Can I afford to heat my Garage?

[ChufferParticipant @chuffer]

Thanks to Bazyle and Rod for the recommendation to use either an oil filled radiator or wall mounted tubular heater which seem to me to be the safest way to go to prevent the workshop temperature falling too low and thereby producing condensation.

As I mentioned in my earlier post I am in the fortunate position of having a fairly well insulated workshop but will be boosting the amount of insulation in the garage roof as this is relatively easy to do.

Just to show how easy condensation forms outside of the workshop in the part of my double garage still used as a garage (in theory) look at the picture I took about a year ago of the workshop door when it was cold and damp. Fortunately inside the workshop there was no condensation on the mill or lathe as the frost stat on the fan heater kept the air temperature high enough to stop the condensation forming. Like most garages these days mine has ended up as a dumping ground for all sorts of things including me using it when I need more space!

Chuffer

 

[mike TParticipant @miket56243]

Hello Steve.

Can you tell us where exactly you buy your Kerosene at £1 per litre?

The best I can find is £1.65/l delivered from Ryeoil.Co

Thanks

Mike

[SteviegtrParticipant @steviegtr]

Hi Mike. The company is called Oilswell. They are on Elland road Brighouse. Full details are

Oilswell

Cromwell house

Elland road.

Brighouse.HD6 2RG.

Tel. 01422 375555. Lovely couple who own it.

Forgot to say any amount sold. I took 2- 25 litre containers. As you approach the building they are just down the left hand side.

[wayne ollerenshawParticipant @wayneollerenshaw89933]

I built my workshop a few years ago and it was part concrete panels…ill put pics up as its easier. but its works area wise at 24 foot x 12 with an 8×4 shelved area. Condenstation was bad at first untill i insulated it

Before i insulated it the 5kw cheapo chinese DH was useless and the cost on diesel was to much to keep running at around £7per 8-10 hr day. It wasnt great deal better once insulated.

I now get Kerosene for 96pl but i have fitted a 2kw to the house. the 5kw is sat doing nothing now as i made and fitted a mass air heater stove.

 

Oh in the middle of all that i insulated part the concrete panels with rockwool. roof is 75mm metal clad panels. cost a fair bit but excellent. NO condensation at all.

the only insulation is on the back wall behind the lathe and flypress area. also behind the stove cladding. all gaps filled wit expanding foam. well most as i want a bit of air circulation still.

 

 

Stove is a good size and works great. the domed section is part of a 47kg LPG cylinder to give an idea on size.

It burns wood only and 99% smoke free for smoke free zone worriers. and will burn toasty all day on a euro pallet and half.

I have no condensation at all with this partly insulated set up.

 

 

[Robert Atkinson 2Participant @robertatkinson2]

Note that Webasto do not approve the use of their heaters in buildings. They are not DIY either you are supposed to use an approved installer.  The Webto might be les reliable but possibly because of the comprehensive safety monitoring detecting an issue. Also adding safety sensors must reduce relibility but leaving them out reduces safety….

The whole thing is not helped by poor information on the internet. For example this website:
https://nevertootiny.com/diesel-heater-safety/
Which says diesel hetars are safe but their terms an conditions say:

We are not professional medics or builders….. you should assume the content contains our opinions and are for entertainment purposes only.

Robert.

[mgnbukParticipant @mgnbuk]

They are not DIY either you are supposed to use an approved installer.

With my failed Webasto, the agent blamed faulty installation by the motorhome builder. As that builder apparently built over 40 mhs a day at that time, all with Webasto heaters & to a scheme designed by Webasto France, that doesn’t say much for “professional” installation.

I found out the design for the installation came from Webasto France after complaining to the Webasto stand at the Birmingham MH Show about aspects of the system operation (mainly persistantly poor heating of the bathroom), to be told that “it wasn’t a problem with the heater, it was the installation” & to take it up with the mh builder. When I followed up with them, they forwarded the installation scheme that was drawn up by Webasto France ! I ended up changing the van for something that worked, with a Truma gas heating system.

I tend to treat anything I read on the internet as being worth what I paid for it unless proven otherwise !

Nigel B.

[duncan webster 1Participant @duncanwebster1]

I use a balanced flue gas wall mounted heater. It’s only 2 kW, but that is plenty. No condensation caused. You can get bigger ones but this one was surplus after a house refurb. Depends on having gad of course. I daresay you could get a propane version, but propane is expensive cf mains gas. You can get bigger ones but they need a fan, so more to go wrong.

[Colin HeseltineParticipant @colinheseltine48622]

My garage is part of the house and has a large radiator behind the lathe.  I leave this rad fractionally turned on.

