Cigarette Papers

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Nice challenge for all those blokes with micron and tenths micrometers. It's a good test of instrument and technique, because no-one knows the right answer, if there is one. (I doubt fag paper is made as accurately as a slip gauge.)

My un-calibrated G-clamp suggests 0.017mm for Rizla Silver Super Thin. ( About 0.0007" )

Dave

Edit Smiley exterminated

Edited By SillyOldDuffer on 13/07/2020 17:39:28

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/07/2020 17:38:42:

[…]

My un-calibrated G-clamp suggests 0.017mm for Rizla Silver Super Thin.

.

Which, co-incidentally, is one tenth the thickness of a de-facto standard [*] microscope slide coverslip.

MichaelG.

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[*] other thicknesses are available, but that’s what many objectives are designed around.

[John MCParticipant @johnmc39344]

What do people use cigarette papers for? (other than smoking!).

I ask the question because I've never seen them used them in engineering.

I've seen "fag paper" being used to set the ignition timing on old motorcycles, not with good effect, difficult to get any "feel" with them, 1 1/2" thou feeler much better, would the same be true in whatever way the may be used in engineering?

John

Ps, never heard the trueing of a mill head called "tramming" until I joined this forum.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by John MC on 13/07/2020 18:05:49:

What do people use cigarette papers for? (other than smoking!).

I ask the question because I've never seen them used them in engineering.

[…]

.

Attach a fragment of paper to a workpiece [typically on the mill] then bring the rotating cutter up to it … the paper will be snatched away when the cutter is within about one thou of the work.

…

MichaelG.

[MC Black 2Participant @mcblack2]

Posted by SillyOldDuffer on 13/07/2020 17:38:42:

Nice challenge for all those blokes with micron and tenths micrometers. It's a good test of instrument and technique, because no-one knows the right answer, if there is one. (I doubt fag paper is made as accurately as a slip gauge.)

I have written to RIZLA+ but NOT had any response

I presume that their boffins will know.

Incidentally RIZLA+ = Rice paper and La Croix (the firm that made them originally)

Very many thanks for your continuing interest

MC

[Simon Williams 3Participant @simonwilliams3]

Posted by John MC on 13/07/2020 18:05:49:

What do people use cigarette papers for? (other than smoking!).

A very long time ago I joined the Instrument Mechanics Dept of what became Severn Trent Water, was then the North West Gloucestershire Water board, based at Staverton Airport between Cheltenham and Gloucester

Two of the chaps whose unfortunate lot was to look after me and make sure i didn't get into trouble recounted how they had been employed in a Clean Room environment, I don't remember for whom.

Their angle on this story was that Rizla papers were the only thing they had found which did not shed fibres, yet would absorb liquid. Hence they could be used in a clean room without contaminating the dust free atmosphere.

Best rgds Simon

[colin branniganParticipant @colinbrannigan54160]

I started using "fag papers" for rolling a smoke when I bought a house and took out a mortgage in 1976, could not afford Players then and have always used fag paper for edge finding, feelers for flatness and for timing engines, infact I timed a 1954 Enfield this weekend and used the spoke down the plughole method to find TDC.

Casting my mind back the Red papers were the standard thickness as was the Green papers but the Green had cut corners for easier rolling in those little rolling machines, and the Blue papers were a thinner. My favourite smoke was Three Castles a very light brown tobacco, sadly it became unavailable in the 90s so I changed to tailor made Regal, then in 2015 I had a heart attack, had three stents fitted and the consultant said "you shouldn't smoke anymore" so I didn't, and I haven't since. But I often fancy a smoke but the fancy only lasts few seconds, but saying that if the heart attack hadn't happened I would be still be smoking I suppose costing me £3,500 per year.

Colin

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I claim the award for the most improbable reference to Rizla paper: **LINK**

https://pubs.rsc.org/en/content/articlehtml/2015/ta/c5ta00687b

MichaelG.

[Steve CrowParticipant @stevecrow46066]

A mate of mine has spent the last 40 years maintaining oboe's for a living. He gets through boxes of blue Rizla at work. Not sure what for though.

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by Steve Crow on 13/07/2020 22:30:23:

A mate of mine has spent the last 40 years maintaining oboe's for a living. He gets through boxes of blue Rizla at work. Not sure what for though.

Standard technique for woodwind players. The holes in the instrument are closed by a leather-covered pad when you press a key. The pads sometimes get a bit sticky with grut and moisture, so the action becomes slow and unpredictable. You put the paper between the pad and the hole, press the key lightly, slide the paper out and voila! (Not viola, that's in a different section.) The cigarette paper is strong, flexible, doesn't shed fibres, and at one time most players would have had a packet in their pocket.

George B.

Edited By Georgineer on 14/07/2020 12:49:49

[GeorgineerParticipant @georgineer]

Posted by John MC on 13/07/2020 18:05:49:

What do people use cigarette papers for? (other than smoking!).

