the mill is a 3MT fly cutter.

So, should I go for R8? I can buy another fly cutter for cost of one, or a R8 MT3 adaptor? Any benefits of MT3 over R8?

Thanks in advance

Bob..

[David Clark 13Participant @davidclark13]

Hi Bob

I would go for the R8 every time.

regards David

[Tony Pratt 1Participant @tonypratt1]

Hi Bob, it has to be R8, it is a self releasing taper ie. a slight tap on the draw bar will release it.

Best wishes,

Tony

[Jeff DaymanParticipant @jeffdayman43397]

I agree R8 is the way to go with a mill, the main reason being R8 collets are retained by a drawbar, MT3 are not. With milling, MT3 collets can release unexpectedly, and your endmill falls out and maybe jams. At best this will ruin a setup which may have taken some time, at worst the cutter will dig in, jam and/or break which will ruin your workpiece. This usually happens when you have 30 hr into it, never in the first 5 minutes!

JD

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

This has been discussed several times here. R8 is much to be preferred, collets are cheap, self releasing, grip like b****y. Flycutters can be made and held in a collet. I have an Arrand mt2 insert cutter. I bought for my old mill, I actually bought a. cheap Ri8 to mt2. converter and loctited. the taper into it to. convert to R8.

But if you must use mt3 collets you would of course use them with a drawbar! I don’t understand comment in previous post.

Edited By John Haine on 13/09/2012 21:53:59

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Jeff, my MT3 collets are retained by a drawbar ! The only non retained MT collets I have and use are in the lathe!

I have today just made a 10mm drawbar so that I can use MT2 tool heads that I have in the MT3 taper with a MT2 to MT3 sleeve. I hgave no problem with releasing at all.

I have never used R8 collets so cannot comment on them.

Clive

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

As I said, I use MT3 collets in both lathe and mill. In both instances they are held with a drawbar and I quite agree that a hefty whack is required to release them. However, for the mill, a Warco MiniMill, there was a modification published in MEW96 by George McLatchie which allows the release of the collet without placing any stress whatsover on the bearings. The way it works is that the top nut on the spindle is replaced by slightly thinner and an adaptor made which fits onto the exposed column thread. A bolt through the top then engages with the slightly withdrawn drawbar and exerts downwards pressure which in turn forces the collet out of the taper. All the forces are wholly contained within the spindle.

I really should make one for the lathe, but….. Idleness, I assume!

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

So, Ive ordered a metric R8 SIEG SX2 Plus today from Arc, who were very helpful. I've only ordered the collets I need for the cutters I have, and will add to these as and when I need them. I plan to call into Axminster over the next few days to pick up 100mm single jaw vice.

Thanks for all the advice, it's much appreciated.

Regards

Bob..

[Bob PerkinsParticipant @bobperkins67044]

My Mill arrived yesterday from Arc, excellent service. I've spent a good few hours stripping and degreasing it today. Really pleased. I made a cabinet/stand, which is my other side line, so all was installed in short time. Looking forward to using it on my next project.

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

Bob,

The set up looks very nice and the stands are a nice touch. For my X3 (imperial/R8) I paid for a Sieg stand but yours will be much cheaper and probably better, plus the added satisfaction of a job well done!

Have fun chipping!

Dave

Edited By David Haynes on 22/09/2012 20:37:57

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Looks rather more professional than mine – bolted to an offcut of kitchen worktop and a frame of 2X2s.

Neil

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