Can one buy pliers with parallel jaws that lock like mol

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

The Knipex parallel jaw pliers are excellent. Rest assured you will not break them with what ever force your hands may apply to them. Besides, if you need to lock them just put a cable tie at the handles and you're done. That piece of aluminium in those jaws will not move. As for clecos, there are lots of different types, some are threaded so you got a positive grip.

[ANDY CAWLEYParticipant @andycawley24921]

if you turn your head on one side hopefully you will get the picture which is intended to show how much grip is available

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

@Hopper
– It's pretty clear to me that the black ones are not truly parallel.
– The silver one are parallel but
a) It will take a LOT of winding
b) you wont be able to get it very tight (and if you tried you'd probably strip the thread quite easily)

TBH, I can't quite see how the Facom is really working. I couldn't find an explainer video.

@ChrisB
– You make me laugh out loud. Good to know that they work well, but personally I don't want to faff around with a cable tie every time I want to lock on something.

@Andy
– Made me laugh too!
The Stanley 85-610… I'm on the very brink of buying one… But have you tried shifting a large rusty nut (e.g. 30mm) with it? It would be interesting to know what the point of failure would be.
i.e. Is it any weaker than a conventional adjustable spanner/wrench?

From looking at it would would worry me is that the metal under the [green] arrow might get permanently bent, thereby rending the locking mechanism useless.

OK it's been a long day… please don't flame me for this… but let's have some Photoshop fun with this design.

1. Here is the existing Stanley 85-610 design:

2. Here is what I would have done with it:

The above looks much stronger, no?
Can't see the difference?

3. OK, here is an exaggeration…

==> I think I've taken it too far this time, but you get the general idea. Looks a LOT tougher now, no?

The point of failure probably isn't where I thought. Maybe some pin will shear first… but that was fun to think about.

Should they exist, which version would you buy?

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

No they shouldn't exist, it's a plumbing tool, if I want heavy duty I'll use a 6 sided hex socket with a 1/2" drive breaker bar.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by Pete. on 13/05/2021 23:21:26:

No they shouldn't exist, it's a plumbing tool, if I want heavy duty I'll use a 6 sided hex socket with a 1/2" drive breaker bar.

Spoil-sport.

[Pete.Participant @pete-2]

You can make a tool that grips 2 sides of a hex as strong as you like, the nut or bolt head will round off before the tool breaks.

[Model EnginerdParticipant @modelenginerd]

Knipex for the win! They are great for aircraft use, both for turning fasteners and squeezing smaller rivets.

Posted by ChrisB on 13/05/2021 18:20:29:

The Knipex parallel jaw pliers are excellent. Rest assured you will not break them with what ever force your hands may apply to them. Besides, if you need to lock them just put a cable tie at the handles and you're done. That piece of aluminium in those jaws will not move. As for clecos, there are lots of different types, some are threaded so you got a positive grip.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

The op makes me laugh out loud! Apparently what he needs has not been produced yet and knocks off all ideas given to help him out of his tight spot (what ever it may be as no specific application was mentioned)

Now he appears to want to redesign an existing design fearing he's too strong for the tool and is worried he might break it! That really made me laugh out loud!

[ANDY CAWLEYParticipant @andycawley24921]

Never mind a large rusty nut, what I can tell you is that with in the limits of my strength I have not managed to break it. I have used it on a nut of approximately 25mm and applied as much torque as my 100kgs+ will allow without and I have gripped the grippy thing with as much force as my hands will allow. I have not used additional lever arms. The spanner is still fully operational without any signs of headache that often afflicts adjustable spanners. There is probably a good reason they are only 10” long.
By the way the photoshopped images all looked the same to me.
For twenty quid you can have one on your door step to morrow, what are you fussing about?

[Bob StevensonParticipant @bobstevenson13909]

".. TBH, I can't quite see how the Facom is really working. I couldn't find an explainer video…"

………Well without wishing to be unkind THAT is your problem right there!…..if you don't have the imagination and 'gumption' to work it out then you are, frankly, out of your depth on this site, not to mention with the people who inhabit!!

……Meanwhile, someone please pass me that one with the brass lined jaws….I can use that right NOW!!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by ChrisB on 14/05/2021 05:50:17:

The op makes me laugh out loud! Apparently what he needs has not been produced yet and knocks off all ideas given to help him out of his tight spot (what ever it may be as no specific application was mentioned)

Now he appears to want to redesign an existing design fearing he's too strong for the tool and is worried he might break it! That really made me laugh out loud!

I don't know what kind of training regime one must undertake to develop a wrist strong enough to snap a 10" chrome vanadium shifting spanner, but it must take day and night dedication to get to that level.

