carbide insert tooling

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Ive been banging away at Myford going carbide with some enlightening results and an ominous DONT DO IT

but didnt explain why other than you dont need to and the Myford is too small to maul

Well in search of knowledge I found myself in the quag of carbide codes and associated mysteries

One sound advice was – dont buy the tool sets on offer – you end up with half the bits you wont use That very wise. Indeed frustrating cos out of a set of 8pce, it did not contain a LH holder – WOW couldnt find another to suit. Its like a car only arriving with 3oo4 wheels. !"£$£$""$^$******

So digging further I then found the EB market smothered in these set boxes, you couldnt buy individual tool holders (unless you got way up in price) not even used parts

anyone else noticed this

I suspect a conspiracy to flood us with rubbish and fake bits

you could waste a lot of money on this. you really could get trapped for our hobby market

anyone else found this

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

conspiracy to confuse?

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 16:33:31:

you couldnt buy individual tool holders (unless you got way up in price)

I would not say you need to go "way up in price" to get individual holders. name brand ones in say 8mm square may set you back £75 or so but there is some middle ground between that and bargain basement pot luck direct from China ones.

Many of the model engineering suppliers here cater for the hobby size machines that are commonly used in the home workshop and carry a range of Imported or even UK made holders that won't break the bank at £15-20 per holder that don't require any modification to them or the machine so can be used straight away

With the right insert there is no need to "maul" on any lathe and contary to what a lot of people say carbide can be used to take fine cuts. I've seen good work done on Cowells, Unimat and Sherline machines using the right insert.

Also thinking long term the smaller shank holders tend to take the smaller size inserts which cost less than larger ones so are cheaper to use than having to spend out on large inserts when most of the time you are just going to be using the corner and not the rest of the tools cutting edge.

[Joseph Noci 1Participant @josephnoci1]

Posted by brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 16:33:31:

So digging further I then found the EB market smothered in these set boxes, you couldnt buy individual tool holders (unless you got way up in price) not even used parts

anyone else noticed this

I suspect a conspiracy to flood us with rubbish and fake bits

you could waste a lot of money on this. you really could get trapped for our hobby market

I presume that the implication is that these 'rubbish and fake bits' you refer to are of Chinese source or similar?

I must say that I cannot agree with a statement so general in nature..

I have purchased a small handful of those 'sets' – some of the 10mm. some 12mm and some 16mm square tooling. I have found sets with left and right hand complements, in cutting tool and single point threading tools. I have purchased from Banggood, Ali-Express, and one or two other Chinese sources as well, and I have not been disappointed with any of the tools at all. Perhaps there may be one or two types here and there that are dicey, but I have maybe 40 or so different tools and none are bad. I modify them to suit special applications as well – for my small CNC lathe the ATC requires the tool body to be 50mm max in length, so I cut them down as required. And the steel used is very good! A hacksaw feels like it cuts the tool body the first stroke very nicely, but thats because the tool just removed all the sharp peaks of the teeth from the hacksaw blade.. The steel is hard through, not just case hardened.

I would not be too quick to speak disparagingly of these tools and suppliers..

Joe

[Peter G. ShawParticipant @peterg-shaw75338]

Suggest trying shop-APT.co.uk. A Glasgow firm with a variety of carbide tooling and a very helpful website. No connection, just a satisfied customer.

Peter G. Shaw

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by Peter G. Shaw on 11/07/2021 17:15:28:

Suggest trying shop-APT.co.uk. A Glasgow firm with a variety of carbide tooling and a very helpful website. No connection, just a satisfied customer.

Peter G. Shaw

I’ve used them in the past. Prices aren’t bad but still not as low as the auction site. I bought my last lot of inserts from Amazon though, 2/3 the price and free next day delivery. I’ve also just ordered some less than half price SECO inserts from the auction site.

