Chain Protection Sleeve

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

I need to sleeve some small (6 mm link?) chain so it doesn't damage things where it touches in a mobile application. The sleeve needs to be thick enough for useful protection but thin enough not to greatly reduce flexibility. Need it long enough to get 4 ft or so lengths out of it.

All I can find is large sleeving for the heavy duty motorcycle and plant securing chains. Nothing for smaller sizes which surprises me given the number of places that sell relatively lightweight 6, 8 , 10 and 12 mm link chains for moderate security uses.

The chain in this application is unavoidably a little slack so it will rattle. Firm fixing is via aero elastics. The chain and padlock merely provide a modicum of security against opportunist theft.

Clive

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

[egaParticipant @ega]

Such sleeves are used on recumbent cycles where there is a need to protect the chain.

ICE (Inspired Cycle Engineering) is a possibility.

[Brian GParticipant @briang]

Assuming you don't mean roller chain, how about using heat shrink tubing without shrinking it?

Brian G

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

ega

Bicycle / trike chain protection sleeves generally seem to be split with a velcro joiner so they can be wrapped round the structural tubes for protection if the drive chain should whip against the tube. Unfortunately the parts I'm hooking onto and running the chain over won't accept a wrapped protector so I have to fit it to the chain. The velcro joiner doesn't stand up to flexing and the nominal bore appears overlarge.

Brian G

Unfortunately heat shrink and ordinary flexible cable sheathing are too thin for lasting protection. Heat shrink is fairly pants at bending too. Tends to go into lots of kinks. Something I tried in a slightly different application as an emergency "night before we leave" fix many years ago on the firms money. It just survived a fortnight long field trial.

Thanks for the suggestions.

Clive

[Adrian R2Participant @adrianr2]

Not answering the question, but have you considered using a plastic coated bicycle cable locks?

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Please see if any of the following RS part numbers provide some inspiration:

668-1254

668-1273

668-1239

Something tough enough that works on the Chinese finger trap principle might do.

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Silicone rubber tube? This is fairly thick wall but might not be tough enough. Use soapy water as lubricant while fitting.

Robert G8RPI

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Posted by Adrian R2 on 05/10/2021 15:39:05:

Not answering the question, but have you considered using a plastic coated bicycle cable locks?

That's actually where I started but the available lengths just don't work out. Except for the ones that roll up like a flexible tape measure. The lock part of those is, inevitably, relatively large and I'm unsure about accommodating it. Having a large lock swinging around would rather defeat the objective. Would need to buy one to try one and its a rather expensive device to waste. Some breeds are said to be poorly engineered on the lock mechanics too.

DC31k

Very interesting suggestions. I think the silicone sleeved glass fibre type might well be up to the job. Fibre inner should spread the load so the silicone sleeve doesn't rub through quickly on a small contact area. Which is what happens if you use ordinary, thin, sleeving on a chain.

Its amazing what you can find these days from folk like RS et al. If you know what to search for. I remember when the RS catalogue was just a single volume yellow book!

Time to root round the "one day from RS I'd like list to get free delivery.

Robert

As mentioned previously the issue with chain is it tends to give a very small contact area where it rubs so silicone and similar thin sleeves don't stand up well. Thicker sleeving tends to do better as it compresses to spread the load but then you loose out on flexibility. Braided (and sleeve?) is probably best of both worlds.

Thanks

Clive

Edited By Clive Foster on 05/10/2021 16:41:50

[Nick WheelerParticipant @nickwheeler]

How about something like THIS?

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Nicholas

DC31k got there first. Same sort of thing as RS 668 1273.

I'm surprised by how many varieties of something I'd never heard of, until this afternoon, floating around.

And I try to keep up.

Thanks.

Looks like I'll be trying something of that ilk, unless someone comes up with the perfectly engineered for the job solution.

Clive

[DC31kParticipant @dc31k]

Posted by Clive Foster on 05/10/2021 16:12:39:

Its amazing what you can find these days from folk like RS et al.

