Choice of small milling machine

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

Hi folks and sorry for repeating this message to those of you who read it else where. Bit of a surprise for me and I don’t know why I didn’t see it before, but Axminster are selling this Sieg universal mill http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-su1-universal-mill-prod854146/ for a price comparable with the X3. It is a little smaller capacity (16mm versus 25mm cutters) with a 500w motor against the X3’s 600w. Does anyone have any experience of this mill?
Thanks
Dave

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Daid Haynes,

Sorry, no experience of the Sieg SU1, but it certainly looks promising.

I did, however, find a PDF of the manual
http://s3.amazonaws.com/machinetools_production/uploads/1145397/SU1.pdf

MichaelG.

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

David.

I would say that machine would be a good size for a clockmaker.

 

 

Martin.

[Roger WoollettParticipant @rogerwoollett53105]

Two points. The manual MichaelG points us at suggests that the motor has brushes (see fault finding) but Axminster quote brushless. I suspect Axminster are right but it would be worth checking. The lowest speed quoted is 200 rpm which sounds a bit high to me. A slitting saw used on steel might need a slower speed – I would rather see 50 rpm.

 

Roger Woollett

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Initial response:
Two excellent points, Roger.

It would certainly be nicer to have a Brushless Motor; and hopefully that one comes under “continuous development”.

Agreed, the lowest speed is a bit high, but that’s probably a necessary compromise at this price point.
… Who will be first to design a little epicyclic gearbox for this one ?

MichaelG.

Updated:
The Parts List actually shows Part_120 as 500W Brushless Motor [not to be confused with Part_40 which appears to be wrongly described in the Parts List … compare with the exploded view]
Page 8 gives the speed range as 0-2500 rpm

… It looks like a winner!

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 11:24:42

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 11:25:19

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 11:34:53

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

Thank you for the comments folks,

 

Martin, so okay for a clock maker, what size of locomotives? Of course it won’t do 1/8 scale, but probably something a bit smaller. Is the low headroom and small chuck (16mm) an issue and is the X3 (25mm and same price) a better bet?

 

Dave

[blowlampParticipant @blowlamp]

David.

The nose to table distance of 150mm max, makes it very limited in its capabilities once a vice and a reasonably sized drill are in use.

 

Tech Spec here http://www.axminster.co.uk/axminster-sieg-su1-universal-mill-prod854146/#bottomsection

 

 

Martin.

Edited By blowlamp on 29/11/2011 13:09:03

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

I noticed the Arc/Seig machines (lathe & mill) with brushless motors only go down to about 200rpm. I wonder if this is a precaution against overheating?

 

My ‘old’ Clarke Seiglathe and Arc Mill both happily go down to about a dozen rpm. Great for an unbalanced boring head.

 

Neil

[Steve WithnellParticipant @stevewithnell34426]

Hi and don’t forget to buy a copy of Harold Halls – “Milling a Complete Course”. Make some T nuts to get used to the machine and how it works.

 

And have fun !

 

 

Steve

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Very probable that 200rpm is a realistic bottom limit, both for torque and heat dissipation … although, as I mentioned earlier, the manual does indicate a range of 0-2500rpm.

I certainly think a little Epicyclic Gearbox would be the way to go.

MichaelG.

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 20:09:34

Edited By Michael Gilligan on 29/11/2011 20:11:11

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

I’ve missed the boat! With all this looking into which milling machine I want to buy and deciding on the X3/Imperial/R8 spindle, now that I contact ArcEuro, they’ve sold all the Sieg X3/Imperial/R8 spindle they have and the next order will be in late January/early February. Dash, no treat for Christmas! ” src=”http://s2.images.proboards.com/sad.gif”>
However, my route to get here has been Sieg X2 –> Amadeal? –> Chester Eagle 25 –> Sieg X3/Imperial/R8 spindle. So I suppose the not dashing at the first start will mean that what I get is the best option for me. It also means I can fix the new electrics for the mill and sort out the dolls house for my daughter’s Christmas present. Look at the good side of a poor do (sadly, the price in the new year will go back up again and no freebies, but I’ll have to turn a blind eye to that!)
Many thanks for the interest
Dave

[Les Jones 1Participant @lesjones1]

Hi David,

If you plan to fit a DRO to your mill it does not matter if it is metric or imperial.

