Chainsaw : Saw sharpening

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

First an admission of naivety:

I know the general principle, but am not “practiced in the Art”

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My little STIHL chainsaw has finally achieved ‘blunt’ status

I hope to buy a new chain tomorrow, but will also buy a file in the hope of breathing a little more life into the old one.

A look at the STIHL file-holder tool suggests that there must surely be a better device !

Advice and recommendations would be appreciated.

MichaelG.

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Yes, I know this is upside-down … I wanted the text to be legible

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[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Right Michael ! Forget the new chain and the file holder ! Just buy the File – about £2’50 ! First adjust the chain tension to tightish ! Put the guide bar in a vice to HOLD it, making sure the chain can be rotate, ONLY EVER pull the chain forward ! You are an inteligent man so you will have a fair idea as to the angle to file at ! Some chains have a guide line stamped on the teeth ! Mark 1 tooth so you will know when you’ve been round.  File with a pressure forward / parallel to the bar NOT DOWN this will give hooked teeth ! Do alternate teeth till you’ve been round ! Now reverse the saw in the vice and do the other set of teeth ! NOW THE BIT MANY DONT KNOW ! Take a flat edge and lay across 2 teeth, on the top run. Just infront of the cutting edge is a small raised edge, This is the depth gauge and controls how much wood a tooth bites, too little and you will make dust, too much and the engine may not be able to pull the blade. The gap between your straight edge and the depth gauge should be NO MORE than 25thou .60mm checked with a feeler. If this is much less then file down a little using a flat file. After a few teeth you will soon know how many strokes are needed to do each one ! The tooth angle is NOT vital as to accuracy but they should all be more or less equal. As the tooth is filed back, it lowers the height of the cutting edge, hence the need to drop the depth gauges to maintain the bite of the blade ! Any questions ? Noel.

PS Bear in mind your working with a CUTTING EDGE, gloves may help but you know what it does to wood ! I HOPE YOU WILL NOT be able to show us what it can do to flesh !

PPSThe picture has now appeared You have depth gauges, since it is a small saw be careful dropping them, 15thou .40mm might be better to start with you can always drop them lower if need be. Good Luck.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Many thanks, Noel … that’s a much better description of process than STIHL could offer.

… much appreciated.

It’s a rather small chain; which is why I was a little nervous.

MichaelG.

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Further comments having studied the picture It looks as though the oiling may be lacking but that chain has been used WAY after it should have been sharpened It will take awhile to re do but is worth doing, if only as a spare. On reflection may be a new blade may be a good idea, remember to fit it the right way round, cutting towards the saw ! Just for fun check the depth gauges so you know what is right for your saw. Since I’m sure ther are others here who use chainsaws ! If a saw cuts to one side then suspect that the blade has gone blunt on one side, resharpen ! OR the rails of the guide bar on the lower side are uneven, first turn the bar over, if this has already been done then file flat checking with  a square BUT make sure the driving teeth DO NOT hit the botton of the groove.  Noel.

[dodmoleParticipant @dodmole]

Noel has it bang on, only thing to add is that foresters carry 2 chains and swap to sharp one at lunchtime and their chains sharpened daily will last for months.    My chain is sharpened once annually and probably done the depth gauges four or five times, – unless it mistakes ground for log and will need a rub with file more often and it must be twenty years old or more.

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

Yes. Just a file. You will easily get the hang of it. And do it lots – every time you use it.  Chainsaws a If I just touch ground/mud while running then the saw is most likely blunt. If you digging out a stump then it’s going to happen.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I’m absolutely no expert at this, but sometimes it’s helpful to watch a video too.
This one covers all of the above, with a couple of additional points too, one of which I’d never considered.

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks again, both … Yes, I’m afraid it got some abuse a couple of years back, trying to be clever and cut a root < blush >

As you mention Chain Oil, Noel … perhaps you could advise how much a little machine like this should consume ?

I half-filled the tank today, and it was empty after no more than 10 minutes actual work.

… I had to pack-up because the saw was clearly too blunt to handle the trunk of the old Conifer that had  partially uprooted in the recent winds.

… The story is a bit complicated, because a neighbour [with a bigger saw] had kindly done some of the urgent work, but then left me with about three foot of trunk; for leverage when getting the  stump out … all that is done, and I just wanted to cut it up.

Serves me right for not keeping the chain sharp … and I’m happy to buy a new chain as my penance !

MichaelG.

