Change to the Code of Conduct

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by XD 351 on 26/08/2020 10:28:00:

Another thing i was wondering is what if the creator of a video is a company that doesn’t advertise on this site ? Let me think now – I will pick one, lets say a U.S based machine tool company who made some excellent youtube videos ( i deleted the name so the moderators don’t have to – jk !) there is always going to be some advertising of their products in their videos which essentially is the same as a review . What about channels that are sponsored ? What if this video is bought to you by such and such which is a direct competitor to one of the advertisers here ? Will they kick up a stink ?

As I said on page two:

No problem with linking to UK, European or worldwide suppliers that are bona fide companies who comply with their tax, safety, etc laws does not restrict you to only mentioning our advertisers so you could for example mention Warco, Greenwood, ARC or Cutwell APT, Zoro, or RC Machine, Barrie's BT30 supplier & GHW or PM Research, Ej Winter and so on.

This would cover links to the suppliers directly or video posted by them or with links to them.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Thanks for the clarification Jason, not that I agree with it, but I appreciate the moderator's efforts.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

The u-tuber, Chris linked to, does have some interesting vids but I hate reviews of the freebies, which they are provided with, getting rave reviews for what is often a poor quality item from a supplier with no customer back-up.

There is (currently) one clear example of blatant advertising where a well known modeller has received a newly developed item (for review) long before one can even pre-order (for delivery in a couple of months time).

That item may well be good and may well even suit some model engineers, but it most certainly demonstrates the worth of advertising to that manufacturer/supplier.

I think the mods do a good job and am quite prepared to put up with links being deleted on a general basis – they don’t always have time to check, or knowledge of those youtubers.

Let’s face it – unless the review is complimentary, they won’t get more freebies! Nothing different than car review journalists, etc. (but not particularly welcome on a forum such as this – in the way it is supported).

[clogsParticipant @clogs]

so we cant mention Google and Starbucks to name twooooo….JOKE…..

Moderators, I thank u for ur efforts…..

I'd be lost without this forum…..and a couple of others….

what the hell do u look at when ur eatin ur flakes I ask u….

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by JasonB on 26/08/2020 13:58:34:

Posted by XD 351 on 26/08/2020 10:28:00:

Another thing i was wondering is what if the creator of a video is a company that doesn’t advertise on this site ? Let me think now – I will pick one, lets say a U.S based machine tool company who made some excellent youtube videos ( i deleted the name so the moderators don’t have to – jk !) there is always going to be some advertising of their products in their videos which essentially is the same as a review . What about channels that are sponsored ? What if this video is bought to you by such and such which is a direct competitor to one of the advertisers here ? Will they kick up a stink ?

As I said on page two:

No problem with linking to UK, European or worldwide suppliers that are bona fide companies who comply with their tax, safety, etc laws does not restrict you to only mentioning our advertisers so you could for example mention Warco, Greenwood, ARC or Cutwell APT, Zoro, or RC Machine, Barrie's BT30 supplier & GHW or PM Research, Ej Winter and so on.

This would cover links to the suppliers directly or video posted by them or with links to them.

Link or mention? CoC refers only to links. Now you are talking about being ok to "mention Warco, Greenwood, ARC" etc.

Which is it that is banned, linking to or mentioning unapproved suppliers?

[Paul KempParticipant @paulkemp46892]

I think it is clearly established previously in this thread of being a case of "he who pays the piper calls the tune"!

Neil made the economic case in response to my questions on the costs that this forum is only viable due to the advertising revenue generated. Therefore if one or many of those advertisers decide to withdraw MTM will not support it as a "charity / good will venture" so therefore the "sponsors" have to be placated.

I do not personally agree with this stand but unless it results in the withdrawal of a large number of the forum contributors (in which case as Hopper pointed out) the forum becomes a far less attractive place to ply their wares then nothing will change this policy.

Personally I also think the latest comments extend the policy beyond reasonable limits where a content maker on YouTube may well produce a very informative or useful video with no specific reference to any of the banned suppliers but by nature of them having an association elsewhere it means anything they produce is now innapropriate for this forum.

To my mind this significantly changes what I perceived to be the objectives of maintaining this forum which I assumed was to provide a place for the free exchange of information and to promote the various aspects of the hobby to limiting what may be discussed or communicated as directed by its financiers. Understandable, common but not particularly palatable.

Paul.

[Bob WildParticipant @bobwild67557]

I’ve read the comments above about members posting on other forums as well as this. I indeed do just that; because as a relative beginner I look for as much help and advice from experienced model engineers as I can get.
And I notice a few comments about the shortcomings of the technology of this forum. My biggest and really serious gripe is the torturous way of inserting photos into a post from my iPhone. It is a real pain to have to email a photo to my pc, then rename it and load it into an album before inserting it into my post. That is four steps, not to mention having to go from my workshop to my pc, whereas in the other forums I can upload a photo directly from my phone  into my post. I’m sure you are losing a lot of potential content because of the effort involved. I would certainly do more if it were easier.

Edited By Bob Wild on 27/08/2020 00:41:27

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Bob I simply plug my phone into the PC and upload straight from the phone, just as I would with my Camera, no renaming, resizing, rotating or editing needed

EDIT just uploaded this straight from my phone with no wires attached so no problem if I wanted to do it from Workshop.

Hopper yes I have been deleting mention of creators over the last month as well as doing the same thing to other links as per ChrisB'S post  and have not noticed any drop off in forum activity. Infact as Neil says we are getting more and more new members.

 

Edited By JasonB on 27/08/2020 07:29:00

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Don’t you still have to upload a photo to your album first ?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Yes unless hosted elsewhere.

