Clarkson T&C grinder

[Ian Owen NZParticipant @ianowennz]

I wasn't shopping for one but somehow managed to acquire on last week.

It was delivered today and I took a bit more of a detailed look at the machine I'd stumbled into.

It's missing a few bits, handle for the infeed and the handle for the elevation of the wheelhead, plus there aren't and electrics apart from the motor.

Since it only has a set of centres I'm looking for some tooling for it, if anybody has some for sale or knows of any tooling for sale please let me know

Ian

 

 

Edited By Ian Owen NZ on 12/06/2023 11:11:23

Edited By Ian Owen NZ on 12/06/2023 11:12:12

[Ian Owen NZParticipant @ianowennz]

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

The only tooling you need after a basic square tool platform is the universal head which is now rare and expensive. Just look at the fixtures for the Stent which is a sort of mini Clarkson or look at pictures of others and make your own. Solid lumps of cast iron rather than angle iron is the order of the day for solidity and freedom from vibration. There are some (normally green) universal heads of far eastern origin around for about £180 but would need modification.

Oh, the 'basic platform' above only needs to be a couple of blank angle plate castings bolted together, not some fancy wobbly arrangement intended for plain grinding wheels.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

As I mentioned elsewhere, but I'll add here for others, Bedroom Workshop is a useful resource, but the owner doesn't seem to respond to e-mails
http://bedroom-workshop.com/

When I got my machine, out of a skip, it was similarly equipped.
I was lacking time so did a quick end mill lashup which worked for several years; If I was to reproduce it now, I'f use a single leading shoe brake cylinder with a through hole.

It's not fancy, but worked fine, and I had everything in stock.
Each end mill shank diameter has its own collet made out of hex bar.

Bill

[Ian Owen NZParticipant @ianowennz]

Thanks for the link to the website, there is a lot of information contained there.

Sometimes it's easier to purchase the required tooling than making it, or adapt tooling from another tool & cutter grinder.

I saw a MkI radius tool sell in Ebay for 150 in the last couple of weeks so tooling does come up at a reasonable price sometimes. I bought a Weldon 200 air bearing a while ago for just under $100.

There is some work I will need to do to it before it is ready for use anyway. Fit an inverter and since the motor is single voltage the inverter will be 240v to 400v, saves changing the motor.

The feedscrews are all threaded BSF, 5/8-14, and they all look original.

The MkII had dials on the infeed and the head elevation can anyone tell me what the graduations on the MkII are?

Edited By Ian Owen NZ on 14/06/2023 09:58:01

[Ian Owen NZParticipant @ianowennz]

I made an enquiry with a friend and managed to purchase a radius fixture for the Clarkson for the princely sum of 2 x 24 packs of Speights

It's a bit dirty but should hopefully clean up ok with a bit of work

 

Edited By Ian Owen NZ on 06/07/2023 20:56:12

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

If you need them I have all the instructions for these machines. I have all the tooling and attachments. Noel.

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

Noel,

Do you have instructions for the radius fixture?

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

I believe so ! I will dig them out. Noel.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

Posted by noel shelley on 06/07/2023 23:20:44:

I believe so ! I will dig them out. Noel.

Noel, If you're doing a zip file to mail out, I'd much appreciate being on you list please.

Many Thanks

Bill

[Ian Owen NZParticipant @ianowennz]

Posted by noel shelley on 06/07/2023 22:10:36:

If you need them I have all the instructions for these machines. I have all the tooling and attachments. Noel.

Noel, if you can send me a zip file with all the instructions it would be very much appreciated.

Sometimes it's easier and quicker to read the manual than work it out using the trial and error method.

Many thanks

Ian

Edited By Ian Owen NZ on 07/07/2023 09:24:43

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Gentlemen, The instructions I have for the radius grinder are the Mk2 which is different to the Mk1 though the basic principles are the same. It is a small booklet in printed form, and I'm not sure how one turns it into something I can send out. I will run it through the copier and and see if it will copy and convert to A5. The "bedroom workshop" is a vast collection of pictures of Clarkson gear and there is Mike Haughtons 6 part work in MEW 148 – 153 that is worth reading. As for the attachments, they often cost more than a good tooled grinder when they come up ! As for the belt a poly V run inside out will work if the original is not available.