[David George 1Participant @davidgeorge1]

I bought an Iscar 2mm parting tool for my rear toolpost and having gone through two other blades from the show at Doncaster and the Midlands Show in consecutive years so I got a few years between them of use. The Iscar blade is now over two years old and going strong on its first tip and is used on stainless, brass, mild steel, and tough steels as well. I am not sure what I will do with the other nine tips I bought at this rate. The cheaper style allows the tip to push back and therefore goes below center and the job climbs over the tip and bang.

David

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

OK Pete I got the site noted but not for small boys who need 8 10 12 mm shanks

 

thnx Dave, following that up with Arceurotrade, I assume that gtin 19-2 means a 2mm wide tip, they dont say this

Edited By brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 17:59:11

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 17:47:47:

OK Pete I got the site noted but not for small boys who need 8 10 12 mm shanks

thnx Dave, following that up with Arceurotrade, I assume that gtin 19-2 means a 2mm wide tip, they dont say this

 

2.2mm actual cut width as detailed here on ARC's site

APT do holders down to 6mm square if you look. Typical 6mm here

 

Edited By JasonB on 11/07/2021 18:15:51

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Right JB but wasnt shown on their main site guess I should have known

SLTBN Part Off Blade Tool Blocks with Part Off Blade

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

They only have one site so what do you mean by not on main site?

Also see my edit about APT doing 6mm sq tooling.

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

this was the link from another member

https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Lathe-Turning-Tools-Indexable/ARC-Indexable-Turning-Tools/SLTBN-Part-Off-Blade-Tool-Blocks-with-Part-Off-Blade

this was the bewildering link from apt

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/lathe-turning-tools-apt.html

no way to select shank size all seemed to be 20mm+

i dont know how to get to your page

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Posted by brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 18:29:57:

 

this was the bewildering link from apt

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/lathe-turning-tools-apt.html

no way to select shank size all seemed to be 20mm+

 

i dont know how to get to your page

 

From your link click on a tool that is shaped how you want and that takes the insert shape you want, I went with the one ringed as that's a good all rounder as one tool will face and turn diameter and they fit boring bars too so you don't end up having to keep a big range of insert shapes/sizes.

From there look at the code numbers given, 0606 is 6mm square, 0808 is 8mm square and so on.

SCLCR is Right Hand SCLCL is left hand but L/H get a lot less use in this style of holder hence why not so many in sets

Edited By JasonB on 11/07/2021 18:37:57

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Page 28 of this pdf catalogue explains about the tool holder shape and size codes which may help you understand

[VicParticipant @vic]

Posted by brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 18:29:57:

this was the link from another member

https://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Cutting-Tools/Lathe-Turning-Tools-Indexable/ARC-Indexable-Turning-Tools/SLTBN-Part-Off-Blade-Tool-Blocks-with-Part-Off-Blade

this was the bewildering link from apt

https://www.shop-apt.co.uk/lathe-turning-tools-apt.html

no way to select shank size all seemed to be 20mm+

i dont know how to get to your page

You select the type of tool you want then the size options are available.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by brian jones 11 on 11/07/2021 16:33:31:

…

One sound advice was – dont buy the tool sets on offer – you end up with half the bits you wont use …

So digging further I then found the EB market smothered in these set boxes, you couldnt buy individual tool holders (unless you got way up in price) not even used parts

…

I suspect a conspiracy to flood us with rubbish and fake bits

you could waste a lot of money on this. …

anyone else found this

Cock-up is far more likely than conspiracy!

Plenty of discussion on the forum about the value of sets: they don't suit everyone. Many prefer to buy individual holders as theydiscover need them. Others, including me, find it easier just to buy a set and work from that. Unfotunately sets aren't standardised in terms of holder or insert type and it can't be assumed one chosen at random will be exactly what you need, because it depends on what you're doing. The buyer has to think.

Perhaps the main disadvantage of carbide inserts is their bewildering variety. Industry need a wide choice of shapes and sizes to optimise cutting in all circumstances, and that doesn't make life simple for newbies. It may take a while for a hobbyist to find what he needs. One trick, look at the inserts and holders sold by Arc Euro because their range caters for hobbyists: if they sell it, you probably want one! Sets can include unusual tools: very useful if you need one, otherwise a waste of money.