Those popped up just searching for 'cable sleeving' as my mind went blank on the proper term. I have now remembered that a generic search term is 'braided sleeving', e.g.

https://www.hypex.co.uk/Techflex-Sleeving-and-Heatshrink/Heavy-Duty-Sleeving/Gorilla-Sleeve/

https://www.hellermanntyton.co.uk/products/expandable-braided-sleeves (polyamide and even aramid are available)

Another source for the siliconised fibreglass stuff is catering equipment suppliers, and as Nicholas' post above shows, it is also widely used in performance vehicles. My only concerns with this stuff are that it might trap moisture as it not very breathable and it might be somewhat baggy on the chain.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

DC31k

Looks like we have a winner!

The Gorilla sleeve is probably as good as it gets. Decent wall thickness at 0.05", 1.27 mm so it should take a while to wear through. Just need to work out the equivalent bore size so its neither baggy nor expanded. At the price per meter I'll probably end up buying more than one size.

The Hellermann stuff appears to be intended to be used expanded as protection for things like precision rods and the like. Over the years I've bought many similarly wrapped.

Fortunately water ingress by rain et al isn't going th be a problem as the open ends are well shielded.

Thanks again for taking the trouble to track something down.

Clive

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

I would have thought good old clear plastic tube would work. The type you would buy from local auto spares shop or hardware store.

Steve.

[bernard towersParticipant @bernardtowers37738]

Modern push fit plumbing pipe??

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

I'm not so sure about the braded coverings. They are good on hoses and cable bundles, but there is nothing to stop the filament moring apart. I'd be concerned thet the corners of the links could spread the filaments enough to be exposed.
Maybe a hybrid of thin wall silicone tube and rided nylon would work.
The siliconised woven glassfibre tube products are intended mainly for temperature protection. Most are not great for abrasion resistance or even repeated flexing.

Robert G8RPI.

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Hoses, polyplumb and similar flexible but relatively thick wall tubes are good at preventing a chain from eating what its wrapped round. But, of necessity, the thick walls constrain the chain to sweeping bends. They cannot accommodate the near 180° flexibility possible at link to link joints of an open or lightly constrained chain.

My application requires the chain to go make a 180° turn round a pair of relatively thin rods, perhaps 3/8" diameter, and four fairly sharp 90° bends. The 180° turns need full link to link flexibility and the 90° bend radius is probably too sharp for a chain in a thick walled tube to follow well. Only a braided or woven protector can properly follow the 180° bends. The thin silicon skin on the woven glass fibre braids might stretch enough to follow. Or it might not. Something I'd need to try.

A tightly woven braid will follow a sharp bend so long as the outside isn't sufficiently tensioned so as to open the braid all the way round. The Gorilla sleeve is tightly braided and, if a little oversize, ought not stretch enough when run round the outside of the chain curve to separate at the contact points.

We shall see.

A picture being worth a thousand words this is the application :-

Helmet bag on a Krauser K2 top plate fitted to my Yamaha GTS. Plenty of space in the compartment under the bag to hold the lock but the chain needs to follow the bends quite closely so as not to rattle uncontrollably. It cannot of course be made tight enough to hold the bag.

Lockable closure is already sorted.

Clive

[not done it yetParticipant @notdoneityet]

Lay flat water hose?

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Posted by not done it yet on 05/10/2021 21:43:20:

Lay flat water hose?

I've never actually seen lay flat water hose but it could well do the deed if orientated the right way and of suitable bore.

Good idea.

Clive

[AJAXParticipant @ajax]

Posted by Clive Foster on 05/10/2021 20:46:44:

Hoses, polyplumb and similar flexible but relatively thick wall tubes are good at preventing a chain from eating what its wrapped round. But, of necessity, the thick walls constrain the chain to sweeping bends. They cannot accommodate the near 180° flexibility possible at link to link joints of an open or lightly constrained chain.

My application requires the chain to go make a 180° turn round a pair of relatively thin rods, perhaps 3/8" diameter, and four fairly sharp 90° bends. The 180° turns need full link to link flexibility and the 90° bend radius is probably too sharp for a chain in a thick walled tube to follow well. Only a braided or woven protector can properly follow the 180° bends. The thin silicon skin on the woven glass fibre braids might stretch enough to follow. Or it might not. Something I'd need to try.

A tightly woven braid will follow a sharp bend so long as the outside isn't sufficiently tensioned so as to open the braid all the way round. The Gorilla sleeve is tightly braided and, if a little oversize, ought not stretch enough when run round the outside of the chain curve to separate at the contact points.

