Cleaning rusty parts

[Antony HardingParticipant @antonyharding74298]

Hi,

I got a “new to me” old lathe and need to get these parts deep cleaned, remove the rust and then stop them rusting again. Any ideas how to go about this ?

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There have been dozens of threads on this if you can manage to search the old forum posts.
Otherwise, for anything except the delicate sliding surfaces :
Degrease with white spirit or kitchen cleaner of choice,
Wire brush (machine not just hand),
brush on phosphoric acid (get a gallon off ebay not the expensive proprietary brews)
Wash off after a while (5 mins to 1 hour as you get experienced),
dry quickly to avoid flash rust, inspect and repeat,
coat asap with diluted clear Waxoyle or equivalent car treatment. Don’t use car polish or anything containing silicone. This will protect things until reassembled and will dissolve away in oil.
If painting you will of course have to thoroughly dewax again.
For parts you will handle, like er handles, coat with a pure beeswax polish (not not not silicone furniture polish) not oil to reduce allergies and contamination of clothes etc.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Well, call it patina!

Wot Bazyle said.

And, electrolysis in Caustic Soda solution is very effective on larger lumps of steel.

For delicate items more than one approach may be needed.   Take the Jacobs chuck as an example.  Outside it’s robust, but inside there are somewhat delicate sliding parts and springs.   Rough treatment could ruin it, assuming it’s not beyond repair already.   Items like that often have to be stripped down, which may require a long soak in penetrating oil, and strong heat just to get them apart.

May not be worth it.  The tapers have physical damage, which is bad.  Tapers rely being in good condition to get a tight grip, so I’d rather replace a battered one than take the risk.   If a manky male taper lets go and spins it’s likely to damage the socket.   Also, if the teeth are  damaged, the key will slip, which is a nuisance.

The rust on the HSS tools is cosmetic, so a quick swipe with a wire brush would be more than enough for me.

Unless you want the practice – a very valid reason – look carefully at old tools before spending time on them.  For example, the centre-drill has a broken end, and a new one is only a few pounds.

The idea that old tools are marvellous compared with modern rubbish is common on the forum, but I have my doubts.  Those chucks were good when they were new, but have obviously been neglected, possibly because they were worn out in 1958 and put in a box.   What happens to tools in the decades after they were sold makes all the difference, and many old tools, no matter how well-made originally, are in poor condition.

The way to find out how good those chucks are is to strip them down, clean, reassemble and test in a drill.  It’s very educational.   If they’re OK, then de-rust the outside and make them beautiful again.  Otherwise you may start by polishing a turd!

I prefer making things, and would rather buy new than spend a lot of time refurbishing.   That’s just me though, for many others the hobby is all about making good and there’s huge satisfaction in bringing old gear back to life.

Dave

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Having tried various acid based rust removers I finally tried Evaporust. I’s not cheap but is re-usable and it really does work. As with any other treatment you need to de-grease first and tread with water displacing fluid ( what WD 40 was made for) as soon as the part is rinsed or it will rust immediately.

Robert.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

The issue of flash rusting I can vouch for I have watched sand blasted parts turn red in 20 mins if damp or wet. As for the chucks, I would open them wide flush them with WD or the like and then try them if all seems well THEN dismantle and clean. to strip you will need to machine up certain parts to be able to press them apart and refit. Noel.

[Robert Atkinson 2]

On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

Having tried various acid based rust removers I finally tried Evaporust. I’s not cheap but is re-usable and it really does work. As with any other treatment you need to de-grease first and tread with water displacing fluid ( what WD 40 was made for) as soon as the part is rinsed or it will rust immediately.

Robert.

Yes I’d go along with that, Evaporust really does work well.
I think it’s a good idea to thoroughly de-grease before using it, as well as to use a wire brush to get most of the rust off first, to save depleting the active chemicals.
Maybe use a soft wire brush if there are engraved scales, such as on a micrometer or vernier calliper.
I’ve just used it very successfully in de-rusting a completely unusable 40″ vernier by making a long thin tube out of sink waste pipe, blocking one end with a nylon plug and leaving the vernier immersed for a couple of days.

It’s expensive, so I only use it for the more delicate jobs, those cutting tools etc will be fine with a wire brush and some Scotchbrite.

Bill

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Just for info, I was in our local branch of The Range the other day, and they are selling Evaporust 5 litres for £39.99. No recommendations or otherwise implied

Rob

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Evaporust can be re-used but store part used solution in a separate container. Don’t pour it back in with unused in the original container. Ideally filter the used evaporust before storing it. A coffee filter will do the job. And while it is non-toxic always mark containers.

Robert.

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

I am happy with the Evaporust for the few things that I have used it on. I so far have not used it on anything that has some sort of place that the Evaporust can stay and pool or not be removed . Like a bearing or screw area of a crescent.  Project Farm does a great test of different rust things. Most I have not seen for seen for sale near me.

[Mark RandParticipant @markrand96270]

If you’re cheap, like me, molasses will work. It acts as a chelating agent, as does Evaporust

A saturated solution of oxalic acid. is less aggressive to the steel than phosphoric acid.

[Nigel Graham 2Participant @nigelgraham2]

WD-40 won’t protect anything for long; and does not lubricate very well.

It is Water Dispersant, and also removes oil and grease but leaves a thin film of light oil that soon breaks down. It is really only a solution of thin mineral oil in white spirit.

