Cannon patterns, and Barrell castings

[paul hardwickParticipant @paulhardwick90870]

Hi i am new to the forum, and have always had a keen interest on making cannons, which i have made a fair few, i am looking for anywere in the midlands (pref EMids) that would cast a few barrells again pref in Gunmetal or bronze or as a last resort brass, also does anyone know a supplier of cannon designs. I did look at the thread of artilery in this section and the guy makes some lovely models indeed!!

Regards Paul.

[paul hardwickParticipant @paulhardwick90870]

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

From whats on the news from UK at the moment, I think you might be pushing your luck on any hint of guns-cannons,or anything that goes bang! Ian S C

[CirclipParticipant @circlip]

Although they seem to specialise in Cast Iron, try talking to guys at the living museum at Ironbridge.

 

    Regards  Ian

[chris stephensParticipant @chrisstephens63393]

Hi Ian S C

I have just four words to say to you in reply to your reply, “Don’t be so wet”

The day mental defectives roam the streets firing off toy cannons at people, we will know  that the lunatics have truly taken over the asylum.

What happened in Cumbria is unfortunate but it only equates to less than one days road deaths. You don’t have this much press coverage for those unfortunate souls, do you? 

 

chriStephens 

[Ian S CParticipant @iansc]

True Chris, But from this end of the world (NZ), it seems as though the general public get a bit excited over firearms and terrorisim, were as in most parts of the world traffic deaths are ho hum, and don’t seem so important some how. In fact cars proberbly kill more people than wars do. I think people/ govt., consider anyone making or writing about making firearms as dangerous. Can’t find the site now but I read last week of an author in England who was jailed for 9 months for writing and distributing information on the making of guns, I think he got off because he was not selling the stuff in the UK. Ian S C

Edited By Ian S C on 08/06/2010 13:20:18

[Ian AbbottParticipant @ianabbott31222]

Does anyone remember when Michael Bentine sailed up the Thames in a Chinese junk and started shelling the Houses of Parliament with a cannon?

A policeman stood on Westminster Bridge, leaning on the rail, watching. 

 

Then there was Spike Milligan and Peter Sellars drove around London in Milligan’s drophead VW wearing German helmets and giving the fascist salute to everyone. 

 

Or Bentine in  Messerschmitt bubble car with wings and machine guns, strafing a Routemaster. 

 

Wonder what would happen now.

 

Ian 

[TerrydParticipant @terryd72465]

2995 people were killed in the worst terrorist attack in recent history, i.e. the Twin Towers.  Which was of course simply awful.  But in the USA the death toll on the roads is around 42,000 (yes 42 thousand) per year, the equivalent of a Twin Towers every 4 weeks or so. 

 

Road deaths in the USA since that terrorist incident have equalled  more than a third of a million (actually just less that 400 thousand).  I’m not making any judgement or being critical, just offering a few facts.

 

I hardly think that a model cannon counts for very much Ian.

 

T

[ron grimshawParticipant @rongrimshaw76129]

I was looking forward to some, hopefully some answers as making model of cannons was something i would like to do, but it seems that we go off topic.

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Cannons are fairly popular amongst US model engineers, I would try searching on some forums from over the pond.

I did find some public domain plans for a cannon as I was trawling the web the other day ( from an old magazine ), but it was pretty crude and nothing you couldn't figure out for yourself. I'd quite like to make a model artillery piece ( probably not a cannon as such, something a little more modern )

A friend of mine did make model ships cannon but unfortunately we have lost touch over the years.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Just google' 'Cannon plans' its all there from killing deer at 300 yards with 1" dia lead balls, like a big shotgun to full diagrams of DIY cannon.

Several articles about cannons of various era's and what they look like.

Clive

Edited By Clive Hartland on 03/12/2012 19:48:33

[KWILParticipant @kwil]

Best of all there are plans for a Gatling Gun that fies 0.22 rounds (if you must)

[DustyParticipant @dusty]

If you are going to make a minature firearm, because that is what any form of artillery piece is, you must make yourself aware of the provisions of The Firearms Act. I am not trying to dampen your enthusiasm, but you must be aware of what you can and cannot do in respect of modelling guns, of any kind. Basically if it is capable of discharging any missile or capable of conversion so that it can you are in breach of the law. You don't want Mr Plod knocking on your door. A working model Gatling gun that fires is an absolute no no. Having been involved in shooting over many years I have some knowledge, but I am sure there will be someone on this forum who has better knowledge than me.

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

The key word isn't 'convertible' – it's the phrase 'readily convertible'
Like much of the UK's badly worded and poorly thought out firearms legislation there is no definition of what is and isn't 'readily convertible' . Usually it is taken to mean convertible by the tools contained in an average persons garden shed.

