CAD – Target Enigma

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Haven’t tried the vertical wrap you’ve used but the extrude seems to work OK on this. did you ‘chain’ the ‘cut’ extrude?

IanT

 

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Dave – it may be as simple as just moving your plane with the text on just a little bit further out than tangent to the wheel surface.

I’ve no direct experience with SE, but I’ve seen similar oddities for corner case situations in Alibre.

[IanT]

On IanT Said:

Haven’t tried the vertical wrap you’ve used but the extrude seems to work OK on this. did you ‘chain’ the ‘cut’ extrude?

IanT

 

I did chain the cut Ian.  In the past I’ve successfully projected horizontal text, so maybe my problem is due to the letters being vertical.   I shall try horizontal to see if it breaks too.  If it does, probably means I’m doing summat wrong.   Ditto if you can get vertical text working.

Ta

 

Dave

 

[David Jupp]

On David Jupp Said:

Dave – it may be as simple as just moving your plane with the text on just a little bit further out that tangent to the wheel surface.

…

Excellent idea – I’ll try it!

Cheers.

Dave

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

As the letters problem isn’t a showstopper, I’ve moved the model forward somewhat.   In a real Enigma the operator had to change the rotor order, and had six to ten to choose from as per the daily key settings.

Therefore I changed the frame to allow the reflector and 3 rotors to be lifted out and dropped back in.   Almost sure to be too simple: German engineering will have had a nice release catch and maybe bearings too.  The rightmost rotor has to connect to a feeder box, and how that was arranged isn’t obvious.

Added two pawls to engage with the ratchets, and the axle needed to support them. The levers and frame are drilled to take coil springs, which I thought SE community edition provided in a library. Nope, I shall have to model them!

Back to the letter problem next, many thanks for the suggestions – much appreciated.

Dave

 

[IanTParticipant @iant]

I moved the coincident (reference) plane out to the cylinders ‘edge’ Dave – by setting the plane’s offset to equal the cylinders radius and then projected the text profile back from there, so there shouldn’t be any malalignment.  If I get time later tonight, I’ll try a vertical wrap using the same method.

Regards,

 

IanT

[IanT]

On IanT Said:

I moved the coincident (reference) plane out to the cylinders ‘edge’ Dave – by setting the plane’s offset to equal the cylinders radius and then projected the text profile back from there, so there shouldn’t be any malalignment.  If I get time later tonight, I’ll try a vertical wrap using the same method.

Regards,

 

IanT

I’ll give it a try next, fingers crossed.  I created an actual tangent plane, didn’t work, nor did David’s edge case suggestion.

Couldn’t replicate your horizontal wrap to work either: must be doing something wrong.   Watched a few tutorials and read the Solid Edge advice, and I think I’m following instructions.   One of the youtube tutorials makes it look easy, but no commentary and it’s so blurred I can’t make out which tools he’s using.  He’s in ordered mode, and I’m synchronous.

Ho hum!

Cheers,

Dave

[ChrisLHParticipant @chrislh]

In case anybody out there, like me, is using SolidWorks Maker edition, it too supports engraving or embossing on a wobbly surface. I have only tried it on a cylinder (analytical) so far but it looks as if other surfaces (spline) can be treated. Like Jason I didn’t need to create a tangent plane, an existing one through the cylinder origin was OK. Strangely the spacing was tricky. With equal letters and spaces, diameter times pi divided by 52 was close but Z overwrote the A. Had to do it by trial and error in the end.

Yet again totally failed to create a screenshot !

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Let joy be unbounded!  I think I’ve cracked it.

Ian’s coincident plane advice didn’t work, but it got me somewhere.  Like other attempts Ian’s suggestion, which works for him, failed at my last stage – the Extrude.   I wondered if Extrude is the right tool for this, and it isn’t.   Hidden away in the Add subsection of the Solids toolbar, there’s another tool , it’s labelled ‘Normal Protrusion’ :

It allows all the text to be selected, and then does a cut or add that works, hurrah!

 

 

 

 

Taken several hours to break this problem, and the answer is simple.  But only when you know how.   I’ll explore further, but this feels like a breakthrough.

Thanks for suggestions, all very helpful even if not spot on – made me think out of my box.

Cheers,

Dave

 

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Typical of CAD, different providers use different name for similar functions, or different functions for the same name.

Once you know the name to look for, things are much easier.

[Nick HughesParticipant @nickhughes97026]

Deleted as solution found

[IanTParticipant @iant]

No, for this –  ‘Project’ distorts the beginning & end of the Text if you go too far around the cylinder face with a larger font- but ‘Wrap Sketch’ works just fine.

Hard to see the ‘Cut’ in the image below (as I probably set it too deep at 0.75mm) but it’s there….   🙂

Regards,

 

Ian

[IanT]

On IanT Said:

No, for this –  ‘Project’ distorts the beginning & end of the Text if you go too far around the cylinder face with a larger font- but ‘Wrap Sketch’ works just fine…

 

Ian

 

Depressing news from Nick! Thought the lettering problem was solved, and it’s not.   I shall have to have another go.

Which version of Solid Edge are you using Nick?