Although some forums may be easier to just use the "attach image" tab below the editing box they can also have disadvantages. One being that all the attachments are lumped together at the bottom of the post which can make it hard to follow as text becomes separated from the photo it refers to. Secondly on some forums you have to be a registered member to view any images added in that way which is not so inviting to the casual lurker.

Also with an album we often see people write "more picture sin album" which actually saves them time putting them all in a thread, means those not interested can read down to the next post and we don't then get someone quoting a whole long post with photos with a one liner at the end.

Edited By JasonB on 27/08/2020 08:07:57

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by JasonB on 27/08/2020 07:21:02:

In the interests of properly following your own CoC, should you not blank out the logo on the drinks-can-for-scale as it may imply endorsement of a non-forum-funder's product?

[I.M. OUTAHEREParticipant @i-m-outahere]

Posted by JasonB on 27/08/2020

Hopper yes I have been deleting mention of creators over the last month as well as doing the same thing to other links as per ChrisB'S post and have not noticed any drop off in forum activity. Infact as Neil says we are getting more and more new members.

Edited By JasonB on 27/08/2020 07:29:00

This is what i really wanted to get clarification on !

If you put up a link OR mention a creator who has done any reviews it will get taken down .

I just wanted to know exactly what i can do and what I can’t do – saves me time as I’m not posting things that will be removed and saves the moderators time , effort and hassle having to constantly hunt these things down .

Jason ,
You would have needed that can of drink after shaping those spokes !

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by DC31k on 27/08/2020 07:48:55:

Posted by JasonB on 27/08/2020 07:21:02:

 

 

In the interests of properly following your own CoC, should you not blank out the logo on the drinks-can-for-scale as it may imply endorsement of a non-forum-funder's product?

Have you read the thread? Try my post on page two and repeated again yesterday 

Edited By JasonB on 27/08/2020 08:18:15

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by XD 351 on 27/08/2020 08:03:49:

This is what i really wanted to get clarification on !
You would have needed that can of drink after shaping those spokes !

For total clarity I may delete any of the following which are all a form of link :

An embedded video

A Link

A typed URL

A named creator, seller, marketplace, etc

Yes thirsty work watching that CNC

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Posted by JasonB on 27/08/2020 07:29:27:

……………..

Also with an album we often see people write "more picture sin album" which actually saves them time putting them all in a thread, means those not interested can read down to the next post and we don't then get someone quoting a whole long post with photos with a one liner at the end.

Oh, Dear….

Promise I wont post any more photographic dissertations …

Joe

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Please don't call them creators They have become influencers. Simple as that.

They may be creative at times but are there for the opportunity to influence those that are susceptible (I’m not!) to that form of internet advertising – and gain monetarily at the same time. Perhaps they do not consider anything other than them getting freebies (like that they are actually being used, by the supplier of those free goodies, as a cheap method of advertising) and some small(?) commission on sales promoted by them.

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Photographic dissertations are OK, but it is the wholesale inclusion in umpteen subsequent posts, that must take up huge amounts of storage space on the server. Now that would bug me if I were paying for that (unnecessary) data storage.🙂

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Don't generalise, there are loads of makers and creators out there which do things I can only dream of doing, I cannot name them because I'll be in breach of the coc.

The content they upload is intetesting, entertaining and relevant, yes most of them do reviews and have sponsors, but what would you expect if one was uploading a couple of videos per week. There is time and costs involved to do something decent. You just need to choose what to see as there are loads of them now.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by Joseph Noci 1 on 27/08/2020 08:26:16:

Oh, Dear….

Promise I wont post any more photographic dissertations …

Joe

As said by NDIY, the comment was aimed at those quoting your very interesting posts, not the original post no matter how much text goes with the photos.

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

I would like to ban all three words – makers, creators & influencers as I think these words are being abused by the people who use them. In respect of these so-called influencers, yes they do indeed influence me – to turn away in disgust! Advertisers would be the correct term to use. I have to admit that I don't know what makers & creators should be called, especially as I ignore anyone who uses words in that way.

Perhaps it's me that's wishing to turn the clock back to a time when, eg, gay meant being happy & carefree!

Peter G. Shaw

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by JasonB on 27/08/2020 08:15:34:

Posted by XD 351 on 27/08/2020 08:03:49:

This is what i really wanted to get clarification on !
You would have needed that can of drink after shaping those spokes !

For total clarity I may delete any of the following which are all a form of link :

An embedded video

A Link

A typed URL

A named creator, seller, marketplace, etc

Yes thirsty work watching that CNC

Thanks Jason. This is where the confusion is coming in. The CoC in the first post of this thread refers only to not posting links and does not say members may not mention by name sellers or sites who are not approved by this site. Mentioning by name is not usually regarded as a link in the internet context.

Perhaps the Code of Conduct should be amended to make clear that mentioning the names of sites or sellers who are not approved by the site is also forbidden. Would save a lot of confusion I think.

[Former MemberParticipant @formermember32069]

[This posting has been removed]

[Bob WildParticipant @bobwild67557]

#JasonB – Apple changes the name of a file when using an iPhone to something incredibly long which makes photos in an album unidentifiable

[EmgeeParticipant @emgee]

Just added a link to an information sheet in a post and now instead of the link address showing as LINK it provides the page linked to details, that's a big improvement IMO as you can see where you are likely to end up at.
No doubt this has been introduced to help moderators with the CoC.

Emgee

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Posted by Bob Wild on 27/08/2020 10:13:50:

#JasonB – Apple changes the name of a file when using an iPhone to something incredibly long which makes photos in an album unidentifiable

.

A point which I have mentioned several times … but have grudgingly accepted.

MichaelG.

[Author]

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