Choosing a traction engine

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Hi All

This probably belongs in the beginners section so please move it if you want to (mods).

Anyway I am leaning towards making a Traction engine, pehaps a Burrell or similar 2" but I have seen a similar 3" (Is this going to be too much for a beginner?).

My real question is what form to buy it in.

From what I can work out I can by pretty much buy the finished article that I only have to add coal to right down to buying plans and a couple of cast bits.

I don't want to buy the former is the whole idea seems to me to actually build it yourself (not cheat). So how do you guys generally approach your build ?

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Making yourself is certainly the less expensive option, the STW kits are quite expensive.

What do you intend to do with teh finished model? if like me you prefer the build to actually rallying the engine then the smaller scales are OK. If you want to run it on grass then you want at a minimum a large 2" or small 3" but preferably larger.

For a simple TE then the Minnie in 2" rather than the usual 1" scale is a good option as is the 3" Little Samson which actually comes out the same sort of size as the Minnie as the prototype was small. the 2" Burrel is quite a small engine and there is also a lot of detail. 2" Fowler is a nice large 2" but again a more detailed engine so more parts to make.

You may want to consider a commercially made boiler and then machine all the parts to go onto this as at these sizes the boilers get quite large and if its your first boiler could become an expensive learning curve.

What size lathe and mill do you have as that will affect what you can machine to some extent.

J

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Jason

I have a Warco VMC mill & a Myford Super 7 lathe.

I may change to one of the bigger Warco lathes or a Harrison M300.

Chris

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

They will handle a 2" engine like the minnie as the flywheel and final drive at 9" will fit in the gap. a couple of the bits for the little samson would be too big a diameter. This is the nicest 2" Minnie I know of, if you look on you tube for "boy driving traction engine" you can get an idea of the size.

So you spent your time at the MEX drooling over that M300 did you, If you have that to spend then the late Model Bantan2000 they also have would be a nice toy.

If you are not a member of Traction Talk forum then join up as have a read through some of the builds in the miniatures section, quite a few are bigger engines but there are some smaller ones and its still the same things you will be making.

[Fred Nightingale 1Participant @frednightingale1]

Hi Chris

Like yourself I decided I wanted to build a Traction Engine, the only problem was I had very little experience in metalwork but had just purchased a Myford S7. I then spoke to a lot of people on what I should build and they all said "build as big as you possibly can", so I decided to go for a 3" Fowler A7 from MJ Engineering who can supply Drawings and a build manual.

The good thing about our hobby is there are a lot of nice people like Jason out there who are prepared to answer questions and give advice.

Since I start about 18 months ago I have purchased a Warco Mill and a ten ton press and things are progressing quite well

Fred

PS I have attached a couple of Pics to show my progress.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Yes that M300 looked nice but you don't need to own a big lathe to make a big engine. Remember most of the parts are smaller and within the scope of your myford and you can go to an evening class to machine the half a dozen big bits.

Did you notice the 3 engines steaming outside at Sandown, all 4in? One Burrell was significantly shorter than the other. There is such a lot of designs it it difficult to get a full appreciation of the differences if you are only looking at one at a time. With such a significant investment in time and money I suggest building up your reference information off the web but hold off a decision until you can get to the Guildford TE rally next year to see 30+ together.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Or if you can't wait until Guildford then Basingstoke has 70 plus engines, usually about mid April.

If you want a little light reading then Edward George's book is good.

Jason

PS Fred the back wheel looks good, bring it along on the 24th.

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Thanks J, I'll order that book.

I adored the 3 engines outside but there was a fair sized mob waiting to chat so I moved on.

Is there not a show at Alexanda Palace in January ?

Thanks for all your help (nice wheels too)

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

There was a part built 3 in Foster on the MJ Engineering stand at £3500 to give an idea of the price. Much of that would have been the boiler.

The show at Ally Pally normally has a few on display plus if you ask athe club stands they may be able to put you in touch with a builder. I will see if we can get one on the St Albans stand.

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Posted by JasonB on 03/11/2012 20:28:17:

Or if you can't wait until Guildford then Basingstoke has 70 plus engines, usually about mid April.

If you want a little light reading then Edward George's book is good.

Jason

PS Fred the back wheel looks good, bring it along on the 24th.

Jason

Just sitting here reading E Georges book and realised that I missed the Basingstoke show.

Did you have a date for the Guilford one you mentioned.

Chris

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Ignore that J

I found it

[Ady1Participant @ady1]

Might be worth buying

Traction Engines Worth Modelling & How to Model Them, W.J. Hughes

[chris jParticipant @chrisj]

Thanks Ady

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

I would not bother with the Hughes book, not a lot in it.

I'll be at Guildford Sat morning and Sun afternoon with a couple of they stationary steam engines.

J

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

TH Huges sbook is based on opne of a few series he did (locomotive, traction engines etc. worth modelling). Very nicely done (perhaps spuruiously accurate?) drawings of obscure and not-so-obscure prototypes, but no [practical advice on construction. I imagine the book is much the same.

Probably good if you are looking for inspiration and want to browse prototypes (and learn some traction engine history).

Didn't someone on here or in ME say they were going to make up a table of currenmt designs comparing overall size, boiler size etc?

Neil

[Chris Pattison 1Participant @chrispattison1]

The issue of which TE to model has also been a question I have tried to answer for myself. Clearly, the combination of prototype size and scale have a strong influence, but to my mind the real rule of thumb would be the finished weight of the engine.

The finished weight of the model would dictate how easily the model could be transported and stored. Once this is determined and a suitable weight decided upon, then the decision of which engine can be made – be it a large scale of a small prototype, or a smaller scale of a large prototype.

I would also be keen to see a table of commonly built TE's.

ChrisP

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

It would be particularly useful to have a sheet of silhouettes of lots of different engines all at the same scale, with a series of scales to show how big they would be at 1,2,3,4, 6 and 12" to the foot!

The other thing that would help is prototype weights and an idea of how the weight of an engine varies with scale as I doubt if follows an exact cube law?

Could make a good article for ME?

Neil

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Neil, I'm sure there was something of the sort in ME, maybe in the 1990s.

Ian S C

[Paul LousickParticipant @paullousick59116]

Neil,

These are a profiles of traction engines. They are drawn to scale to see the comparison between models.

If readers would like to send drawings of other engines, I can add them to the drawing.

Paul.

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

That's useful, Paul – clearly shows how one machine in 6" can be smaller than another in 4" scale.

I imagine that the benefits of 'chunkier controls' in 6" scale are useful too.

Neil

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

If the copyright of the images could be sorted out this would make a nice pullout poster for ME, needs some ploughing engines though.

The old Reeves site used to have nice drawings of all the models they did casting for, which was 90% of every design that had been in ME. Also the old MAP plans handbook had nice drawings.

[JohnFParticipant @johnf59703]

Hi folks this is the one branch of steam that Imhave an interest in and yes Neil a pull out or poster or online document would be most useful when deliberating over what to choose to build.

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