Good for what it is, and for cutting and tapping aluminium alloy, but not the magic material often thought – or said on the tin.

For protective greasing I sometimes use petroleum jelly (e.g. ‘Vaseline’).

;;;;

Those turning tools are recoverable, so might the revolving-centre be; but I’d be wary of the two drill-chucks.

The teeth on the foreground one look still all right but the shank is badly damaged. The background chuck seems clogged with some powder or granular material that ought not be there; but if the gear-teeth and shank is undamaged it will be worth trying to clean it out and lubricate it properly.

On both, examine the jaws to ensure they close properly and are not bell-mouthed. Usually the drills suffer rather then the jaws.

Neither will look beautiful again as they look quite badly pitted, though that is a cosmetic rather than mechanical problem.

My approach I think would be to wire-brush the worst rust off, clean them out, then assess their mechanical conditions before deciding to spend time and materials trying to remove all the rust from the exterior.

 

[I recently scrapped an old “pre-loved” drill-chuck: not rusty but very badly worn teeth and key-spigot holes, scored taper shank, stiff action…. and worse, it had obviously been released from a spindle by hammering the top surface, which might account for the stiffness! Probably by the same type of user who insists in ruining drill-vices by drilling holes all over them by sheer laziness. ]

[Grindstone Cowboy]

On Grindstone Cowboy Said:

Just for info, I was in our local branch of The Range the other day, and they are selling Evaporust 5 litres for £39.99. No recommendations or otherwise implied

Rob

Having tried, and failed, to find Evaporust listed by The Range … I guess I will need to go to Rhyl and have a look.

Meanwhile, a Google search [rather naightily]turned-up this:

https://www.onbuy.com/gb/p/5-litre-rust-remover-solutionsprayliquid~p80488295/?variant=80489959&size=5-litre

which seems to be a ‘knock off’ in the fine tradition of some supermarkets.

… has anyone seen a comparison test ?

MichaelG.

.

Edit: Manufacturer’s web-page:

https://flowchemuk.com/product/rust-remover/

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

I use Rocol Metal Protect for protecting boxed tools and freshly machined parts. Its green and watery, I apply with a suds brush so you dont need much, my current 1/2l bottle is about 5 years old. Im sure their must be other makes around. Of course you could use hydraulic oil.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

On Grindstone Cowboy Said:

Just for info, I was in our local branch of The Range the other day, and they are selling Evaporust 5 litres for £39.99. No recommendations or otherwise implied

Rob

Having tried, and failed, to find Evaporust listed by The Range … I guess I will need to go to Rhyl and have a look.

…

 

Update: Yes, ‘The Range’ at Rhyl had two on the shelf … near to the ex-Wilko painting and decorating stuff.

MichaelG.

[Antony HardingParticipant @antonyharding74298]

Thanks all for the great comments and info.

Got my work cut out for me this weekend cleaning. 🙂

[Antony HardingParticipant @antonyharding74298]

Hi Dave,

Wise words….!!!!

Thank you for the comments and will take your advise.

[Antony HardingParticipant @antonyharding74298]

Thanks Nigel….

[Mark Rand]

On Mark Rand Said:

If you’re cheap, like me, molasses will work. It acts as a chelating agent, as does Evaporust

A saturated solution of oxalic acid. is less aggressive to the steel than phosphoric acid.

People get mixed results from Molasses, probably because it comes in many different types.

Molasses is a generic name for a by-product of extracting sugar from different plants.   It varies from a sticky brown semi-liquid to a thick black tar like substance.   Cleaned up versions are sold as a human feed product, others are processed again to make Rum or Industrial Alcohol.   The coarser varieties are widely used as a cheap cattle-feed additive.   As sugar is extracted from different vegetables, grown in different climates, the anti-rust properties of left-over Molasses probably varies enormously.

I think the type that works best on rust is made from Sugar Cane (grown in hot countries), and the most likely source is Cattle Feed, not the supermarket molasses sold for cookery.

I’d happily try Molasses if I owned a cattle farm, where it’s cheap, readily available, and might work.  As I’m not a cattle farmer I’d would have to go well out of my way to buy agricultural Molasses, with no guarantee it would work.   And it’s sticky messy stuff.  For the alternatives are a much better bet.

For what it’s worth, I suggest rust removal falls into four main categories:

1. Hefty lumps that can be cleaned without damage by harsh mechanical abrasion – sandblasting etc,
2. Robust lumps that aren’t damaged by electrolytic cleaning.  (Works well, but needs a bath and power supply)
3. Moderately delicate, requiring a graduated approach like that described in Bazyle’s answer.  (Much used in my workshop)
4. Delicate, where parts are easily damaged, requiring gentle chemicals.  Evaporust and similar are good for small parts, like clock repairing.

Molasses straddles cases 2 and 3, but only if it works! I guess most useful on a farm, where rusted machinery can be left soaking in some handy cattle-feed without bother.

Dave

 

 

 

 

[Antony Harding]

On 29 October 2023 at 15:18 Antony Harding Said:

Hi,

I got a “new to me” old lathe and need to get these parts deep cleaned, remove the rust and then stop them rusting again. Any ideas how to go about this ?

I’d say that was closer to ‘tarnish’ than rust. I would just degrease, then rub over lightly with wire wool. It’s easy to overdo derusting on parts that have little more than patina and dirt on them.

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