CL500m (it was free!)

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CL500m (it was free!)

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  • #768462
    Gary Lynch
    Participant
      @garylynch39491

      Hi everyone
      I’m going out on a limb here!
      I am trying to get a new switch block for the (lathe that shall not be named!) but incase I can’t buy one has anyone done a manual wiring setup?
      I have the wiring diagram from an amazing person on Youtube but am hesitant to try as it appears to have a big capacitor/resistor in the switch mech

      Thank you for any help
      Gary

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      #768465
      Emgee
      Participant
        @emgee

        It is not unusual to find a low value capacitor across switch contacts, it reduces arcing and subsequent damage to the contacts when the power is applied/removed.

        Emgee

        #768473
        Gary Lynch
        Participant
          @garylynch39491

          PS just in case it helps someone else.
          Does a Warco WMT300 have the same switch?
          Here is the wiring diagram
          CL500mWiring

          #768483
          Martin Connelly
          Participant
            @martinconnelly55370

            If you go for a new wiring setup then consider just getting a VFD and three phase motor for it. There are YouTube videos of someone doing this modification. Saves on some belt changing for speed control as well.

            Martin C

            #768490
            Howard Lewis
            Participant
              @howardlewis46836

              If you Google Clark CL500M you should be able to find a parts list, with a wiring diagram on Page 2, that you can download.

              There appears to be no sign of a capacitor in the Switch Box Wiring Diagram.

              If you cant find it, PM me with an E mail address, and I’ll send it over.

              As an aside, recently there was an article giving details of how to improve the clamping of the mill head, to prevent movement.

              Howard

              #768492
              Gary Lynch
              Participant
                @garylynch39491
                On Howard Lewis Said:

                If you Google Clark CL500M you should be able to find a parts list, with a wiring diagram on Page 2, that you can download.

                There appears to be no sign of a capacitor in the Switch Box Wiring Diagram.

                If you cant find it, PM me with an E mail address, and I’ll send it over.

                As an aside, recently there was an article giving details of how to improve the clamping of the mill head, to prevent movement.

                Howard

                Hi Howard
                I have that diagram but the image I posted is a breakdown which is a better view of the switch and having opened it it does have a 240v 50hz capacitor which I can assume based on google its a start up capacitor.
                i have to be honest I have removed the milling head. I have a separate mill.

                #768493
                noel shelley
                Participant
                  @noelshelley55608

                  Forgive me but I see No resistor or capacitor in the diagram which seems simple enough. Noel.

                  AH yes, as a single phase motor there could well be a start capacitor, but the resistor ? VFD and new motor would be an expensive way to fix the switch. N

                  #768495
                  Gary Lynch
                  Participant
                    @garylynch39491
                    On noel shelley Said:

                    Forgive me but I see No resistor or capacitor in the diagram which seems simple enough. Noel.

                    AH yes, as a single phase motor there could well be a start capacitor, but the resistor ? VFD and new motor would be an expensive way to fix the switch. N

                    Hi Noel
                    There is definitely a capacitor,(there is no resistor, just me not knowing before googling)
                    I can sort of see how to re-wire a new  switch but as I have never used a capacitor I wouldn’t know where it would go, I assume on the ‘on live’ side of the switch?

                    #768496
                    Gary Lynch
                    Participant
                      @garylynch39491
                      On Martin Connelly Said:

                      If you go for a new wiring setup then consider just getting a VFD and three phase motor for it. There are YouTube videos of someone doing this modification. Saves on some belt changing for speed control as well.

                      Martin C

                      Hi Martin
                      I have been looking at this but we are talking £2-300 if I go that route. I know that this is possibly where I may have to go but not until I explore all options 🙂

                      #768517
                      SillyOldDuffer
                      Moderator
                        @sillyoldduffer
                        On Gary Lynch Said:
                        On noel shelley Said:

                        Forgive me but I see No resistor or capacitor in the diagram which seems simple enough. Noel.