I did reply to your PM but you have not yet read the reply.

The £126 pound difference would could go towards a DRO.

 

Les.

[maurice bennieParticipant @mauricebennie99556]

Hi everyone, I have the smallest axminster micro mill for three years now .because of minimum space that was all I could fit in.It has been very useful and has done all I have asked of it .toys for the children ,repairing things around the house and helped me build a three wheeled Lomax . It is the space which governs what you can have. I have had no problems with it,Minimum speed is100rpm max 2000rpm .I am now using it as a router to make tomas the tank engine track for the great grand sons ,and its working well.

I have enjoyed all the letters and hope my two penny worth has helped

best wishesMaurice.

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

I am fascinated how you did the toy railway track with a mill as a router. What types of track panels did you make and how did you ensure the two troughs were parallel.

Dave

[Francis SykesParticipant @francissykes95134]

Hi there – first post on here so hello!

 

On the Sieg SU1 – there is a review for this that is fairly comprehensive if you click:

 

http://www.mini-lathe.com/mini_mill/reviews/U1/U1.htm

 

There was a U2 on quillstar that I very nearly bought – it was a little more conventional in that the head moved rather than being a mini knee arrangement that the SU1 has. That took the work envolope out to around 200mm. Took some finding of info though – the chap at Quillstar said they were pretty expensive when new.

 

Glad I missed it though – I’ve got a WM18 clone on order for delivery this month, think the extra size will help me a lot more with some of the projects I’d like to do.

 

Maurice – the Lomax sounds like fun – 2CV based is it not?

[maurice bennieParticipant @mauricebennie99556]

Hi David . The track is made from 1/2″ ply clamped on the table parallel with the edge,using a 1/4″ cutter it will cut with and across the grain ,it does leave a rough edge with the grain but as the cutter leaves the wood it takes all of the rough edge off.

All you do then is to wind the table out to give the width and plough on giving parallel tracks ,but only straight ones .I am now making up a large table to clamp to the top of my rotary table to cut curves (I hope).I am doing this so that I can build toys that I can not buy.

I will tell you if my turntable works.

Hi also to Francis I built the lomax when I retired in 86 and its been on the road since then .Its been much modified .The fly wheel is lighter.,3/4 of the weight has gone ,ignition is now fully electronic with auto advance and retard ,Harley davidson coil giving better sparks .It is now more reliable and better to drive .Had more fun with this car than all the others Ive had . I love making and repairing anything.

best wishes to all ,Maurice

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

I don’t think that, in these economic times, any particular company tries to maximise it’s profits excessively, but I do wonder why some similar machines are so vastly different in price. But then, are they really all that similar and is there a hidden cost that you pick up to your grief in a few years. Compare

Engineer’s Tool Room BMD-20 http://www.engineerstoolroom.co.uk/bmd-20.htm,

Amadeal AMA25LV http://www.amadeal.co.uk/acatalog/R8_Spindle.html,

Chester Champion 20V http://www.chestermachinetools.com/Products/Product.aspx?ProductID=24,

Warco WM16 http://www.warco.co.uk/milling-machines/32-wm-16-variable-speed-milling-machine.html and

ArcEuro Sieg X3 http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Machines-Accessories/Milling-Machines/Model-X3-Small-Mill.

It is even recommended that the last of the list has a strip down preparation before use.

 

Dave

[WolfieParticipant @wolfie]

Some of those Chester ones look OK

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

I would prefer to get the purpose made stand for the Sieg X3 mill when I order it, but both Arc and Axminster have sold out. I need a narrow item the size of that stand as space is limited. What have others used successfully for the X3?

