Chinese geared head lathe

[TPWParticipant @tpw]

[TPWParticipant @tpw]

While looking at the australian website machines4u.com.au I came across

a geared head lathe with 12 spindle speeds from 80- 1600rpm and full screwcutting gearbox .It has a swing of 250mm and 500mm between centres with power cross feed. It is being sold for about 2000 australian dollars which

is arround £1000. It is sold under the name Hafco AL250G

There is no similar machine available in the UK which is a shame.

Warco used to sell a small geared head machine – the BV20 which is no longer available but it had no screwcutting gearbox. I think the cheapest geared head machine available here is arround £2000 with a 300mm swing.The suppliers in the UK seem to have gone for variable speed machines with minimal feed rate selection.

[JonParticipant @jon]

Its the same base machine from numerous UK and US sellers the only difference is the build spec namely the gearbox or lack of and speed selection.

Looks like its only a metric thread cutting machine and a few common metric pitches missing, hence why cheap.
Would have thought considering what Aus sellers want for shipping small items air mail the transport costs would be prohibitive.

More info here **LINK**

**LINK** Costs more but get a lot more. Available in UK.

Geared head will be noisy and certain variations on that theme are near on impossible to select other speeds due to inferior design and build. I would personally have to investigate in person how tolerable. Easy way out charge more and make variable speed with no torque.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

It looks to me that it has all the common metric threads and more. No suggestion of imperial not even change wheels but you can probably make some and there are other ways to achieve imperial threading.
The range of speeds seems to match a typical back geared machine.
I found a thread on a woodwork forum which may be interesting. I have only read a bit and be aware the contributors seem to be somewhat "technically challenged" when it comes to screwcutting.

So at first glance it looks pretty good. Is the $AU that bad – my left over holiday money is down the tubes then.

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

This lathe was offered by Warco, or sort of offered by them. I saw it on display on their stand at Harrogate or Warwickshire maybe a couple of years ago.

Warco called it the GH 520, not to be confused with their larger GH 550 gear head lathe. But despite them having the GH 520 on display, and a short article I read about it somewhere that declared it as the latest addition to their range, it never seems to have been listed in their catalog. At a more recent show I did ask one of their salesman about it, but he denied all knowledge of it and just fooled about.

When I examined it at the time they had it on display it wasn't too bad. It had a plain type spindle flange, a 12 speed all geared headstock controlled by a rotary dial, power cross feed plus longitudinal power feed independent of the lead screw thread and a quick change screw cutting gear box with 15 feed rates.

I can't remember the exact price for it, but it was somewhere between £1000 & £1500.

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

They were probably testing the market at the show. They did that when considering relaunching the BH600. Has it on the stand at ally pally and a google search revealed a hidden page on their site ready to go. However they didn't get lots of orders so canned it in favour of the bigger gear heads that were becoming more popular.

[TPWParticipant @tpw]

Lathejack

Interesting about the Warco GH520. It seems that it was the same machine as the HAFCO AL250G. I found a mention of it in a pdf from TEE Publishing. teepublishing.co.uk/uploads /DOC52FCD76535E8D.pdf under the title Developments at Warco. Maybe the problems with the motor start capacitors mentioned on the woodwork forum put them off.

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

 

TPW.

The Tee Publishing article may have been the one I read. Despite the Warco salesmans very awkward and unhelpful attitude and behaviour, I knew for certain that I had seen that lathe displayed on their stand.

It could be as Bazyle suggests and was just a sample machine to gauge interest, although i am sure it was fully finished in Warco's green and yellow paint job. For a fully featured gear head lathe it was quite compact, the 520 label referring to its 5 inch centre hight and 20 inches between centres.

Edited By Lathejack on 31/08/2015 15:09:19

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Warco do a gear head with hardened and ground gears – that's what is needed for low noise levels. I've never heard one running but have used a number of colchesters, dsg;s, holbrooks, langs and others where the noise levels from the gearbox is very low. The motor can easily makes more noise under load. These were all in pristine condition. They get louder with wear. I've no idea how well the warco lathe gears are ground but it might be costly to match the main makers so there is a need to be realistic.

Being weird I am currently looking for a small true metric lathe. I visited a used Axmister BV20M a couple of days ago. Gear head and I suspect a slightly stretched version of what was the well regarded 918. I found it interesting compared with similar machines now. It seems to be very well made and rather heavy as a result. Only light use and one owner. Noise levels ruled it out for me but it wasn't that bad. Bigger than needed too. Similar noise levels to the small millers that were sold with a speed reduction gear but "more continuous". I'm only a few yards from the living room so have to be careful on that point. There was a belt drive version of this about as well.

Now we get a combination of casting kits and electronic speed control without enough pulley settings to give either a good speed range or sufficient torque reading through the lines. 2,500rpm to make sure the bearing wear out quickly if that sort of speed is used much especially with 3 morse spindle. Looking around has left me feeling a bit jaundiced about the whole area especially at the small end.