Ian the motor is a 1/2Hp 2pole 2820rpm and since you only have the motor it may be as easy to change the motor to a single phase. Or use a static converter. The spindle speed is 4000 rpm. If you PM me I can send the machine instructions. I may have a universal head, I will look in the shed. Wheel balance is vital, I twice had a wheel come off ! ! ! Till later. Noel

[Ian Owen NZParticipant @ianowennz]

Posted by noel shelley on 07/07/2023 10:11:10:

Gentlemen, The instructions I have for the radius grinder are the Mk2 which is different to the Mk1 though the basic principles are the same. It is a small booklet in printed form, and I'm not sure how one turns it into something I can send out. I will run it through the copier and and see if it will copy and convert to A5. The "bedroom workshop" is a vast collection of pictures of Clarkson gear and there is Mike Haughtons 6 part work in MEW 148 – 153 that is worth reading. As for the attachments, they often cost more than a good tooled grinder when they come up ! As for the belt a poly V run inside out will work if the original is not available.

Ian the motor is a 1/2Hp 2pole 2820rpm and since you only have the motor it may be as easy to change the motor to a single phase. Or use a static converter. The spindle speed is 4000 rpm. If you PM me I can send the machine instructions. I may have a universal head, I will look in the shed. Wheel balance is vital, I twice had a wheel come off ! ! ! Till later. Noel

Hi Noel, thanks for the information.

I have purchased an inverter that is suitable for a 1hp 3 phase motor, it steps up the voltage from 240v to 400v so will run the motor with no problems. The cost of the inverter was NZ$100 including shipping, so most likely less than the cost of a single phase motor to convert it to single phase.

Since I don't have the cover where the switches go I will have to make one, so I measured the existing hole and by extending the opening down I can fit the inverter to the back of the cover I make and fit a start and stop switch above it then fit the cover. This will hide the inverter inside the stand and enable me to use the existing 3 phase motor or fit a .75hp in place of the 1/2 hp motor if I want to in the future.

If I did that I would add a speed control to the inverter and adjust the rpm to give 6000rpm.

The universal head is one of the things I am looking for, then I will need to make some sleeves to hold the cutters, I'm assuming the same sleeves are used for the radius fixture as well. I'm also looking for the vise and any other accessories, they aren't very common here in NZ.

I would like to convert the table to run on rollers, and possibly convert the table movement to wire rope in place of the rack. I think the rack is binding as it feels very notchy when moving the table and you feel every tooth, it makes me wonder if the rack and rack drive gear are original.

From what I gather the grinder was part of a deceased estate and dismantled at that time, the person I got it off had reassembled it but didn't have the final bits to complete the job.

I have looked at many photos of the radius grinder online and see I am missing a few bits and the bracket the spindle housing attaches to looks like it has been fabricated but it obviously works.

Thanks

Ian

[Ian McVickersParticipant @ianmcvickers56553]

Noel,

some copiers can scan and convert the output to a pdf which you can email.

[Martin Johnson 1Participant @martinjohnson1]

Nice chip out of that cup wheel. Needs replacing before use and a wheel guard would be nice. Not too sure about revving up to 6000 rpm on an overhung spindle like that – definitely check instructions first.

Martin

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Ian, Your spindle has an extension on it, that unscrews, lefthand ! Whilst the Mk2 grinder was made to run to 6000 it had a different bearing set, and you will need to watch the rated speed of the wheels you use ! If you need dimensions for bits let me know. I will send a PM re the instructions. Noel

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

You don't need any sort of converter/inverter to run a small 3-phase grinder because there is very little starting torque required. Simply put the motor into "star" configuration and put a "run" capacitor across one of the windings, I think I used a couple out of old florescent fittings. The motor will stutter and buzz a little when the power comes on but it will run up to speed in about 1 second and then it is quite happy to run for ever more. I have been running my Clarkson and another small grinder like this for years with no problems at all. Easy and cheap way of running grinders like this.

