Change to the Code of Conduct

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

Posted by Emgee on 27/08/2020 10:48:07:

Just added a link to an information sheet in a post and now instead of the link address showing as LINK it provides the page linked to details, that's a big improvement IMO as you can see where you are likely to end up at.
No doubt this has been introduced to help moderators with the CoC.

Emgee

I don't think any changes have been made, to be honest.

If find that if you delete the "http:\" at the start of the display text, not the link, it will display it properly instead of *link*

Neil

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Barrie Lever on 27/08/2020 09:20:47:

I am in full agreement with Peter Shaw's comments.

I have to say it was very clear what the moderators wanted to achieve by the revised C of C, I could link to a number of responsible companies and there would not be any issue with that at all, the clue is in "may delete".

Do I need to send out for another bag of popcorn or is the entertainment about to end?

B.

Well I may miss the item in a post as I can't read everything, I may only look so far down a creators list of videos, I may miss something if it's not in the title of their videos, I may get beaten to it by another moderator, I may feel its acceptable and leave it, etc. With no set list of suppliers or sources its down to making the call.

No different to approving a first post, you get a gut feeling with some and delete them others you let by and they could turn out to be spammers.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

My Android does not put a particularly identifiable name to an image unless I know the date it was taken but I can usually put my had to any of the 2000 plus images that I have hosted on here. Would hate to have to look back through my phone for one anytime I want to post it as I often use images that have been uploaded in posts several times which would be the case if only uploading direct from my phone and not using an album or hard disc storage on the PC.

My biggest worry if the forum were to change to different software is the possible loss of albums and maybe even all old posts but that is probably best kept for another thread!

Edited By JasonB on 27/08/2020 12:07:40

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 27/08/2020 11:34:36:

Posted by Emgee on 27/08/2020 10:48:07:

Just added a link to an information sheet in a post and now instead of the link address showing as LINK it provides the page linked to details, that's a big improvement IMO as you can see where you are likely to end up at.
No doubt this has been introduced to help moderators with the CoC.

Emgee

I don't think any changes have been made, to be honest.

If find that if you delete the "http:\" at the start of the display text, not the link, it will display it properly instead of *link*

Neil

I suspect that Emgee added the hyperlink during an Edit

… The behaviour changes

MichaelG.

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

The recent debate following my query about LED failures (Coping with Voltage Spikes) shows that some UK readers are not at all clear about what the regulations require (ie what is legal or not) in the UK. I wonder what qualifications the overseers of this forum have to carry out the new policy without getting it wrong themselves?

Who shall police the policemen?

Regards, Tim

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Tim StevensParticipant @timstevens64731]

I am not suggesting that the plan is bad – but a plan with no competent enforcement is really worse than no plan at all. It penalises those who always do what they should while giving free rein and its advantages to those it is meant to control. We surely have enough experience, recently, of government instructions which turned out to be fundamentally cock-eyed, because they weren't thought through properly. Algorithm, anyone?

What would help, perhaps is some idea of what exactly is meant by 'sellers who may be supplying goods not properly covered by UK safety or consumer legislation.' A few examples of relevant legislation would help.

As an example, there are many suppliers of useful stuff who also sell other products of no interest to us. Amazon, for example. Does the code only apply to those products of use to model engineers, or to the whole range?

Regards, Tim

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Tim, maybe it's not clear from the COC, but what I gathered from Jason's and Neil's replies on this thread is that any mention of reviews and products from the likes of banggood, aliexpress, ebay of chinese tooling which are not imported by forum advertisers, will be deleted. And the same applies to videos of anyone who may at some point have reviewed any such products. Draconian if you ask me, but as the forum is privately funded by these advertisers, and they have objected, than I guess we have to put up with it…

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

I think whatever the rules and variations are, Moderators will always have an impossible task. Complaints about how the web site works, why is the method of attaching photo's is 'draconian', etc, abound, but no one is prepared to step up with the money, time and effort to fund it and try to do better…Life in general is making the best of a varied set of compromises. If you really feel you have been done by, with your post being 'unfairly' deleted, take it up in a PM with the moderators, but generally things work OK, no?

I do however think the guidelines leave the slightly finer points open to confused interpretation sometimes. I understand the issue of competitive advertising , and even non-competitive direct advertising, but does that not preclude many a useful set of information to modellers from being aired?

For example, in 2017 I posted my experiences in procuring a set of MULTIFIX tool holders, and associated KOMET cutting tips – I think that info would still be of good value to fellow modellers, but would that now be precluded under the present setup?

I am subsequently reluctant to add the reference to my postings ( you can find it if you dig yourself, I guess) but Jason maybe you could provide some guidance on this? Not moaning, just trying to calibrate my understanding of the rules!

Joe

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

With one paid and one unpaid active Moderator and MTM's linmted budget I doubt there is any way that Competent Moderators in every field will be likely, they will need to show upto date qualifications as that is the usual way to show competence, have to be vetted and no doubt expect payment.