                        AH yes, as a single phase motor there could well be a start capacitor, but the resistor ? VFD and new motor would be an expensive way to fix the switch. N

                        Hi Noel
                        There is definitely a capacitor,(there is no resistor, just me not knowing before googling)
                        I can sort of see how to re-wire a new  switch but as I have never used a capacitor I wouldn’t know where it would go, I assume on the ‘on live’ side of the switch?

                        Hi Gary, don’t assume anything – it’s a mystery at the moment.  Can you post a photo of the item please.  The circuit diagram doesn’t show it, and your description doesn’t help.  I think the circuit is incomplete.  A picture is worth a thousand words.   Any markings on the alleged capacitor?  Might be a filter capacitor, which is completely different from a motor Start/Run capacitor.

                        And which switch do you mean?   The diagram shows a reversing switch, two interlock safety switches (boxed in Green below) , and a bunch more built into the contactor (blue box).   If by “Switch Block” you mean the contactor, much easier to replace these as a component than to do the same with manual switches.

                        cl500

                         

                        Needs to be understood before proceeding.  I’m sure we can help but more info needed please.  I’m baffled!

                        Ta,

                        Dave

                         

                        #769327
                        Gary Lynch
                        Participant
                          @garylynch39491
                          On SillyOldDuffer Said:
                          On Gary Lynch Said:
                          On noel shelley Said:

                          Forgive me but I see No resistor or capacitor in the diagram which seems simple enough. Noel.

                          AH yes, as a single phase motor there could well be a start capacitor, but the resistor ? VFD and new motor would be an expensive way to fix the switch. N

                          Hi Noel
                          There is definitely a capacitor,(there is no resistor, just me not knowing before googling)
                          I can sort of see how to re-wire a new  switch but as I have never used a capacitor I wouldn’t know where it would go, I assume on the ‘on live’ side of the switch?

                          Hi Gary, don’t assume anything – it’s a mystery at the moment.  Can you post a photo of the item please.  The circuit diagram doesn’t show it, and your description doesn’t help.  I think the circuit is incomplete.  A picture is worth a thousand words.   Any markings on the alleged capacitor?  Might be a filter capacitor, which is completely different from a motor Start/Run capacitor.

                          And which switch do you mean?   The diagram shows a reversing switch, two interlock safety switches (boxed in Green below) , and a bunch more built into the contactor (blue box).   If by “Switch Block” you mean the contactor, much easier to replace these as a component than to do the same with manual switches.

                          cl500

                           

                          Needs to be understood before proceeding.  I’m sure we can help but more info needed please.  I’m baffled!

                          Ta,

                          Dave

                           

                          HI Dave
                          Apologies for the slow reply, unfortunately I had the Noro bug going around 🙁

                          I took the pictures

                          Frt Front  – Stop, Start, Direction Switch

                          top Top View

                          bottom Bottom View

                          rightside Right side view

                          Leftside Left Side

                           

                          PS I removed the Milling Head Micro switch and checked with meter and thats all fine.

                          Thank You Dave

                          Regards Gary

                          #769349
                          Les Jones 1
                          Participant
                            @lesjones1

                            Can you post a picture of the resistor and capacitor that gives us some idea of where it is located on the lathe.
                            You mention a youtube video but you do not give the URL for THAT YOUTUBE.
                            what is the fault with the lathe that makes you think thet the switch box is the cause of the broblem.

                            Les.

                            #769353
                            Robert Atkinson 2
                            Participant
                              @robertatkinson2

                              Apart from anything else, the control panel wiring is showing clear signs of overheating damage. In paricular the push on crimp terminals. You can see that a number of them have turned brown due to elevated temperature.
                              I’d suggest that the lathe needs a new panel and a re-wire. The overheating oxidises the conductors making it hard to get a good contact even if cut back. The insulation is also damaged and can fail, possibly later. Anything less than replacement and re-wire will almost certaily fail in the future. The failure could be dangerous.
                              The motor need to be tested before re-wiring. As a minimum by carefully wiring it to a plug without the control panel.