I have just been given a tube heater which someone thought did not work and was going to be skipped.  Put a plug on and away it went.  It is 60w/ft and is 4ft long, so puts out 240W.  Issue was where to locate it safely as there is absolutely no floor or wall space.  I do have a RSJ across the garage which occasionally gets used with its chain hoist.  I have slung the the tube heater on a couple of chains about six inches below the RSJ so it is clear above my head.  Plugged into a RCD and left it switched on.  Because some of the upper floors are above the garage the heat will not be wasted.  I will check it in a few hours and see what difference it has made.

 

I have a Worcester Bosch 30Cdi boiler in a shed down the garden which is used for a hot tub.  This morning the boiler had shut down because the condensate pipe had frozen.  I was given a trace heating wire a couple of years ago and this will be fitted to the condensate pipe before the next freezing spell.

Colin

[DiogenesParticipant @diogenes]

@Wayne Ollerenshaw..

..if you ever got round to sticking even a rough pencil sketch of the construction of your stove into an album somewhere or a link to likewise I’d be interested in seeing it..

 

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

Thanks to all who posted.  As usual, a lot of good information – and just a bit of controversy!

My take aways are:-

• There is no point heating an uninsulated shed.
• You can warm the person rather than the place (I do this to some extent with an electric jacket, but touching metal at 4 degrees and lower is no fun)
• You can warm the machines to some extent with a tube heater and taking care to cover them when not in use.  I quite like this idea, but it may be hard to implement, especially for my mill which is 240kG of iron and bolted to the bench.  I wonder if you could get a similar effect by running a current through the base?  (High current but very low voltage.  Not sure how you would provide that)
• The best form of heating is oil filled radiators rather than fan heaters or other heaters with open elements.  Gas is bad.  An alternative is a diesel ‘cab heater’ though this is controversial (and please don’t start that one again!)

I think, at the moment, I will suffer the restriction to (relatively) warmer days and my heated jacket.  To properly insulate the shed would cost somewhere north of 600 quid and mean a good deal of work (at the least playing Chinese squares with my kit as the shed is pretty crowded).  We’re currently in the process of selling up and moving (without any great success) so investment of that much time and money isn’t really on the cards.

Many thanks again, this was useful.

 

Iain

 

[JAParticipant @ja]

A bit late to this thread, as usual.

My workshop is one half of a double garage. It has cavity walls, a half insulated garage door and no roof insulation. It does not suffer from condensation. I would dearly like to heat it by a balanced flue gas heater but have used an oil filled electric radiator for the last twelve winters. I also have a wireless thermometer in the workshop which displays in the house.

If the outside temperature and workshop temperature are above 8C, when I am going to use the workshop I switch the radiator full on and after three hours the temperature is up to about 14C and rising. Actually working and using lathe/mill also increases the temperature. If the temperature is below 8C, it is an afternoon inside in the office. Given all this it is still costly. Heating the workshop recently nearly doubled my monthly electricity bill (gas is used to heat the house and for most cooking). Obviously I should insulate the roof.

There was an article, in MEW (November 2003), on a simple device to keep a lathe warm so proventing local condensation. It used a low voltage power supply drawing about 70W. It may be of interest.

JA

[Iain DownsParticipant @iaindowns78295]

As a follow up to the post, one of the reasons why I’m a bit concerned about working in cold temperatures is that teh documentation for my lathe (Real Bull 618A) says not to use it below 12 degrees.

I have of course but rarely (if ever) below about 6 degrees.  Is this really a concern?  Is it just a case of running it for a few minutes before putting load on it?  Or is it not really a concern?

 

Iain

[Diogenes]

On Diogenes Said:

@Wayne Ollerenshaw..

..if you ever got round to sticking even a rough pencil sketch of the construction of your stove into an album somewhere or a link to likewise I’d be interested in seeing it..

 

I see what pics i have as i had a fair few and should help with the idea. there are a few ways to do int and a lot better hear output but this is more than enough so i never fettled. it to gain more output.

 

But yes i do a build thread when i get 10 mins.

[Iain Downs]

On Iain Downs Said:

As a follow up to the post, one of the reasons why I’m a bit concerned about working in cold temperatures is that teh documentation for my lathe (Real Bull 618A) says not to use it below 12 degrees.

I have of course but rarely (if ever) below about 6 degrees.  Is this really a concern?  Is it just a case of running it for a few minutes before putting load on it?  Or is it not really a concern?

 

Iain

That could be a thing with my lathe. Its run from a VFD, so in colder temps it needs a slow run in for a few minutes, or set of with say 20Hz then inscreas slowly untill i can turn it on and off and its at full rev`s straightaway.  summer time no problem.

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