I’m Solid Edge Academic, Community Edition, Node Locked, version 2310 (build 224.00.00.101 x64)

Font selected in the Text Profile tool is the default: Solid Edge ISO,  script Western.

Ta,

Dave

[John HinkleyParticipant @johnhinkley26699]

Without wishing to push this discussion too far off course, I came up against a similar problem (in Ailbre Atom) when attempting to apply a non-linear groove to the cylindrical surface of the gear change mechanism of a model sequential gearbox.  After a lot of frustrations and googling, I eventually found a solution using the “wrap” tool in Fusion 360.  Fusion output an stp file for me to incorporate into my model, which suited me well, as it was to be 3D printed.  I’m not suggesting that you use Fusion, but I think that Solid Edge also has a “wrap” command, if Google is to believed.

John

Edit:  Just gone back and re-read the earlier posts, which I should have done before jumping in with both feet, and wrap has been suggested before, without successs, apparently. Sorry.

John

 

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Just to repeat my post above Dave -SE’s ‘Wrap Sketch’ seems to work very well for this operation. In fact on a large diameter cylinder with a short/small text sketch, I don’t think the text would distort too much using ‘Project’ either. It really shows up with a smaller diameter cylinder and larger text sketch though. But ‘Wrap Sketch’ works in this case.

So is there another problem?   I’m using the same SE Community v2310 build 224.00.00.101 x64 btw.

Regards,

 

IanT

[Grindstone CowboyParticipant @grindstonecowboy]

Following this with interest as I’m also a (very basic) user of Solid Edge, and have previously wanted to find a way of incorporating lettering into 3D prints. All good stuff!

Rob

[IanT]

On IanT Said:

…

So is there another problem?   I’m using the same SE Community v2310 build 224.00.00.101 x64 btw.

Regards,

 

IanT

Ah, the problem is what happens after the wrap.  I expected to grab the text outline with the extrude tool, and it malfunctions. Red ring below.

Although Extrude fails, Cut Normal works, up to a point.

‘Normal’ allows letters to be selected, and, provided the angle from the tangent plane to the surface isn’t acute, up to seven 3mm letters engrave correctly onto a segment of the 35mm ring.  More than 7 causes a ‘does not lie on face’ errors.

Are you using the Extrude tool or Normal?  Or something else!

I managed to letter the ring almost correctly.  The maths calculating the needed letter height is wrong, don’t know why – circumference of ring = 110mm, so I expected 4.23mm.  By eye 3.15mm is closer, but it still caused a gap:

Spotted a nastier mistake. Appears the number of index holes wrong, which means the pins are bad too.  26 letters should align with 26 index holes, and there seem to be 27.

 

Aargh!

Dave

 

 

 

 

 

 

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

Progress so far:

• Updated the lettered ring, still wrong, but looks better!
• Added the pawl and lever that rotates the rightmost rotor when keys are pressed.
• Added the lamp bulb plate
• Altered the frame to suit additions.

Missing:

• Some way of turning the rotors in succession like an odometer.  No idea how to do that.
• How to fit the right hand connector box such that the rotor assembly can be lifted out and replaced withou breaking anything
• How the electrical part of the keys will work
• The plugboard.  (Which incorporates switches.)

Way ahead fairly clear, maybe:

• The key mechanics.

Thoughts on production:

• As mentioned much earlier, the electrical contact pins need to be sprung to ensure good contact.  Plan B was to buy some, but I think I can get enough spring from a simple arrangement of bent washers or squishy O-rings.  Means nothing needs to be bought in apart from the lamps and the battery.
• Even if I double the size of the pins, they’re awkwardly small and 208 are needed.
• At present the frame assumes it will be 3D-printed or cut from a solid block!   I think not!  Later, I’ll twaek the design so it can be made by bending sheet metal.
• Though I’ve kept “how will I make this” in mind throughout, the design may have over-complicated details.
• The idea is to 3D-print most of in plastic supported by metal.  More work…

Bugs:

• Everything has to be scaled up by x2 or so,
• The letter and pin miscount issue.  I’ve accidentally modelled 27, should be 26.
• Getting letters equally spaced around that pesky ring.  Apart from getting SE to do it, my letter-spacing maths is wrong, reason unknown.
• The ratchet angles are suspect.

Still a lot to do.

Dave

[derek hall 1Participant @derekhall1]

Dave,

I have never used CAD, nor intend to learn, but just following your trials and tribulations makes this thread fascinating reading.

A very worthwhile project to model in CAD. Are you going to make a “real” Enigma?

 

[derek hall 1]

On derek hall 1 Said:

Dave,

I have never used CAD, nor intend to learn, but just following your trials and tribulations makes this thread fascinating reading.

A very worthwhile project to model in CAD. Are you going to make a “real” Enigma?

 

Glad it’s of interest Derek.   The CAD model is intended to be buildable.  If I’m doing it right, parts made from the model should work together in a real machine.  Likely to need more work after testing.   Some components might have to be beefed up, and the electrical contacts might be unreliable – too simple.

Whether I make one or not depends on a health issue. I’ve been too poorly to work power tools safely for nearly a year.  An undiagnosed digestive problem that’s costing the NHS a fortune! Long list of what’s not wrong.