We shall see.

A picture being worth a thousand words this is the application :-

Helmet bag on a Krauser K2 top plate fitted to my Yamaha GTS. Plenty of space in the compartment under the bag to hold the lock but the chain needs to follow the bends quite closely so as not to rattle uncontrollably. It cannot of course be made tight enough to hold the bag.

Lockable closure is already sorted.

Clive

That braided sleeving is good stuff for many jobs but your need to stop it fraying (easily done with heat shrink tubing) and purchase the correct size, which is sometimes easier said than done. If you take a length and "shorten" it by pushing end-to-end the diameter opens up, sometimes quite significantly. Under tension, the diameter really closes down and it can be a problem to feed cables (or whatever) through.

I have some reels of it somewhere (maybe +100 m), but it may not be the size you are after. Laid flat (as it comes off the reel) what width are you hoping for?

Brian

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Brian

When it comes to a suitable size for the braided sleeve the short answer is "I dunno". Had some preliminary thoughts which I will look over tomorrow then will order a couple of sizes to try.

Compared to the inconvenience of carrying the helmet all the time when I park up, or having light fingered laddie lift £400+ worth of head gear, if I just rely on the aero elastics wasting a few £ on unused sizes of sleeve is trivial. Usually such stock comes in handy in the future anyway. I'm tired of running round with big panniers all the time just so I can park my hat.

Clive

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

If you put a tension spring across several links (in parallel with the padlock) inside the bag it won't rattle

[DMBParticipant @dmb]

One model engineering club has passenger cars on the 5"G, which are stored vertically in a shed against the wall. A chain around them is fixed to the wall, semi permanently one side and quick release hook on other side, the purpose being to prevent them from toppling over causing injury or damage. To prevent the chains from damaging the cars, the chains are in clear plastic tubing, maybe about 5/8"? diameter, as far as I can recollect. I think it was from either a DIY shed like BnQ or a small ironmongers shop, not expensive. As Treasurer, I've just rummaged this year's purchasing receipts but no trace so must be in archives, previous year.

[Speedy Builder5Participant @speedybuilder5]

Just an idea, why chain as opposed to steel cable – Stainless if you like ?

[Clive FosterParticipant @clivefoster55965]

Posted by duncan webster on 05/10/2021 22:54:51:

If you put a tension spring across several links (in parallel with the padlock) inside the bag it won't rattle

Gawd I hope not! Very little space in that under-bag compartment, its only intended to hold the retracted aero elastics, so one handed wresting with a spring could be fraught. Fortunately the size of chain I have works pretty well when it comes to cutting a length. Not tight, just loose enough to manipulate the lock, rather than rattle around slack so should be OK.

DMB

Yep you are right. Just checked on the website and B&Q do sell sleeved security chains. 4 sizes and 4 lengths at £ very reasonable. Quick connecting links too. Never occurred to me to look. I knew they sold un-sleeved chain and assumed that was all. Unfortunately the 6 mm size that I need is too short. Getting 2 and joining the sleeves to use on my chain would have been a possibility. None in the local stores or I'd saddle up and look.

Speedy Builder5

Still have the same protective sleeve issue with cable but main issue is length. Chains can be adjusted by cutting links, with loop ended cables you are pretty much stuck with what you can get unless you have the crimp sleeve tools needed to form new end loops. My tool only goes to 5 mm and I only have 3 mm plain galvanised cable and crimps to hand. Which will be silly skinny.

Off the shelf sleeved cable and lock systems are just too long. Shortest I've found was 1.6 m. Also not that flexible so the tighter bend round the chrome stay may be an issue. Crimp sleeves can be bought so DIY loop making is possible. If I had suitable size cable I'd try it and hunt for a tool I could borrow if it seemed viable. Making tooling for my bench or hydraulic press if a borrowable tool couldn't be found isn't impossible. U bolt style clamps for appropriate sizes of cable are surprisingly large and will be far too carnivorous in that shallow compartment.

Seemed lots of work when I have a chain that I've verified will fit adequately.

I mean "how hard could it be to find a sleeve" quoth he.

"Very" said the head gremlin with a toothy grin.

Hate "simple" jobs that go all difficult for apparently trivial reasons.

Clive

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