 

Edited By Hopper on 14/05/2021 07:32:50

[Nicholas FarrParticipant @nicholasfarr14254]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 13/05/2021 23:05:40:

Snip

3. OK, here is an exaggeration…

==> I think I've taken it too far this time, but you get the general idea. Looks a LOT tougher now, no?

The point of failure probably isn't where I thought. Maybe some pin will shear first… but that was fun to think about.

Should they exist, which version would you buy?

Hi John, putting the locking mechanism aside, I've used many of this type of adjustable spanner very many times in various sizes in my day jobs and have only ever experienced one failure many years ago (apart from wear through use) and that was on the moving jaw, shown by the red line in the photo below. This failure was probably due to a flaw, as no extension tubes etc. were ever used on that spanner and a replacement jaw was fitted, and I still have and use this spanner. Further more, I think you will find the major moments of force on these types of spanners, are shown by the blue and green arrows, so beefing up the area you suggest will probably gain very little more strength. Many manufacturers have been designing and producing this type of spanner all my working life (locking mechanism excluded) and are a very successful tool (cheap versions not counted) I think the main principal of the locking mechanism is for locking the jaw at the desired width so that when in use, the adjusting screw doesn't unwind, which happens to the best of them when used, during putting on and taking off a nut on an adjuster, for example.

Regards Nick.

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by ChrisB on 14/05/2021 05:50:17:

The op makes me laugh out loud! Apparently what he needs has not been produced yet and knocks off all ideas given to help him out of his tight spot (what ever it may be as no specific application was mentioned)

Now he appears to want to redesign an existing design fearing he's too strong for the tool and is worried he might break it! That really made me laugh out loud!

ChrisB – Laugh all you like…. Then read the reviews of some actual customers:

1. "When I first got my hands on this tool I thought it'd soon become my favourite spanner to have around as the locking function eliminates the inherent flaws with adjustable spanners, and it would also be excellent for gripping stubborn bolts on my old car.
Unfortunately after attempting to loosen one particularly stuck bolt one of the pins in the linkage deformed and now it's nearly useless. Seems that it's fallen for the Stanley tools staple of poor manufacturing quality and cheap materials."

2. "With so much steel, I would have thought "solid". No. Mine arrived, I unlocked the mechanism, and it did not lock back again, ever. Lots of steel, yet, weak. Furthermore, there was no indication of the steel type (not Chrome Vanadium steel, then)."

3. "The disadvantage of an adjustable wrench is that it is not stable enough, so that it may slip around a bolt or nut, resulting in damages to the parts or even to the operator. This item has been designed based on an intelligent idea, locking the adjustable jaw in order to solve the problem. Happily ordered one, just when I found it on the Internet. When repairing my bicycle, I used this wrench for the first time and I realized some deformations on its jaws. The applied materials in the tool are of such a low quality that the wrench was damaged by a bolt under a moderate torque. It is really disappointing. I do not recommend it at all, if you are looking for a durable wrench."

So the above is evidence that all my instincts are absolutely correct.
I am curious enough that I may possibly buy one anyway, but I'm not exactly rushing…

@ Nicholas – It is clear from the design that in use, a huge about of force will now be being taken by the locking mechanism itself. i.e. The jaws will start with a large amount of force due the jaws being locked together, before the additional force caused by the user turning the wrench (i.e. to move say a nut or similar).

The good thing about a Mole wrench is that it is fully adjustable. So if you really force something and end up bending the jaws slightly, you will barely notice because you can just wind in the adjustor thread as much as is required.

However as other reviews have pointed out it isn't all that difficult to bend the mechanism slightly and once that happens the locking mechanism will no longer lock!
 

Edited By John Smith 47 on 26/05/2021 11:19:24

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

How about one of these old style wrenches with a fine enough pitch thread that you don't have to worry about it loosening? A DIY project…

pgk

[John Smith 47Participant @johnsmith47]

Posted by pgk pgk on 26/05/2021 11:18:34:

How about one of these old style wrenches with a fine enough pitch thread that you don't have to worry about it loosening? A DIY project…

pgk

The theory is good, but I do want something that has an aggressive actual lock. Just moving your thumb over a thread ain't gonna create and very aggressive lock. A super-fine thread either won't lock very hard or will be so fine that it might get stripped!

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

What you need is one of these. A King Solomon's Miner's Wrench/Hammer. You can hammer the bejillikers out of any rusty nut with the hammer part before undoing it with the toothed jaws that never let go. Can be used as a pipe wrench too. Failing all else, you can hook a hex drive socket up into the ratchet on the handle and use that too. As the wedged toothed jaw section is self tightening it locks on to the job under pressure of rotation. The harder you yank it, the tighter it grips. And made by Proferred for the mining industry so you CANT break it. Four foot of pipe on the handle will not faze it.