One quick example for you Tim would be a review of an item of electrical equipment, lets say a small welder, supplied direct from one of the sources Chris has mentioned above supplied with no form of CE marking and with a plug that did not suit that countries sockets, give the supplier their dues they do supply a 2 pin adaptor but as the moulded plug on the welder is of the Euro 2pin plus side earth type and the adaptor a plain 2 pin without earth not a lot of good. That item happens to have been reviewed and promoted by the same creator that ChrisB linked to the other day.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Joe, your tips and holders no doubt came from a reputable supplier not just one who advertises here and that is acceptable as they are likely to be paying the taxes that they charge on the item, making sure any electrical goods comply with their countries regulations etc. If every detail were put into the CoC it would run on for pages and be more like the T&Cs which is likely to put most people off reading it, I expect up until this thread was started many had not even read the CoC or knew where to find it.

——————–

No one is going to get banned from the forum for posting something that gets removed unless they purposely do it a number of times so like the Moderators use your judgemet about what you include and if it even needs to be included.

Taking ChrisB's thread as an example he went to the trouble to word his question in such a way that it stands on it's own without the links unlike some that may just post a link and say "what do you think of this" where the other members have to follow whatever this maybe without even a hint of what the link will take them to.

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by JasonB on 28/08/2020 07:17:44:

One quick example for you Tim would be a review of an item of electrical equipment, lets say a small welder, supplied direct from one of the sources Chris has mentioned above supplied with no form of CE marking and with a plug that did not suit that countries sockets, give the supplier their dues they do supply a 2 pin adaptor but as the moulded plug on the welder is of the Euro 2pin plus side earth type and the adaptor a plain 2 pin without earth not a lot of good. That item happens to have been reviewed and promoted by the same creator that ChrisB linked to the other day.

As an aside that can only add to your woes Jason, if reading the post in a non UK country then any reference to CE or UK mains connectors is just as unwise – Please continue to do your best but I think you will never manage to keep this housekeeping task under control.

While the aim to avoid 'paid for' reviews and recommendations to buy from un-monitored advertisers is a worthy one in the end all an individual can rely on is caveat emptor and their own common sense. This is not a nanny state and I doubt you really have the time to become a nanny!

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Indeed Nick but as the majority of the membership is UK based and the supplier would send the same item to any where in the world we have to generalise a bit and not nit pick. 

The fact that it was not supplied with correct plug and/or adaptor for Australia where the reviewer was could have left him with an unearthed welder 

 

Edited By JasonB on 28/08/2020 09:11:43

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Posted by JasonB on 28/08/2020 07:27:36:

Joe, your tips and holders no doubt came from a reputable supplier not just one who advertises here and that is acceptable as they are likely to be paying the taxes that they charge on the item, making sure any electrical goods comply with their countries regulations etc.

I understand that concept Jason – no problem there. The holders were from China, the tips from Germany – The latter no doubt comply with your italic statement, the former? This is where it is a little grey for me..The Chinese supplier is well known, but then so are Banggood..

I won't become paranoid over this – If I think the knowledge is worth posting I'll give it a bash and let You be the judge!

As an aside, would we be permitted insight into the membership base – number of UK members versus rest of the world? Be interesting!

Joe

 

Edited By Joseph Noci 1 on 28/08/2020 10:03:45

[Neil WyattModerator @neilwyatt]

There are two issues that cause particular problems: 'Grey imports' that may not meet UK safety requirements and sites that use various strategies to avoid UK taxes to undercut prices.

As a minor example of the former I give the example of my own Nikon camera which I 'grey imported' (which did include paying the import tax!) several years ago. The camera is fine but the integrated (NIkon) charger plug was a hideous thing for another country with two bare metal blades. It may have been intended for a US 110V outlet but was 240V compatible. What I ended up doing was gluing the charger permanently into a UK adaptor as it would have been easy to get a shock otherwise. I have heard of worse…

Neil

[Bob WildParticipant @bobwild67557]

I notice that there are a miriad of opinions, one for each person who replies. I can only reflect on when my company decided to redesign our software. So we gathered all interested parties and each and everyone had a different idea what the look and feel should be. In the end I said “yes” and some time later said “this is what it will look like” (actually based on the colour of my car). Sometimes what you need is a Benevolent Dictator

[Nick Clarke 3Participant @nickclarke3]

Posted by Neil Wyatt on 28/08/2020 10:50:50:

What I ended up doing was gluing the charger permanently into a UK adaptor as it would have been easy to get a shock otherwise. I have heard of worse…

Neil

My technicians did the same to two anglepoise-type desk lamps but they were rejected by the PAT tester – they had to be disposed of, so one is on my lathe and the other on the mill. Legally with my boss's permission!

Not all bad then!

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