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P.S. ___ Thanks to you too, Bill … I will watch that after I have eaten.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

p.s. Michael, for some time, I don’t know how long, your original photo just showed as a placeholder again; it now displays fine for me.

Bill

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

That’s disappointing, Bill

… it was a jpeg 1484×1484 and only 756 kB

MichaelG.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

This Dremel attachment is great for really worn chains:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/324438586520?chn=ps&_ul=GB&mkevt=1&mkcid=28

 

Other than that, buy a quality file. Cheap files just won’t cut it 😉

And only file from the inside out or you’ll kill the file no matter the quality.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Sorry, jaCK … I skipped over your post and didn’t thank you.

Hopefully, I’m all sorted now … the video Bill posted is excellent; although he’s demonstrating on a much bigger chain than mine.

MichaelG.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said:

That’s disappointing, Bill

… it was a jpeg 1484×1484 and only 756 kB

MichaelG.

Not wishing to derail a chainsaw thread, but did your image immediately show up to you when you first posted it?
I’ve had it happen previously where is image was replaced with the place holder, so I just edited my post, replaced the photo with the same again, and it uploaded correctly and immediately.

Just curious, as I might try a different experiment next time it happens.
Maybe edit the post, add a word or two, and re-submit without altering the image at all, to see if a second try works straight away.
Only mentioning it as the problem seems to occur more often for you than me, so you’re in a better place to experiment.

Bill

[Bill PhinnParticipant @billphinn90025]

Michael, I can’t see much of your chain bar, only the bit up near the sprocket, which tends to wear the least, but the bit I can see appears not to have suffered too badly as a result of running an obviously dull, poorly lubricated (have you checked that the chain oil is reaching the bar and chain unimpeded?), and possibly loose chain.

Are there any areas further towards the bar nose where the paint has come off through overheating and the metal has discoloured? Is there any peening over of the bar groove, even slightly?

I’m sure you realise this but, aside from other undesirable outcomes, running a dull chain can also shorten engine life considerably, because when cutting with a dull chain there is little to no load on the engine to keep the revs within check. A properly sharpened chain will feed itself into the wood almost effortlessly and produce healthy engine sounds: a dull chain will produce dust (not chips) and make the engine scream ineffectually, while little progress is made in actually cutting any wood.

Assuming your bar is worth saving (and check also the condition of the sprocket), I would almost certainly not want to use that chain again even if sharpened well: the drive links will probably be worn, making for greater slop in the bar groove, which, even if the chain is correctly sharpened, well lubed and optimally tensioned, will accelerate wear on your bar and sprocket.

You need a 4mm round file for that chain (i.e. the new 3/8″ Picco chain you’ve yet to buy). If you can stretch to it, buy one of the Stihl part numbers 5605 750 4303 or 5605 007 1027. The latter can be had for around £11. I have both types in several sizes and they work very well indeed. The 2-in-1 type particularly makes the whole job of sharpening a chain to “cat’s claw” levels of sharpness astoundingly easy.

On the subject of stretching, when you’ve fitted your new chain, you must watch the tension very carefully in the first hour or so of use – a new chain stretches considerably, and can become very loose in a short time, which of course is undesirable for all sorts of reasons. Remember to allow the bar and chain to cool down after use before checking and adjusting chain tension.

Personally, I always slacken off my chains after use so that contraction on cooling doesn’t stress the bar or sprocket while the saw is in storage. An additional benefit of this is that you get into the habit of checking and adjusting chain tension before the next use, which avoids potential problems arising from firing up your saw and getting stuck into a job whilst complacently assuming that the chain is properly tensioned “because it was when I last used it”. Before starting, always assume it isn’t.

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

I wasn’t timing it, Bill … but so far as I can estimate, it showed instantly for me.

… but I suspect that might be because it’s in a local cache on my machine.

Happy to participate in a properly controlled experiment, if you want to design one.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ for the avoidance of doubt this was a reply to Peak 4, not Bill Phinn

[Bill Phinn]

On Bill Phinn Said:

Michael, I can’t see much of your chain bar, only the bit up near the sprocket, which tends to wear the least, but the bit I can see appears not to have suffered too badly as a result of running an obviously dull, poorly lubricated (have you checked that the chain oil is reaching the bar and chain unimpeded?), and possibly loose chain.

[…]

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Mea Culpa on most of your points, Bill

[ I would normally have italicised the Latin, but it’s not worth doing on this forum ]

To the best of my belief the bar is mechanically good, albeit the paint is burned in places … I will check, but not tonight !!