Anyway, I have a solution. Find a hardened steel ball from a bearing that is the right interference fit size for the bore, or bore the cannon to the dimensions of a suitable ball, whatever is easier.
Drill the touch hole as normal and then press the ball into the bore, right to the end. Voila – that's never coming out without destroying the barrel in some way.
Looking down the bore the cannon will appear loaded, which is a nice touch I think.

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

;A 'Click' and no 'Bang', just a twang!

Looked down the bore and could see the ball,

A poke and a push and there was a, 'Whoosh' and he was there no more!

Dont do it, even a ball bearing jammed to the far end will still appear as a viable weapon.

Step drill the bore in short steps of different dia. so that any attempt to load and fire will fail.

Even then, push an over size ball bearing into the muzzle, and it will not be able to be loaded.

Under the barrel at the breech end drill a hole so that it cannot be seen, the same size as the bore.

Then it is obvious to any person who needs to know that it cannot be fired.

Regards making a model of a modern artillery piece, there are some very good books with detailed drawings of 18 Pounders used in the 1st world war and also some drawings of a 25 Pounder. I think the Authors name is, 'Hogg' who is qiuite an authority on Artillery pieces.

Clive

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

It's not how it looks to a layman Clive, it's how it looks to the Forensic Science Service – I've gotten a pretty good handle on how they think over the years as I'd sometimes build inert or blank firing weapons for the military re-enactment guys ( my No1 priority being not to go to jail, making money was the secondary priority )

As an example I have seen ( approved ) ACW percussion muskets with a 90% completed bore and no hardened insert to prevent the last 10% being finished. The FSS view was obviously that the tools and skills needed to do so were beyond the hypothetical ' average man in an average garden shed '
I wouldn't have built the muskets that way myself, but I'm pretty cautious.

Nothing wrong with your scheme at all, technically it's better than mine – but it's not strictly neccessary. What you propose is like a halfway house between my method and the full on deactivation procedure required for live firearms.

I wouldn't make peering into the muzzle of cannons a habit by the way, but if you built it and you know that it's inert then I think that's fair enough. Excellent poem though

The full name of the author is Ian V Hogg – expert on all kinds of firearms – and I had his book on artillery. Sadly I had to sell 90% of my books before I emigrated and that was one of them.

Edited By Siddley on 06/12/2012 14:17:38

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Some time ago ME published advice to make an insert of hardened but not tempered silver steel, with an off-centre cone one each end and a force fit in the barrel. Harder to push out than a ball bearing.

Neil

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

Posted by Stub Mandrel on 06/12/2012 19:58:19:

Some time ago ME published advice to make an insert of hardened but not tempered silver steel, with an off-centre cone one each end and a force fit in the barrel. Harder to push out than a ball bearing.

Neil

Yeah, that's a standard practice, and a very good one too. If someone was thinking of making a full size model firearm then that would definitely be the way to go ( although there is a legal can of worms involved with that called the VCR bill – I won't go into it as it wouldn't apply to cannon and I actually don't know too much about the letter of that particular law as all the people I dealt with were exempt under one category or another )

I think ME has published an article about building a Colt Peacemaker and at least one 20th century artillery piece. I'd love copies of those issues. What I would really like the most are the blueprints for the M1 155mm 'Long Tom' gun which my late Dad served on during his time in the Royal Artillery, but that's probably a longer shot than even the Long Tom could manage

[Sub MandrelParticipant @submandrel]

Siddley,

There should be some 20th century artillery pieces in the digital archive from the early 2000s.

Neil

[SiddleyParticipant @siddley]

I'm a little bit tempted by that Neil, but it would probably be more cost effective to get the original magazines. I don't really have any interest in steam engines, traction engines, locomotives or clocks so I don't think I'd get too much else out of the subscription.

I'll check the index though, if there are enough articles on miniature machine tools and models of full size IC engines ( which I am very interested in ) it could be a goer.

Thanks

[jason udallParticipant @jasonudall57142]

having spent much of my production engineering designing machine tools to gun drill spindles..which have a crosshole at the far end… these look very much like cannon…Hope the many tens of thousandes went a problem under the fir arms thing

[Clive HartlandParticipant @clivehartland94829]

Jason, I think if a person used one in a Bank raid then they would be a problem !

It is where there is intent and the fact that a 'Firearm' has been worked and modified for that purpose. There was a situation where someone made a plastic gun with 2 shot capability and it was taken on an airplane and was only found by baggage inspection.

Also these 'Phone' guns that come from eastern Europe, not easy to discover except by expert inspection.

Clive

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