One interesting aspect of the sort of lathe mentioned is that it seems that they can easily be bought in 0z and can be bought in the USA and they aren't that expensive either. Reports on them when they can be found seem pretty good really considering the cost. But the weigh a lot more and also take up more room in a container. It also seems to me that profit percentages grow markedly in the UK as what might be called usability increases. On the other hand I have seen adds for machines where the seller points out that the details are a guide only and the actual product might vary when it's supplied. Wonderful business model. Might be good for them but not for buyers.

Rant over. I'm a bit hissed off on this subject.

John

–

[LathejackParticipant @lathejack]

I have a 13 inch swing by 30 inch geared head Warco lathe that I bought new over 10 years ago. The headstock gears are exceptionally quiet in most of the speeds, even quieter than some new belt change lathes I have heard in the past. Since fitting a 3 phase motor the buzzy vibration and drumming noise have disappeared so that the oil splashing about in the headstock can be heard.

Ignoring my lathes dreadful quality of assembly by the factory, the headstock components themselves are very well made. The gear teeth flanks are finely ground with some of the gears hardened.

But the noise levels are not always consistent, one headstock can make more racket than another of the same model. As you go down the price range the internals may not be finished to the same standards.

I have never seen the gear head lathe that TPW is interested in being offered by anyone in the UK other than Warco as the GH 520, briefly, so it's a bit of a mystery how well they actually run.

Edited By Lathejack on 31/08/2015 16:01:51

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

If some one want a lathe that is a bit bigger this one is around as well and hopefully no gear noise but it would be best to check

**LINK**

Personally I would find the screw cutting gearbox more useful than variables speed as the feed rate can be changed more quickly. Is it any good – I really don't know and would hope dual dials didn't mean 0.001" = 0.025mm, might be ok if the 0.025mm was real. I notice the don't mention cross slide travel – an important number when a lathe has a gap bed. The spindle speed for one that large is pretty sensible

John

–

[BazyleParticipant @bazyle]

Interesting link John. That is a BH600 / chester craftsman with a metric leadscrew so I wonder what they have done with the gearbox. A lot of the current small to medium lathes with knob type selectors have a bit of a mess of a few metric and a few imperial but need lots of external gear changes aswell. Even the popular Grizzly G0750G in the US falls into this trap.

[JonParticipant @jon]

Nearly bought a Chester BH600 then £1150 now £2k with DRO same as Warco and that last link, glad I didn't.
Speed change not too much hassle you lift up the top head so no tools to be left on top and move belts over various pulleys, works ok.

What put me off there were a couple of common pitches missing. Even worse them gearboxes, selection will destroy you could be there 10 mins and still not engage like so many other gearbox styles of Asian imports. Cannot understand from the copying capital of the world why they haven't copied the Harrison/Colchester gearbox, no need to faff about with change wheels, just select and dial in whether metric or imperial and have been around a good 40 years.

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

Speed change appears to be via a hinged end cover on the lathe I linked to. For belt changes not as nice as a rear countershaft arrangement and probably a bit more fiddly but manageable. What I have done with my lathe is fit a 6 pole motor and inverter. That in itself gives me fairly safe 4 to 6 pole speed range where full motor power is available and zero risk of the motor overheating or bursting and those figures can be pushed a bit further if needed.

A year or so ago I was tempted to buy some metric coventry die chaser inserts complete with a holder for hand chasers. Not many pitches so I asked about other more and was told that there weren't any and that these were the ISO standards. I'd guess they probably relate to threads that should be used for none standard parts. These might be what the gearbox offers. In any case the odd gear change isn't really a problem.

There are chinese lathes about where screw cutting is all via switches but you wont buy a new one for 2K or anything like it. People who sell items like that usually expect people to visit so details can be scant. This one may have that type of screw cutting gearbox. From last time I visited some of the other larger ones they do will have. Some years ago and on a cast iron stand weighing in at over 2 tonne for a relatively small lathe. They had several of them on their way out to customers. They seem to have settled on a circa 600mm swing now.

**LINK**

John

–

[hthParticipant @hth]

Hi

HAFCO is the brand name of Hare&Forbes, machinery dealers , they have a store about an hours drive from me. They sell to hobby machinists and the trade . The stuff they sell is of Asian origin and you take your chances if you buy anything from them. Some people are quite happy with their purchases but others not so. I bought a Fueda brand chuck from them which seems OK . Mike

[AjohnwParticipant @ajohnw51620]

There are lots of them about in all countries. Some local in engineering areas some far away but in terms of what people get there is a need to be realistic price wise within reason. Some only sell the dearer machines and nothing else at all. They often also sell a range of cnc machines which can make them easy to find via google. Those are pricey though – really pricey.

John

–

[Author]

Posts