For setting up the changewheels on a lathe. By putting a paper between the wheels it gives a small clearance and stops the gears from grinding together, and is spat out when you turn the wheels. I must admit I tend to use ordinary paper these days since the amount of clearance isn't critical.

George B.

[Robin GrahamParticipant @robingraham42208]

I obviously have too much time on my hands – a while back I also asked myself about thickness of fag papers, and made measurements of stacks of 1,2,3,4 and 5 papers, taking five measurements at 'random' locations for each stack. Results for Rizla green (X number of papers, Y thickness in microns):

Linear regression gives a slope of 24.56 +/- 0.18 microns, with 95% confidence interval 24.20 – 24.92 microns. So I think we can say a thou! No doubt, in time, metric papers will be available.

Robin.

 

 

 

Edited By Robin Graham on 14/07/2020 21:08:50

[oldveloParticipant @oldvelo]

Legge Millicutter Tobacco Cutting Machines use 4 tobacco papers to set the 4 Thou clearance for the knife clearances. Get it wrong and it can be very expensive.

Also used on milling machines stuck to a very lightly oiled work piece when the cutter rotating very slowly preferably by hand would brush it from the work you had 1 thou clearance.

Eric

[oldveloParticipant @oldvelo]

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Edited By oldvelo on 15/07/2020 04:07:29

[Neil LickfoldParticipant @neillickfold44316]

VHS video tape is good. About 0.02mm thickness. The long play tape is slightly thinner, but don't remember its thickness. EOC make 10um 0.01mm shim stock and 0.02mm shim stock as well. But is quite expensive per roll.

[thaiguzziParticipant @thaiguzzi]

Posted by John MC on 13/07/2020 18:05:49:

What do people use cigarette papers for? (other than smoking!).

I ask the question because I've never seen them used them in engineering.

I've seen "fag paper" being used to set the ignition timing on old motorcycles, not with good effect, difficult to get any "feel" with them, 1 1/2" thou feeler much better, would the same be true in whatever way the may be used in engineering?

John

Ps, never heard the trueing of a mill head called "tramming" until I joined this forum.

Disagree.

I've used green or blue Rizla papers timing points ignition (points just opening) on motorcycles for over 35 years. Even when i ran a professional workshop, it was my preferred method.

In the machine shop, i prefer Rizlas to edge finders or wigglers.

Re colours, thickness is virtually negligeable, blue being thinner if we are being picky, but red and green are more robust in a workshop enviroment, especially with oily fingers etc.

[martinjpayne1964Participant @martinjpayne1964]

I run 1/10 scale radio control cars for a hobby and have used green Rizlas to set spur/pinion gear mesh correctly, since the 1980s.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Yes I've used the cigarette paper method of ignition timing Harleys and Triumphs and Nortons for years too. Every time I've ever double checked with a strobe light it's been spot on. I use Australian made Tally-Ho brand. One colour: white. No idea of exact thickness. Nominally a thou or so I suppose.

[ChrisHParticipant @chrish]

+1 for using cigarette papers for setting milling cutters up against the part to be milled, didn't measure the paper thickness but just assumed it was one thou give or take a midges. Quite accurate enough for most of the stuff I do!

Only got the green, didn't know there were other colours as don't smoke and that was just what the lady in the shop gave me.

Chris

[Stuart BridgerParticipant @stuartbridger82290]

I have a box 30 year old continuous form computer paper under my office desk. Its 2 thou thick and does the same job as a rizla for setting the Z height on a milling cutter. Can't see me ever running out….

[MC Black 2Participant @mcblack2]

As I was walking back to my car after a medical appointment yesterday, I noticed a chap with a stall selling, inter alia, lighters and cigarette papers.

So I purchase three boxes of Rizla+ green for a pound.

I suspect that I now have a lifetime's supply!

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Be carefull there are some fake Rizla's around and they are out of spec.

regards Martin

[MC Black 2Participant @mcblack2]

How can one tell if one has genuine OR fake Rizla+?

I'll try measuring the thickness later.

Very many thanks for the warning.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by MC Black 2 on 08/08/2020 10:20:47:

How can one tell if one has genuine OR fake Rizla+?

I'll try measuring the thickness later.

Very many thanks for the warning.

Is Martin pulling our legs?

Cigarette paper isn't high-technology. Handy in a workshop because it's about a thou thick (0.02mm), which is accurate enough and about the right size for setting up machine tools for ordinary precision. It's a useful workshop trick, not toolroom accuracy!

Aluminium kitchen foil is rarely used for this purpose despite being thinner and more accurately made than cigarette paper. Reason – being waterproof, it fails the gob test!

Dave

[Mike PooleParticipant @mikepoole82104]

You can’t roll a joint with foil, but I suppose you can’t wrap food in a fag paper

Mike

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