Either that or cut the rusty nut off with the oxy torch. Angle grinders work well too.

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 26/05/2021 11:10:08:

Posted by ChrisB on 14/05/2021 05:50:17:

… Apparently what he needs has not been produced yet and knocks off all ideas given to help him out of his tight spot (what ever it may be as no specific application was mentioned)

.

ChrisB – Laugh all you like…. Then read the reviews of some actual customers:

1. "When I first got my hands on this tool I thought it'd soon become my favourite spanner to have around as the locking function eliminates the inherent flaws with adjustable spanners, and it would also be excellent for gripping stubborn bolts on my old car.
…

So the above is evidence that all my instincts are absolutely correct.

…

A clash of cultures! Engineer's shouldn't have 'instincts', and – because engineering is all about compromise, it's unlikely that anything will ever be 'absolutely correct'. Expectation management is always required.

Adjustable spanners are good example of a design compromise. Strength and reliability are reduced in favour of adjustability. Adjustable spanners are a convenience, not best practice. In many workshops adjustable spanners are forbidden, locking or not, because they are so likely to chew up nuts and bolts. Otherwise, useful in their place, but no-one has ever invented one that's entirely trustworthy.

Open ended spanners are better, but they're inferior to ring spanners, and not all ring spanners are equally good. Still much preferred to any adjustable. Engineers generally prefer single purpose to combination tools of any type, because the latter are rarely fully satisfactory. Not many workshops choose Swiss Army knives!

Dave

[Anthony KnightsParticipant @anthonyknights16741]

Personally, I think this guy is a wind-up merchant who's extracting the urine. He has come up with objections for every sensible suggestion made by people on this forum. If he's that desperate and genuine about what he wants, he should design something himself. How about this?

If he replies, there's bound to be something wrong with it.

[paul raynerParticipant @paulrayner36054]

Posted by Anthony Knights on 26/05/2021 16:32:43:

Personally, I think this guy is a wind-up merchant who's extracting the urine. He has come up with objections for every sensible suggestion made by people on this forum. If he's that desperate and genuine about what he wants, he should design something himself. How about this?

If he replies, there's bound to be something wrong with it.

lol

[Andrew TinsleyParticipant @andrewtinsley63637]

I really don't know why people bother to get involved with this guy.

Andrew.

[ChrisBParticipant @chrisb35596]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 26/05/2021 19:44:12:

I really don't know why people bother to get involved with this guy.

Andrew.

So true!

To be honest when this thread came up again after almost a month, I thought he finalised his super unbreakable parallel jaw locking pliers….but he didn't, he came back with reviews to prove us wrong

[ANDY CAWLEYParticipant @andycawley24921]

Posted by Andrew Tinsley on 26/05/2021 19:44:12:

I really don't know why people bother to get involved with this guy.

Andrew.

Yes, it is rather odd, it’s as if he had not read my post at all.

[HopperParticipant @hopper]

Posted by Anthony Knights on 26/05/2021 16:32:43:

Personally, I think this guy is a wind-up merchant who's extracting the urine.and

And I thought he was a genius inventor on the brink of a world-changing patent from one of his other threads.

[pgk pgkParticipant @pgkpgk17461]

Posted by John Smith 47 on 26/05/2021 11:25:04:

 

The theory is good, but I do want something that has an aggressive actual lock. Just moving your thumb over a thread ain't gonna create and very aggressive lock. A super-fine thread either won't lock very hard or will be so fine that it might get stripped!

Make it up with a conventional, say m8 thread and I don't believe it's going anyhwere. Want it tougher? Then stick 6 holes around the circumference of a chunkier thumb wheel and use a bar to graunch it tighter. Want it more lockable? Stick a threaded hole in from the side for a locking set screw. Still not strong enough? make the back end of the head with a countersunk sliding hole through to a threaded hole and a selection of bolt lengths and lock it off there as well. Still not secure enough? Extend the thumbwheel thread all the way through the back of the handle and add a nylock.
This is a tool you can make yourself – the pic was pinched from a youtube vid where the guy builds up the handle from 3 layers of plasma-cut sheet brazed together. It could just as easily be make from 3 handcut sheets and soldered or screwed together with whatever additional fancies you want to add – tungsten jaws, hardened threads etc.

I'm out of this thread.

 

pgk

Edited By pgk pgk on 27/05/2021 07:26:41

[jaCK HobsonParticipant @jackhobson50760]

I'm thankful for this thread as I got some Knipex AND Maun gripper things for my birthday!

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