Dave

 

 

[IanTParticipant @iant]

Yes, I used ‘Cut, Normal’ Dave but I didn’t notice any problem.

The ‘gap’ between the letters is (I suspect) most likely finger trouble when you were typing your letter stack (which is how I assume you got the vertical lettering?)

Your ‘Text Sketch’ has to ‘Wrap’ to the cylinder circumference exactly, in order to get equally spaced letters around the rim (including the ends – the A to Z bit) – which I’ve not done & sounds tricky.  🙂

Thus far I’ve only had to change the font & font size to meet my needs but there are other text parameters to play with of course. I suspect there’s an easier way to do this in SE (there usually is) but for now I can only suggest experimenting with the letter & line spacing to adjust the wrap sketch to size – I don’t think you’ll be able to just dimension it – though there are lot’s of things I couldn’t do with SE just a few years back that I can do now.

Just a thought – are you using ‘Ordered’ ?

Regards,

 

IanT

 

 

[IanT]

On IanT Said:

Yes, I used ‘Cut, Normal’ Dave but I didn’t notice any problem.

I was using the Extrude tool, not the ‘Cut Normal’ tool.  Seems ‘Cut Normal’ is needed for cutting into a curved surface, probably because it’s a special case.  One that SE’s Extrude doesn’t handle properly.   Note for beginners, beware terminology.  Extrude has a general meaning, but SE implements it with two different tools.  The Extrude tool is a specific thing, and ‘Cut Normal’ another.  Loosely they both extrude, but they aren’t interchangeable.

The ‘gap’ between the letters is (I suspect) most likely finger trouble when you were typing your letter stack (which is how I assume you got the vertical lettering?)

Yes, not finger trouble though.  The Text Profile tool allows letter height and line spacing to be set.  I did the sums: circumference = 110mm.   110/26 = 4.23mm, therefore letter height=4mm and line space = 0.23mm.  Either I’ve got the maths wrong, or the logic, or SE doesn’t maintain letter height accurately when projected to a curve.  I’ll have to experiment!   At the moment, I’m assuming the mistake is me rather than SE!  Perhaps a ‘fence post error‘.

Your ‘Text Sketch’ has to ‘Wrap’ to the cylinder circumference exactly, in order to get equally spaced letters around the rim (including the ends – the A to Z bit) – which I’ve not done & sounds tricky.  🙂

Thus far I’ve only had to change the font & font size to meet my needs but there are other text parameters to play with of course. I suspect there’s an easier way to do this in SE (there usually is) but for now I can only suggest experimenting with the letter & line spacing to adjust the wrap sketch to size – I don’t think you’ll be able to just dimension it – though there are lot’s of things I couldn’t do with SE just a few years back that I can do now.

Agreed.

Just a thought – are you using ‘Ordered’ ?

Now I’m used to it, I stay in Synchronous mode as much as possible, only going Ordered when synchronous gets confused, or I can’t get it to play, which is rare.  I experimented with this problem in Ordered mode, and found Ordered-Extrude doesn’t work properly with wrapped profiles either.   Different error messages.

Regards,

 

IanT

 

 

 

Now I’ve got a workable answer I’m going to leave letters on the back burner for a while.  As it’s not bottomed out, I’ll have to come back to it.

Thanks for help and advice – very helpful!

Cheers

Dave

 

[SillyOldDufferModerator @sillyoldduffer]

After a dither about what next, I’ve decided to develop the lamp assembly.   In the original Enigma it supports 26 E10 threaded 3V torch bulbs:

 

I’m inclined to stay retro with bulbs rather than LEDs, even though LEDs are easier.  Don’t know why, but the German machine uses an special bulb – same as the usual bulb but with a flattened glass bulb.   My guess is the machine was fitted with ordinary bulbs until discovered they gradually overheated the plastic letter stencil above.  One cure would be to move the plastic further away from the bulbs.  As this would a costly mechanical change, with several thousand machines already issued, may have been cheaper to make flattened torch bulbs!

 

I also want to come up with a way of cutting the rounded E10 thread into a metal plate rather than using inserts:

Off to find out about E10 threads.  As E10 is shorthand for MES10, or ‘Miniature Edison Screw’, I bet the thread is Imperial!

Dave

 

 

[John HaineParticipant @johnhaine32865]

I used to work in a large single storey building with the ceiling defined by 3m girder squares with a fluorescent fitting in each square.  Used the old style tubes and when the new thinner ones arrived it turned out that they failed quickly because the connector was unreliable.  Ended up commissioning a large batch of old style tubes which needed the machinery to be unretired but was cheaper than replacing all the luminaires.

[David JuppParticipant @davidjupp51506]

Dave,

I modelled a simple wheel with the wrapped 26 letters.

Your 4mm character height with 4.23mm line spacing gave a slightly enlarged gap between Z and A

If I did the sums to another decimal place 110/26 = (approx.) 4.231  than the result was near perfect.

NOTE: Alibre has a setting for if Height relates to Font Height or Character Extents – it does make a subtle difference in this case.

[Author]

Posts