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

You don't need any sort of converter/inverter to run a small 3-phase grinder because there is very little starting torque required. Simply put the motor into "delta" configuration and put a "run" capacitor across one of the windings, I think I used a couple out of old florescent fittings. The motor will stutter and buzz a little when the power comes on but it will run up to speed in about 1 second and then it is quite happy to run for ever more. I have been running my Clarkson and another small grinder like this for years with no problems at all. Easy and cheap way of running grinders like this.

Edited By Chris Crew on 07/07/2023 18:50:25

[Chris CrewParticipant @chriscrew66644]

Sorry for the double posting, I am in a Barcelona hotel room and WiFi is poor, I am doing this on a cheap Android phone. I meant "delta", when I edited the post and tried to save the changes, it appears to have put the whole post up again.

[Mark Davison 1Participant @markdavison1]

If you can feel the rack teeth I'd suspect the slideways are worn to the extent that the table has dropped (and the rack with it). That rack looks original (the curved end). If you were in the UK I'd point you to rotogrip who sell plain cast iron angle plates cheap. I bought a 5" one and cut it up to make a universal head bracket. An ER32 collect chuck on a 32mm straight shank and a lump of cast iron to mount it in.

.

[Ian Owen NZParticipant @ianowennz]

Posted by Mark Davison 1 on 07/07/2023 20:01:20:

If you can feel the rack teeth I'd suspect the slideways are worn to the extent that the table has dropped (and the rack with it). That rack looks original (the curved end). If you were in the UK I'd point you to rotogrip who sell plain cast iron angle plates cheap. I bought a 5" one and cut it up to make a universal head bracket. An ER32 collect chuck on a 32mm straight shank and a lump of cast iron to mount it in.

.

The ways are in excellent condition, given the machine was dismantled when the previous owner got it He can’t guarantee all the parts used to assemble it are original.

There were multiple machines dismantled, lathes, mills, grinders etc, the previous owner of the grinder had everything left to him and he had to reassemble everything. Since some parts are missing some things must have been mixed in with other things and ended up going with other machines or being left behind and disposed of.

I will strip it down and check everything and also add dials to the feeds, if I can find a set of MkII table raceways I will convert the table to bearing slideways.

please let me know where I can source the angle plate, I can’t seem to locate lumps of cast iron here in New Zealand ,I’ve been looking for a chunk 325 x 175 x 50, but can’t locate anything. Is cast iron readily available in the uk?

thanks Ian

Edited By Ian Owen NZ on 07/07/2023 23:35:13

[Mark Davison 1Participant @markdavison1]

Webbed Angle Plate 5 x 5 x 5in

 

I suspect shipping to New Zealand will make this less of a bargin. It is slight shorter than the original.

Yes, cast iron is readily available here  

 

Edited By Mark Davison 1 on 08/07/2023 05:41:11

[Earny49Participant @earny49]

Hi Ian

A bit late to this thread but with regard to your lack of workhead for your Clarkson; your picture of the radius attachment shows that it has a spindle in place. If I am not mistaken this would be tha same spindle used in the workhead and so would be a good starting point for building your own workhead. If it is a Clarkson spindle it will be hardened and ground and by the look of the picture the spindle has a sleeve in it which Clarkson supplied for holding their cutters so you have a start for your cutter holding items. Hope this helps

David

[Ian Owen NZParticipant @ianowennz]

Well I have the radius attachment stripped down and cleaned up, even the original paint is in pretty good condition.

All the grease in the bearings had gravitated to the bottom bearing and the top bearing had grinding dust in it, very much like the dust the attachment was covered in.

I've repacked the bearings, they are unshielded, and refitted the spindle and bearings into the body. I need to make a couple of pieces before I refit the table and other parts.

Does anyone have the MkII radius attachment?

If someone does, would it be possible to send me the measurements of the adjustable Z bracket fitted to the dovetail slide and also the bracket that holds the flute support finger.

The spindle fitted to mine has the 1 1/4" hole, looking at the information online I see there is a spindle that takes 1"OD bushes, I am assuming these spindles aren't easy to come by so will probably have to make one.

Any information on the Z bracket for the radius attachment would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ian

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