Regarding the Oil … you might note from an earlier post that I wondered how much it should consume: Given the price of the Oil, I am a a little concerned that it is using [or perhaps wasting] too much rather than too little.

As originally stated [and repeated] I am expecting to buy a new chain as my penance for neglect, and will practice my sharpening technique on the old one.

I would prefer not to buy a new bar if that can reasonably be avoided.

MichaelG.

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Edit: __ searching on Google, there is a surprisingly wide range of prices for the items you alone recommended [and all are high] … I will see what my local store is charging.

[peak4Participant @peak4]

I can’t see how it could be stored in your cache, as the screen refreshes when you post from the composition pane (if that’s the correct name for it); even the “Latest Replies” list updates.
Formatting and font change as well, so if you see it displayed, I suspect it was fully there.
I have the feeling that on some occasions when I had a photo vanish, it originally appeared or I’d have noticed, since I usually spellcheck my posts after submitting.
It was only when I went away to read another post, and returned to my own topic that the photo had vanished.

On your post where all four screenshot vanished, I’d have thought that you would notice immediately.

Bill

[noel shelleyParticipant @noelshelley55608]

Hi Michael, The main thing is that it is oiling, oil is cheap chains and bars less so, how long does a tank of fuel last ? Same as the oil ? 10 mins of good cutting Fine . Your saw oiler may be adjustable ? You can get special chain oil but for years I have used ordinary mineral engine oil (new ) 15/40 or so. 30 years ago I did much felling with a 125cc engine and 36″ bar ! Built 2 hydraulic splitters that would give 15tons force, one was electric on the 20Kva 3Ph diesel genny I also built – model engineering ? I would be cautious of power grinders, they can turn a chain into powder quickly. Not checked but 4 mm sounds a bit big for your chain – check ! Noel.

[FulmenParticipant @fulmen]

Oil: The chain and guides should be slightly wet. I like to test it by pointing the tip a couple of inches away from a clean surface and revving the engine. It should leave a thin line of oil.

I’ve seen chain lube gum up the lubrication system in storage, you might want to do a thorough disassembly and cleaning.

[peak4]

On peak4 Said:

I can’t see how it could be stored in your cache, as the screen refreshes when you post from the composition pane (if that’s the correct name for it); even the “Latest Replies” list updates.
Formatting and font change as well, so if you see it displayed, I suspect it was fully there.
I have the feeling that on some occasions when I had a photo vanish, it originally appeared or I’d have noticed, since I usually spellcheck my posts after submitting.
It was only when I went away to read another post, and returned to my own topic that the photo had vanished.

On your post where all four screenshot vanished, I’d have thought that you would notice immediately.

Bill

This is getting rather complicated with two discussions interleaved, so I am quoting you in full ^^^

None of my pictures that people have recently declared missing are invisible to me. So far as I recall.

I will check again when I can.

MichaelG.

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Quick notes for the reference of anyone interested:

I am using STIHL branded ‘Synth Plus’ chain and bar Oil, and Aspen 2 fuel

I am about to put the User Manual for the saw in my ‘Gallery’

The saw has only been used occasionally, and is likely to be used even less frequently from now on.

Yes, roughly a tank of Oil for a tank of Fuel … it’s a small saw and they are small tanks.

Perhaps the oil will be more visible when the new chain is on … I suspect it may just be vaporising in the heat !

MichaelG.

[noel shelley]

On noel shelley Said:

Not checked but 4 mm sounds a bit big for your chain – check ! Noel.

Michael’s bar takes a 3/8″ Picco chain, so 4mm is right, Noel.

A smaller diameter file than this will produce a tooth gullet with the wrong depth and radius; the file will not reach high enough up the gullet to get right under the top of the teeth to produce an optimally sharp leading edge. See the 3/8″ Picco 2-in-1 sharpener below for file sizing.

EtA: Michael may find this link useful.

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

Thanks for the link, Bill

I hope to be calling at my local stockist tomorrow:

https://www.charlies.co.uk/store-locations/queensferry

MichaelG.

[Michael Gilligan]

On Michael Gilligan Said

I will check again when I can.

I’ve done that just now, Bill

All those recent images, png and jpeg are still visible to me

MichaelG.

 

 

[Michael GilliganParticipant @michaelgilligan61133]

The chainsaw user manual covers several slightly different models

… Mine is MS171

MichaelG.

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