Chinese lathe

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

That's a good point about quality control, you often find Chinese engineering tools don't have tolerance specs listed anywhere, so it's literally a lottery whether you get something you're happy with.

[Ketan SwaliParticipant @ketanswali79440]

Posted by Pete. on 26/02/2021 17:35:39:

Posted by Chris Crew on 25/02/2021 23:58:43:

Edited By Chris Crew on 26/02/2021 00:00:24

I'll stick to engineering products, otherwise it's not relevant to this forum, compare Vertex products to Chinese products, there's a clear difference in quality control.

Please… let’s all calm down and keep our views moderated and polite.

Vertex is a Taiwan brand. A very high percentage of their products are generic – made in mainland China by sub-contract manufacturing . They just have good Q.C., stock holding and marketing.

Ketan at ARC

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

Posted by Ketan Swali on 26/02/2021 17:54:54:

Posted by Pete. on 26/02/2021 17:35:39:

Posted by Chris Crew on 25/02/2021 23:58:43:

Edited By Chris Crew on 26/02/2021 00:00:24

I'll stick to engineering products, otherwise it's not relevant to this forum, compare Vertex products to Chinese products, there's a clear difference in quality control.

Please… let’s all calm down and keep our views moderated and polite.

Vertex is a Taiwan brand. A very high percentage of their products are generic – made in mainland China by sub-contract manufacturing . They just have good Q.C., stock holding and marketing.

Ketan at ARC

That's specifically why I mentioned Vertex, to make the point that they can make acceptable products, but a culture of allowing items that have left factories without QC tarnishes that.

[An OtherParticipant @another21905]

For what its worth, I'll sit on the side of Chris Crew. I took this hobby up as a change from (or perhaps an extension) to my work as an electronics engineer – and I want to stress the hobby aspect. It became clear that I would never have all the money to spend on it that some people clearly have, so I had no choice but to do the best I could with what I had, but then I never had the intention of producing anything to 'Rolls' standard: just to keep myself interested and entertained.

Many years back, when Chinese stuff began to appear on the market, this was great as far as I was concerned, I could afford some of it, and it helped me take my interests further. I concede that some of it was not of the best quality, and I spent many happy hours modifying and improving my chinese lathe and mill – and I would never have been able to afford a lathe from any other source.

I have no problem with people wanting to produce the best work they can – but surely that is the point? – if you do it as a hobby, then what is wrong with simply doing the best you can within the limits of your funds and abilities? I would surely not have given it all up just because I could not afford the 'best' kit on the market – I did it for pleasure, not fame or profit.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

An Other, in all honesty, as long as the buyer is happy, that's all that matters, I often think peoples expectations far outweigh their financial investment, when people buy a £25 set of collets off ebay, then come here and start a thread about their disappointment, I can't help but think what did you expect.

What rubbed me up the wrong way was the name calling.

[Martin KyteParticipant @martinkyte99762]

Taking a few steps back, the correct way of setting up change wheels is such that they do not rub but also don't have excessive backlash. One good way of achieving this is to use paper strip. It's not the only way.

regards Martin

[Tom SheppardParticipant @tomsheppard60052]

The correct way to do sometthing varies between engineers and bogmatism doesn' t help. Nor does the blanket condemnation of products from China. The work produced on them gives the lie to that. A Myford is a thousand pounds and fifteen hundred with a new coat of paint but it might be knackered and how is a beginner to know? The Chinese equivalent needs work, all of which is explained in many tutorial videos, freely available. It is new and half the price. Accessories are readily and cheaply available and their availability brings many people into the hobby, most of whom don't have the space, money nor skills to get the best out of a ton and a half of toolroom lathe.

[Nigel Smith 4Participant @nigelsmith4]

Slightly off tangent to the original post, concerning Chinese lathes. I have a Harrison L6 lathe built in the UK in 1965, and a Chinese Sealey SM27 mini lathe built in 2020.

The finish of the Sealey is what I would describe as 'agricultural', for example bits of filler have fallen off and the castings are quite rough, the bearings are of an unknown quality. BUT… the finish and accuracy of anything I make on the Sealey lathe is just as good as anything I make on my 56 year old British Harrison lathe.

The Sealey is a cheap Chinese lathe (I paid around £2k with some accessories and a stand), the Harrison would have cost thousands in 1965. I admit I was sceptical buying 'Chinese crap' (as described earlier) but for the price I cannot complain, indeed if it were not for 'Chinese crap' many of us here would not be owners of lathes and enjoy the pleasures of turning.

For what it's worth, I did work for Rolls Royce!

Nigel.

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Can I drag this thread back to the original question …..

If I understand Julian's enquiry, he is merely asking what gear selection will provide a "reasonable" feed rate for turning. I don't think it matters overly much. For example, I have selected the lowest ratio of gears I can in the train to give a minute (as in small – not time) travel per revolution of the spindle. I haven't worked out what that is and it doesn't really matter to me. It just gives a very fine feed, which is what I was after. Yes, it takes forever to make a long cut, but, hey, I'm not in a hurry and I'm happy with the finish I get. Just try a few set-ups and see what happens.

The only time Julian will need to pay attention to gear selection will be when he graduates to screw cutting and needs a specific thread pitch. But that's a whole new can of worms, worthy of a new thread. Or better still, a search of the forum for the myriad of threads that have already beaten that subject to death.

Now I'll let you get back to your off-topic debate!

(No wonder Julian hasn't replied to this thread and his post count remains stubornly at 1.)

John

 

Edited By John Hinkley on 27/02/2021 09:25:43

[Mick B1Participant @mickb1]

Another vote for Chris Crew and his backers. Engineering is an attitude of mind – it's making what you want with what you've got, or have the ability or patience to make for yourself.

Back in the mid '70s I bought a Mitutoyo mic and Vernier set. People used to sneer at 'Jap-crap' at the time, but those gauges are still working now – and where are the Sinclair Black Watches and Cambridge self-assembly scientific calculators now, that others were spending their hard-earned on in those days?

Teaching established methods as holy writ is pointless. Many of us have lived and worked long enough to know the world changes, and what's a sparkling new way of doing things at one time can become a restrictive, hide-bound orthodoxy a couple of decades down the line.

Edited By Mick B1 on 27/02/2021 09:40:09

[john halfpennyParticipant @johnhalfpenny52803]

I'm with Chris as well. In my apprenticeship I was taught the prejudices of my instructor and the approved methods of my employer (aka prejudices of the chief engineer). Most of these were excellent practices which I espouse to this day, but some held me back until I understood that other good and safe methods were available, even those which I would at one time decry as being dreadful short cuts and bound to lead to poor results.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

but some held me back until I understood that other good and safe methods were available,

Something to do with being ‘able to think for yourself’. Some can, some can’t and some are not allowed to do so.

I’m sure that the ones able to think and reason for themselves would soon compare the backlash obtained with a standard sheet of paper and replicate that amount quite closely (and most certainly close enough) as long as the other precautions are followed (it’s not a recommendation, to check backlash in several positions of the gearing, for no good reason). Sheets of paper are not all the same.

What you don’t do is try to run before you can walk!

[Howard LewisParticipant @howardlewis46836]

Hi Chris,

At least we agree on something, that this will never be resolved for both of us to agree. You have have your belief, and I have mine based on my experience of engines and fuel injection equipment, where fitness for purpose in paramount in competitive markets.

Never been called an "anorak" before. Based on what i would describe as scant knowledge, and an inability or inclination to count rivets, that has to be a compliment!

Howard.

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