I learned from the sets I bought. Rather than blow a gasket because some set tools didn't match my needs, I investigated their purpose – very educational, and after 5 years I've used them all.

Fakes are always a possibility – don't buy too cheap, and beware of 'bargains'. On internet sites it's difficult to tell the difference between genuine bargains because they're production overrun or bankupt stock, and counterfeits. In my experience, most Far Eastern stuff is satisfactorily mid-range and value for money. But I prefer to buy from UK vendors because there's less bother if a purchase goes wrong: consumer prrotection.

Can't be assumed products are all wonderful, or all rubbish. Country of origin is almost meaningless as a guide because manufacturing is globalised. Brand-names aren't solid either. The best you can do is buy from reputable suppliers.

Dave

[VicParticipant @vic]

I’m not sure if they still make it but I bought a double sided tool holder from JB Tools at one of the shows. I’ve only used it for left hand cutting but you can flip it over and refit the insert for right hand.

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Posted by JasonB on 11/07/2021 18:51:01:

Page 28 of this pdf catalogue explains about the tool holder shape and size codes which may help you understand

Wow JB 749 pages on inserts and tooling, what Ive always wanted

but its is a serious reference doc

pg 28 seen on the pdf viewer not caltalog – 50 something does indeed unfrock tooling

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

For what its' worth I've been using Warner HSS inserts for over ten years. I haven't slung one away yet. Using a credit card size diamond thingy they can be sharpened with a few strokes, they are very robust and in my opinion well worth the cost. Yep, sorry they are not cheap. I settled on 3/8" shank toolholders and the small triangular inserts and the small 55 degree (diamond shape) ones. There are two sources ….Little Machine Shop and A. R. Warner themselves although I have only used LMS. No connection apart from being a very satisfied customer.

Obviously there are those who will say that they are limited by their flat top rake, but I have not found a problem.

cheers

Bill

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Good for you Buddy, but LMS is in California and AFAIK Warner has no outlet in Europe

[Bill PudneyParticipant @billpudney37759]

Sorry, buddy, I didn't realise that you had an embargo on stuff from 'merca. Remind me to button my lip, next time I try and offer advice.

[JasonBModerator @jasonb]

Their long life as opposed to having to regularly replace Carbide no doubt more than covers the cost of international postage

You seem happy to buy cheap tooling direct from China so why can't you buy direct from the US

 

Edited By JasonB on 12/07/2021 07:29:31

[VicParticipant @vic]

I use flat carbide inserts in some tooling. The small ones I use for wood turning can be resharpened on a diamond hone. In fact they end up sharper than originally supplied.

[speelwerkParticipant @speelwerk]

Since a very long time now I use these **LINK**  (they are also available coated). Not cheap but used for almost al the work I do, in addition HSS is used if needed. All for a slightly modified Myford lathe 4 way toolpost which is fine for me because I have no problem if it takes a minute longer to set-up. Niko

Edited By speelwerk on 12/07/2021 12:57:39

[brian jones 11Participant @brianjones11]

Posted by Bill Pudney on 12/07/2021 06:58:27:

Sorry, buddy, I didn't realise that you had an embargo on stuff from 'merca. Remind me to button my lip, next time I try and offer advice.

No offence meant, but you perhaps dont realise the tremendous cost of postage from the states to the UK plus states taxes on top. This could take a $10 item + $20 post + $10 taxes. It makes the whole prospect of trade completely unrealistic from merca which is a pity, hope it will change dropping state taxes on export and changing US post monopoly

I dont know what its like if you buy stuff from the UK or EU – something similar maybe?

I used to sell stuff on Ebay and 10% to EU pre brexit. Postal charges wer much the same as inland post in UK and no taxes on small value items <£150. Thats all changed but I dont sell anymore on EB as Im hacked off with EB bad attitude and fees

BTW I have no idea how PRC is able to send stuff halfway round the world and sell it on Ebay delivered to me <£2

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