                              Do it properly and you will only have to do it once.

                              EDIT:
                              Looking at the motor puzzle, it appears from photos on the web and in the Clarke manual that the motor is a capacitor run (might be start can’t be sure) with the capacitor and it’s wiring integrated into the motor. The motor assembly has 4 terminals L, N D1 and D2 or 4 wires. I think the “windings” inside the motor box on the wiring diagram are stylised and not the actual motor configuration.

                              Robert.

                              #769368
                              Gary Lynch
                              Participant
                                @garylynch39491
                                On Robert Atkinson 2 Said:

                                Apart from anything else, the control panel wiring is showing clear signs of overheating damage. In paricular the push on crimp terminals. You can see that a number of them have turned brown due to elevated temperature.
                                I’d suggest that the lathe needs a new panel and a re-wire. The overheating oxidises the conductors making it hard to get a good contact even if cut back. The insulation is also damaged and can fail, possibly later. Anything less than replacement and re-wire will almost certaily fail in the future. The failure could be dangerous.
                                The motor need to be tested before re-wiring. As a minimum by carefully wiring it to a plug without the control panel.

                                Do it properly and you will only have to do it once.

                                EDIT:
                                Looking at the motor puzzle, it appears from photos on the web and in the Clarke manual that the motor is a capacitor run (might be start can’t be sure) with the capacitor and it’s wiring integrated into the motor. The motor assembly has 4 terminals L, N D1 and D2 or 4 wires. I think the “windings” inside the motor box on the wiring diagram are stylised and not the actual motor configuration.

                                Robert.

                                Thank you Robert
                                The reason I came here is the lathe panel is now obsolete and cant be purchased (not from my research but have messaged Clarke (and Warco as their WMT 300/1 is the same machine) which will be of no use probably)

                                I want to rewire but I have limited understanding of the switch and I can see that it needs to be redone.

                                I am testing the motor this week and if  no good will go down the VFD/3 phase route but started this thread as the beginning to hopefully find a resolution and  just seeing if this can be done first, as if the motor is fine and its just the switch panel then why not redo the wiring and switch 🙂

                                Thank you
                                Gary 🙂

                                #769370
                                Robert Atkinson 2
                                Participant
                                  @robertatkinson2

                                  You can replace the existing panel buttons with an integrated NVR like the KJD17.
                                  KJD17
                                  The FWD/REV switch is just a DPCO rocker switch  This one http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/133757432545 would do.

                                  #769396
                                  mgnbuk
                                  Participant
                                    @mgnbuk

                                    The reason I came here is the lathe panel is now obsolete and cant be purchased

                                    Try Chester Machine Tools – that looks like the same reversing switch / NVR unit fitted as standard to the milling machine power feed I have that came from a Chester open day.

                                    Nigel B.

                                    #769553
                                    Howard Lewis
                                    Participant
                                      @howardlewis46836

                                      The Chester Model B is a similar machine, so spares MIGHT be available from there

                                      Howard

                                      #770073
                                      Gary Lynch
                                      Participant
                                        @garylynch39491
                                        On Howard Lewis Said:

                                        The Chester Model B is a similar machine, so spares MIGHT be available from there

                                        Howard

                                        Thank you they had the same switch 🙂
                                        Which I have purchased.

                                        Thank you to everyone who answered 🙂
                                        I have also got cable to make a new harness and the motor is working as the run capacitor had ‘blown’ on it, now replaced 🙂

                                        Again thank you to truly a great community with experience that is sadly fading in the real world 🙁

                                        Gary

                                        Now to find a cross screw and slide nut, would make them but I’m a beginner and wouldn’t know how to make a left hand ACME thread or what the size is 🙁

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