Thanks

Dave

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

Get a length of 50 x 50 x5 or 6 mm angle iron, and a hack saw, thats the way I built the stand/ bench for my 1326 BH lathe, its 380Kg. I cut the steel by hand, and used a mates welder. Did get a sore arm out of it, trying to get it all done too quickly. Its still going OK, been through earthquakes, and did not require any adjustment, perhaps its because when I built the workshop, the area where the lathe was to go was double thickness (200 mm), and extra steel in the floor. You could do as I did with the lathe bench, put sheet metal sides (you could use plywood), and a door on the front.

Sorry my mill is on a wooden bench, I know its wrong, but I,v never got round to doing any better. Ian S C

ps; secondhand steel is ok, even if it has a bit of rust, a few extra holes, and welded on bits ground off with the angle grinder.

Edited By Ian S C on 10/12/2011 09:53:35

[David HaynesParticipant @davidhaynes53962]

I have just had an email from Axminster who have said their prices will rise significantly:-
Axminster SIEG X3/Imperial/R8 Mill Drill £996 –> £1230
Axminster ER32 Precision Collet Holder – R8 Order code: 910231 £42 –> £28
Axminster SIEG X3/Super X3 Floor Stand Order code: 210114 £191 –> £220
12mm T Slot Clamp Kit for Mills Order code: 951675 £36 –> £43

Also they now supply in early May, same as ArcEuro
Dave

[Francis SykesParticipant @francissykes95134]

Ouch!

 

This morning I received my SPG milling machine – it’s the 2217-III – glad I did because I’m sure the price pressure will come in across all suppliers, they’re all sourcing from similar places outside of these shores and subject to exchange rate fluctuations, and of course rising prices of metals.

 

On the subject of table – I didn’t even look into the production options, as I’ll make my own. I did something similar for my lathe table (still need to wire up the old thing) – but I used a construction of mainly 30X30X3mm mild steel box section, and welded it. If you can weld, or know someone who could do it for you, it’s a good way to build, simply, a sturdy stand.

 

I tacked 1.6mm sheet to the outside, and made some 3mm plate doors for it too, so now it is a handy tool storage cupboard under the working surface.

 

I’ll do something similar with the mill, but I’ll put this on wheels. Then add some captive nuts to the base so I can jack the ‘cupboard’ off the wheels and level up accordingly.

 

David, if you have the money available to purchase a machine, I think I’d recommend you decide what you want soon and get on with it. The lead times won’t be going down and I suspect prices won’t be either. I’d have a look at SPG too, you’ll be able to guess what machines they have when you see the picture, so far I’m impressed (pre-chip-making impression)

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

 

 

> rising prices of metals

I saw cast-iron bar-end weghts inTesco today, for a small fraction of what a disc of CI would cost. Obviously not meehanite, but I read at least one article where someone made a flywheel from such a weight – sadly these would only suit a three-spoker

 

Neil

[SpringbokParticipant @springbok]

Hi

Whatever you purchase and I speak from bitter experiance and it now sits in a corner do NOT please purchase one with a round pillar. I eventualy bought a Chester626 with power feed DRO et all; and have never regreted the expence. built a 7.25g on it a 5″ and a few 3.5 trains Used 3 grandsons and grandaughters partner to assist in installation.

 

Can I come down to the Defence of David Warren of Warco I have known him for many years and is a decent chap also knew his father when they were based in Esher.

I am convinced that these days most of these machines no matter what colour or flavour come out of the same factory, you just have to look at the grizzly.com web site in the USofA and I am sure you will spot your machine. Oh thats where you can download a non chingalees manuals.

Bob

 

[martin perman 1Participant @martinperman1]

Bob,

 

I’m curious as to why you baulk at a round column mill, I have one and it does what I expect of it willingly so whats the problem with them.

 

Martin P

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